"Bedding" Dillon 650 toolheads?

[guywitha3006]

So I had a random thought the other day while trimming brass on my new to me Dillon 650. I notice there seams to be a lot of movement or slop in the toolhead in relation to the press. I understand that both machine and tool head are produced within given specs. But I got to thinking if any one had every "bedded" the tool head, like bedding a rifle in reverse. Use steel epoxy and very thoroughly apply release to the press and then put the steel epoxy on the press it in and let it sit for a night or two. In theory this should create more rigid connection which in turn would make better ammo.

First off has anyone tried this and willing to share their experience? If not am I way out in left field or do I need more sleep?

[VHoward]

I've never thought of it. Then, I've never had any problems with any ammo I made on my XL650 being inaccurate either.

[guywitha3006]

I just got my 650 set up this week and thought it might affect trim lengths specifically. Have not had a chance to actually load any ammo on it yet. I had some variation but it could have been from different headstamps.


I've never thought of it. Then, I've never had any problems with any ammo I made on my XL650 being inaccurate either.

[too many things]

that is what the set screws are for and yes you need more sleep

[VHoward]

I seem to remember someone offering a shim to put under the OEM toolhead in the slot to take up the tiny bit of slack. They also offered custom toolheads that had the tab of the correct thickness. I haven't seen it in a while because they wanted too much for their product and it wasn't really necessary. Correct set up of your dies is sufficient. I haven't found any set screws that hold my toolheads in place.

[jmorris]

If you loose sleep over it, just install helicoils into the holes in the tool head where the pins locate it. This will allow you to use bolts to hold it in place and draw it up against the press casting.


Or you could just realize that it does not take much force to over come the weight of the tool head, so the "slop" is taken out by things like the powder measure, size die, seat and/or crimp die.

The Dillon trimmer sizes the case at the same time they trim, it is the force of sizing that keeps the case from spinning while being cut, not going to have any "slop" there either.

[guywitha3006]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have loading on a Hornady LNL AP for the last few years and there was no slop in that set up because there is no removeable toolhead. However since there is no removeable tool head it made trimming 300 Blackout nearly impossible because there was no where for the brass chips to go. So when I saw a deal on the 650 I jumped on it and added a GSI ported toolhead right away and love it. Now I just need my case feed plates to really take advantage of the system, should be here tomorrow according to Dillon tracking.

[nicholst55]

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1333

[dudel]

There might be some "slop" in the toolhead mounting to the case; but the toolhead stops at the very same point every time (relative to the frame) when the ram is up and the brass is in the die.

If you bed the toolhead, you're just making it harder to change out, and adding stress to the bedding material as brass moves up and down in the die.

You need more sleep! :bigsmyl2:

[guywitha3006]

Sleep ... I think I remember that. My wife is 9 months pregnant so sleep is as prevalent as it once was. Maybe in a few months I'll catch up on sleep and will stop having crazy ideas about how to "improve" things....Big Maybe there. :shock:


There might be some "slop" in the toolhead mounting to the case; but the toolhead stops at the very same point every time (relative to the frame) when the ram is up and the brass is in the die.

If you bed the toolhead, you're just making it harder to change out, and adding stress to the bedding material as brass moves up and down in the die.

You need more sleep! :bigsmyl2:

[claudesapp]

Does a little bit of play help self-align everything, especially since four or five things need to line up at the same time? I always figured it tops out in the same place every time, so a little side to side play just keeps things moving along smoothly.

[dudel]

Sleep ... I think I remember that. My wife is 9 months pregnant so sleep is as prevalent as it once was. Maybe in a few months I'll catch up on sleep and will stop having crazy ideas about how to "improve" things....Big Maybe there. :shock:

Congrats on the new crumb crusher. I'm told that after a few years, they can be trained into excellent brass retrievers!

[guywitha3006]

Thanks dudel, hoping for a good retriever, but a sorter would be even better lol!


Congrats on the new crumb crusher. I'm told that after a few years, they can be trained into excellent brass retrievers!

[VHoward]

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1333
Those prices are competitive. Thanks for the link.

[country gent]

There are several things to consider here, in bedding rifles compared to the press tool head. Rifles are bedded to tighten up the fit of action to stock an area that isnt often disturbed and needs to be supported accuratly. It can be tight ( requiring blows to remove action from bedding because it dosnt happen often. It is recomended to release tension on bedding when not in use for long periods to reduce strain or compression. When bedding the tool head to the press it would have to be done so that bedding was only on bottom of tool head to maintain alighnment and squarness. Any on top surfaces could and would induce issues as to squareness and compression of material could also induce issues. Most bedding materials fail due to flexing and or compression forces so the basic press operation of pushing and pulling would be hard on its integrety. On the 650 you need some clearence for the tool head to be installed and removed easily. Bedding to remove this would require more force and possibly beating the tool head in and out. The cut outs upper surfaces are machined square and true to the ram, under force of the operation the tool head seats to this surface square and true to the ram. Look at the dies used by bench rest shooters in small arbor presses where eveything floats and the accuracy of ammo. One of the reasons for the Co-ax presses reputation for being so accurate is the float that is allowed in die and shell holder allowing for alighnment. Maybe set up and indicator to the tool head and track its "play" to see not only how much but if it repeats. It it lifts to .010 every time under pressures of operation and always .010 then the paly isnt an issue.

[jmorris]

Sleep ... I think I remember that. My wife is 9 months pregnant so sleep is as prevalent as it once was. Maybe in a few months I'll catch up on sleep...

If that is not wishful thinking, I don't know what is.

[StratsMan]

So I had a random thought the other day while trimming brass on my new to me Dillon 650.

First off has anyone tried this and willing to share their experience? If not am I way out in left field or do I need more sleep?

Glad you're happy with your "new to you" 650, Guy.... [smilie=s:

The link provided earlier to a "clamped" tool head is similar to one I found on FleaBay for my 550. Instead of pins, there are screws that pull the tool head up tight against the frame. Not that they really need it: these aftermarket CNC tool heads are a much closer fit that the die cast heads that Dillon sells... As others have opined, I think the sizing/seating process pushes the tool head up tight against the top of the frame.. could it be off by a couple thousandths from one stroke to another??? Maybe... can it drift in/out a few thousandths from stroke to stroke??? I expect they do... does clamping in place reduce that??? Likely, yes.... Does it matter to my plinking ammo??? Not a bit... Does it make me feel better about myself??? Yes, I admit it does...

Haven't seen a listing for them recently, tho....

[guywitha3006]

Stratsman, I love the press and hopefully will have feed plates to try out the case feeder tomorrow (assuming my kid hasn't decided to have a birthday tomorrow, fair trade if it does though lol). I have have caliber kits for 233/9mm right now. It will probably set up for brass processing for a while yet...lots of unprocessed 223 I'm getting sick of seeing in the "raw" stage.

JMorris....you mean kids don't lay quietly and smile and fall sound asleep, and stay that way all night, like all the diaper commercials...I think I need to have a chat with my wife, lol.

[guywitha3006]

Country gent, I guess I never thought of the tool head as being square to the press and designed that way. Just saw movement while using and got to thinking...I know sometimes a dangerous thing.

[jmorris]

JMorris....you mean kids don't lay quietly and smile and fall sound asleep, and stay that way all night, like all the diaper commercials...I think I need to have a chat with my wife, lol.

Only after they have kept you up all night.

Learn to nap with them pretty quick, if your going to be the one taking care of them.

[David2011]

Here's a tip from the Dillon manual. I may not have it verbatim but it's close enough. With your dies adjusted, loosen the locking nuts on the dies and cases run through them until you have all positions filled. With the stage in the raised position snug all of the lock nuts. That lets the dies float to their best centered position within the tolerances of the threads of the toolhead and dies. This can really help if you've been catching the mouths of cases on the sizing die and helps bullet runout as well..

David

[country gent]

When the little one gets older babysit with a mountian dew and snickers bar. He will run at full speed for 45 mins to n hour then curl up and sleep for 4 or so. LOL. Seriously enjoy and savor every moment you can with them. My youngest is now 22. I dont know where the time has went.

[quasi]

I believe David Tubb recommends putting set screws in the head of the Dillon 550 to take the play out of the turret for loading ammo for long range rifle shooting.

[Walstr]

I 'bumped' the underside of my tool head[s] with a center punch to slightly upset the aluminum. Needs 'rebumping' every few years. Although may not be necessary, but it cured my anguish.

[jmorris]

I suppose you could install ball detent set screws to accomplish the same thing (from below), as the Walstr suggests. Being spring loaded the mod would be quite long lasting.

[Dragonheart]

If you want a better OAL first start with a milled toolhead from
Whidden Gun Works whiddengunworks.com then install helicoils in the toolhead so it can be screwed down or
Whidden will do this for you.