What defines hard lube.

[oldskeetshooter]

Good evening. I, have only been casting centerfire for a couple of years. I purchased a used lyman sizer with a bunch of goodies. The thing came with 20+ sticks of various kinds of lube. I finally ran out and am seeking some expert advise on, primarily, handgun lube recipes. Some of the lubes I have tried are so soft they almost run, or sag, at room temps. Some are so hard the heater has to be on for an hour or so, 130+ degrees, before I can start sizing. I have tried, Lyman orange and moly, Blue Angel, Red Angel, some old black stuff from IPCO, some white lube in plain brown paper and some yellow stuff in plain brown paper. Most of my handgun shooting is WW alloys anywhere from 750 to 1000 fps. Some .357 and .44s are quite a bit hotter. The Red Angel does not seem to do well at lower pressures, pretty much the same for Blue angel. Blue angel works quite well in .357 and .44 mag hotter loads. The Lyman Super Moly seems to do well in the lower pressure,.45 ACP and .38 Special stuff, but not so well in high pressure loads. I wish I could give more info on the "plain brown wrapper" stuff. I am guessing that the yellow is primarily bees wax, does not need a heater and the white, very very, hard, some type of lithium or paraffin stuff.

I don't mind using the sizer heater, but not at the temps for, say, red angel or this white hard stuff. Could one of you kind folks sort of "steer" me toward a couple of recipes. One for hotter 357 and 44 mag loads and one for lower pressure target loads. As the thread title indicates, I don't know what is considered, hard, soft or medium. I am in Georgia where it does get hot and some of these softer lubes tend to run pretty bad.

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Bill

[pjames32]

I use White Label lubes. Carnuba Red is good for most loads, requires a little heat and is cheap enough I don't make lube anymore. Go on their web site. The y have good descriptions and will send you samples to try.
PJ

[fryboy]

hard soft ....eh .... hard needs heat and soft doesnt ( easy peasy ;) ) you can control it if you've a mind ( well... at least with most known recipes ) a lil more wax makes it harder ( and there's varying kinds of waxes aka high melt temp low melt temp etc ) or a lil more oil/grease makes it softer
love the " some old black stuff from IPCO, some white lube in plain brown paper and some yellow stuff in plain brown paper. " lolz guessing that the most common lube is some variation of the nra 50/50 formula ( smell like alox ? an unmistakable odor )
odd that the hard lube didnt do well at the lower velocities , most often hard lubes do well at either end of the spectrum and not so well in the middle
one of my fav's is felix lube or more specifically FWWFL , again a lil more wax/less oil makes it harder or a lil more oil/less wax makes it softer but around 60% beeswax and 40% lithium grease should get you where you want to go ( maybe add some carnuba wax in minute quantities )

[oldskeetshooter]

I kind of figured that there was no "real" definition of hard lube. Some of the stuff flowed quite well in a 80 degree basement. During the winter, not so well at 50-60 degrees. Un-processed beeswax is available at no cost, with the exception a little sting here and there. Lanolin, baby oil and castor oil are common items, here in the country. I also have plenty of moly and lithium based lubes for the farm equipment. I don't know if the synthetic gear lubes are useable, as synthetics and dinosaur stuff don't seem to mix real well. I will try a batch of Felix to see what happens. I may have to harden it just a tad.

Is paraffin necessary for hardening? Add more beeswax or some carnauba for hardening. I don't want to make up a sure fire recipe and the mess it up by hardening it too much.

[osteodoc08]

Give Randyrat a shout and try his Tac X (He's a memeber here). Its a great lube for handguns and I have been using it exclusively for about a year now in everythign from 9, 40, 45 in semiautos and 38/357, 41 mag and 45colt in my revolvers and lever guns. It has worked well for midvelocity rifle as well in my 45/70's.

Its cheaper for me to buy from him than it is to buy components and make my own.

[fryboy]

You're correct about some synthetics not umm blending well with dinosaur stuff,oddly some do lolz,suggest making the fwwfl which is basic Felix with carnuba added,let it cool and see how it feels to you, on regular days it's pretty decent, on these days of hades I have here I add a bit more wax ,usually beeswax , one of the beauties about Felix and most other lubes is that one can mix up the percentages a bit and still have a decent lube ( within reason that is )
While paraffin comes in various melt temp designations it has it's own problems which to me out weigh the benefits ,it along with many other things however can be made to work ,a general rule is the less demanding the load the more various things work,Felix has worked well across the spectrum for me ( including fairly smoking Lil 22 calibers ) ,on threads like this I really miss geargnasher's input ( I'm a mere student lolz )

[oldskeetshooter]

I appreciate all of the info. I have all the ingredients, on hand, to mix up a small batch of Felix. Randyrat was gracious enough to PM me and ask if I wanted some samples. Of course, I said yes. He definitely knows what customer service is about. And yes, the brown paper wrapper lubes did smelled like Alox. Since my, pseudo, retirement I find myself getting my priorities more in order. First priority was building a 200 yard range, in the back yard. Now, learning more about casting and sizing boolits is on top of my list, so I can make good use of the range.

Them store bought projectiles cost too much. I have to learn to make my own stuff, now that I am "On a fixed income" (I always wanted to say that).

Again guys, thanks for all of the info.
Bill

[Elkins45]

Some define hard lube as one needing a heater. Me too in most cases but I also think of a lube as hard if you can store bullets touching each other and not have them pull the lube out of the neighbor's groove.

[303Guy]

odd that the hard lube didn't do well at the lower velocities , most often hard lubes do well at either end of the spectrum and not so well in the middle
I wonder whether the hard lube at the lower end stays put while at the top end flings out at the muzzle while in the middle only partially flings out leaving the boolit unbalanced?


Is paraffin necessary for hardening? Add more beeswax or some carnauba for hardening. I made the observation that Johnson paste wax uses carnauba and micro-crystalline wax to give a hard and durable finish. It has a high melting point for a wax. So, I'm figuring that micro would be a better choice than paraffin wax for hardening a lube and providing it with better lube properties. My order only arrived yesterday so I have no tests to back up my figuring. Things to do this weekend. 8-)