1st At PC, need some help

[rosewood]

Just began PC'ing and haven't loaded anything yet. I have read through several post on PC'ing and was unable to find my answers as there are just too many post to wade through. I am hoping you PC'ing experts can shed some light on my problems.

I coated some a few weeks back with HF red using the black air soft BB's, got pretty good coverage. Tried again last night and for some reason, didn't get very good coverage. I left that powder in the bowl with lid for the last few weeks. Trying to see what I did wrong. On the same batch of boolits, I used some Blue a friend gave me that came from Smokey and it covered well, so don't think the boolits were oily or anything, so believe the problem had to be in the HF red (or me). I did have a lot of powder and BBs in the tub with the HF red and very little in the Blue, would too much powder in the bowl cause it to not stick very well? Too much for static charge? Do the BBs have to be replaced routinely or just keep using them? I tried a bit of HF red and BBs in a ziplock bag and it was maybe a bit better but not as good as the first time I used the HF red in the cool whip bowl.

Suggestions?

I was picking up with nitrile gloves but saw where others recommended using forceps or hemostats. Reckon PC'ing the tip of those tools would help when retrieving boolits out of the mix?

Thanks,

Rosewood - PC'er in training

[kbstenberg]

This is just my take on your situation.
I also use more BB's and powder in my shaking cont. than most. But once I pick the bullet out of the container I tap the forsips to knock any excess powder off of the bullet.
Some days with the changing humidity powder just doesn't stick as good. If you remember what did the coating look like before baking? What did it look like after? That will help find what happened.

[Beagle333]

I can do the shake-n-bake, and I'm not the best at it, but I have found that you don't want too much powder. That will hinder the coverage. Add more powder as needed instead of loading it up all at first. Secondly, shake the heck out of it. Swirling doesn't seem to get the job done. Smoke's blue powders just seem to want to get on the boolits, so you have a good choice for it. And I have done it with HF red successfully too. But I have to keep remembering to shake it! And good!! BB's never need to be replaced. I use smooth-jawed needle nose hobby pliers to pick mine up, but I do dip the tips in the powder to coat them before picking up boolits.

Good luck! :cool:

[Dragonheart]

I agree with Beagle's post and would add; the quality of the powder makes a difference as most definately the humidity since you are depending on building a static charge. The dryer the conditions the better the static charge. Preheating the bullets to 200 degrees helps in a humid environment, I know because I live on the Gulf Coast. But don't go much over 200 as the powder will melt, so an accurate thermometer is a must. Once the bullets are coated I use self closing tweezers to move the bullets to my silicon mat covered trays. I picked up the tweezers at Harbor Freight and ground down the nose so I can grab the bullet between the bands, which leaves no mark on the bullet.
145642

[rosewood]

I am betting the aggressive shaking is what increases the static charge. And am thinking too much powder reduces the ability to build up. Gonna have to cast some more "clean" boolits so I can try again. Will be stopping by HF on the way home and see what I can find for boolit extraction. :) I am blessed, I have a Academy Sports across the street and pass HF on the way home from work. :)

Hmm, wonder if pre-shaking boolits in a clean bowl with only BBs in it would help build up the charge on the boolits before putting in bowl with PC..... Not sure if a charge can built up on an isolated piece of metal, gonna have to read up on that.

Wonder if doing the shaking inside the house where the AC has the humidity lower would help in lieu of in my shop with the door open. Our humidity tends to be quite high in the summer here in Georgia.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Rosewood

[bangerjim]

If you live in a humid climate (GA!?!?!?)......that will get into your coating bowl. Most do not seal tight enough. Put the bowl in a big ZipLok storage bag with some silicon desiccant drying media. I do not have that problem here in the SW desert!

Check out the cat litter that is silicon desiccant based as I mentioned in a previous thread for all you wet climate guys.

BB's can be used forever from what I have seen.

And as I found out a long time ago.....swirling just does not do it. After swirling for 30-40 seconds, shake up & down hard for 10 seconds. If using a coolwhip bowl....HOLD ON to the lid with one hand!!!!!!!! Yields almost 95% coating. And that other 5% melts and fills in during the 10 min @ 400F bake.

Medical hemostats work best for me to pick up. I have tried every other tool and these DO work extremely well. The ones I use are curved to allow easy access to any lay position in the bowl. And.......they leave ZERO damage to the powder.

Good luck finding the secrets to getting BBDT to work specifically for you. There are a TON of variables to deal with. It takes a lot of experimentation!!!!!!!!!!

bangerjim

[rosewood]

I am thinking of doing my shake dance in the house during the summer and put the boolits on the baking tray inside and then taking out to shop to bake. That may help. I guess the best trick will be to do all my shake and baking in the winter time from now on.

I was wondering about getting some curved hemostats. Is that something you can get in a local store?

Thanks,

Rosewood

[Beagle333]

Do you have a CVS or Walgreens or Rite-Aid nearby? They should have them.
WalMart website says they have them, but I guess it'd be according to store.

[bangerjim]

I got mine (several pair) at a local HUGE swap meet from a guy that sold all kinds of specialty tools.

I use them for picking boolits, heat sinks when soldering semiconductors, removing teeny stuff from tiny holes, and all kinds of other tasks that require a good grip. Far better than any needle nose or fish hook pliers! My boolit pickers are ~6" long but I have some that are 4" to 12" long.

banger

[rosewood]

Scored a pr at hf that should work well. Think I am gonna try to powder coat tips. Tks.

[bangerjim]

Won't help anything. Best way (if you are worrying about marks - which I never get) is to just dip the ends in loose powder every so often.

[rosewood]

Won't help anything. Best way (if you are worrying about marks - which I never get) is to just dip the ends in loose powder every so often.

I was thinking about not marking as well as not shorting the electrical charge. I was reading up on putting a static charge on metal and you can charge it up if you don't ground the metal. So my thinking is, you build up a static charge on the boolits while shaking and if you then grab the boolit with metal forceps, you are effectively grounding the system and letting the charge leave the boolit. By PC'ing the ends of the forceps, you are effectively insulating the forceps so you don't ground out the static charge buildup on the boolit. Some sort of rubber coating on the tips would work also. Again, this is all speculation, I do not know if it will really make that much of a difference, but it does seem feasible.

Rosewood

[bangerjim]

The tiny thin layer of PC you would build up will not insulate that well. Besides you have already used up any static to coat the boolits in the bowl, so why worry about "shorting" the boolit out when you pick it up to bake? I have never seen any powder fall off after I picked up the boolit. I even tap the hemos on the side of the bowl to remove excess powder off. Perfect coats every time.

But try it and let us know. You can always take the baked-on powder off the tips by soaking them in acetone and scrubbing.

I have done MANY experiments with all forms of static electricity from simple rubbing a rubber rod on fur to high voltages generated by a Whimshurst influence static machine I built charging banks of Leyden jars and all the misc accessories used with them. ( Ben Franklin and his fellow scientists did a lot of this back in the early days of the "magic electrical" discovery days.) Static electricity behaves totally different than most realize.

banger

[gpidaho]

It's my opinion (everyone has one) That there is a LARGE amount of overthinking this powder coat thing. I've found it pretty darn hard to mess up. Then again, I do live in a very arid climate not the humid sort some of you deal with.Gp

[bangerjim]

Most topics on here tend to be "over thought" a lot! :violin:

I could not believe the recent thread on changing out a simple wall light switch! New switch from WalMart + screwdriver + 5 minutes of time = problem solved.

[guncheese]

Once the bullets are coated I use self closing tweezers to move the bullets to my silicon mat covered trays. I picked up the tweezers at Harbor Freight and ground down the nose so I can grab the bullet between the bands, which leaves no mark on the bullet.


i use a HF tweezers as well but not self closing
and it has serrations
https://goo.gl/IOcsrW
i keep them full of powder
and i never have a issue with naked spots
https://goo.gl/n6gaTs

[rosewood]

It's my opinion (everyone has one) That there is a LARGE amount of overthinking this powder coat thing. I've found it pretty darn hard to mess up. Then again, I do live in a very arid climate not the humid sort some of you deal with.Gp


Overthinking becomes a problem when it doesn't work for you. If you get it right the first time, then it is a breeze, but if something goes wrong, it can be a struggle pinpointing the mistake. Our humidity runs 50% + all summer long and sometimes hits in the 90% range. That may have been the issue.

[rosewood]

Most topics on here tend to be "over thought" a lot! :violin:

I could not believe the recent thread on changing out a simple wall light switch! New switch from WalMart + screwdriver + 5 minutes of time = problem solved.

You mean you change out a light switch with the power on, bare fingers and a non-insulated screw driver in your shorts and bare footed? Don't you know you have to turn off the power, check the wires with a meter to make sure it is off, get insulated gloves, insulated screw driver and pliers before you can even start?? Don't forget the insulated boots and insulating mat. LOL

[rosewood]

Guess I will try the dry paint dusted tweezers first as guncheese does before PC'ing them. :)

Thanks.

[fredj338]

I'm new to PC but having good results with HF red & S&B. I use screw top plastic containers, not a lot of powder enough BB to cover the bottom of the bowl 2 deep. Shake vigorously for 1min, works out here in Kalif. I use forceps as well to remove them, stand them base down on wire drawer organizers. They stick a tiny bit after baking but pop right off.
Just got some of Smoke's powders to try. Pretty simple w/o the mess of a sprayer.

[Zaneiel]

I didnt have much luck with the shake and bb method. I found adding a little laquer thinner to the powder and mixing it well till disolved worked well. You cover the boolits very fast. Also these are going to stick to your pan when you cure them so if you set them up so they arent on thier sides they finish pretty nice. Make sure you push size them.... helps alot. I am about to buy the hf spray gun and try that route next as those seem to get very nice finishes.

[bangerjim]

You mean you change out a light switch with the power on, bare fingers and a non-insulated screw driver in your shorts and bare footed? Don't you know you have to turn off the power, check the wires with a meter to make sure it is off, get insulated gloves, insulated screw driver and pliers before you can even start?? Don't forget the insulated boots and insulating mat. LOL

Some people are afraid of electricity. One should RESPECT it, not FEAR it! I work 120 & 220 AC all the time with the circuit hot. Just takes common sense and care (something many today do not have). After 55 years of doing it that way.......still no problems. When it comes to 480 I will kill the circuit!

[bangerjim]

I'm new to PC but having good results with HF red & S&B. I use screw top plastic containers, not a lot of powder enough BB to cover the bottom of the bowl 2 deep. Shake vigorously for 1min, works out here in Kalif. I use forceps as well to remove them, stand them base down on wire drawer organizers. They stick a tiny bit after baking but pop right off.
Just got some of Smoke's powders to try. Pretty simple w/o the mess of a sprayer.


Use NSAF! Nothing will stick! Even a tiny bit.

I have one rack that has been used for at least 40 bakes with BBDT and the foil is still 100% intact. Boolits litterally fall off. Just be sure and read the foil to get the NS surface up.

banger

[gpidaho]

rosewood: I certainly didn't mean to trivialize starting out problems. Sometimes a statement comes across better face to face with a grin than it does in print. Hope ya get it workin for ya, Gp

[rosewood]

rosewood: I certainly didn't mean to trivialize starting out problems. Sometimes a statement comes across better face to face with a grin than it does in print. Hope ya get it workin for ya, Gp
Nah. My skin is thicker than that!

[Smoke4320]

Biggest issue I continue to see is people afraid to shake HARD enough doing the DT Method.
Nearly everyone who writes directly to me with problems go away when I tell them to shake harder.. Count to 30 while swirling then count to 30 while shaking HARD

[bangerjim]

YES!!!!!!!!!! SHAKE HARD!!!!!!!!!!!

Works every time! That is why you use screw-on ZipLok containers. Or hold on real tight with coolwhip bowls.

bangerjim

[fredj338]

Biggest issue I continue to see is people afraid to shake HARD enough doing the DT Method.
Nearly everyone who writes directly to me with problems go away when I tell them to shake harder.. Count to 30 while swirling then count to 30 while shaking HARD
This how I started, works for me.

[Handloader109]

Guys, it is the cheap HF red, will not hold static nearly as well as other brands. And I'll not be shaking hard enough to ding up the bullets. It doesn't take that much to get powder to stick. No bbs either.

[bangerjim]

HF powders are a bit courser and are a totally different base material (at lease for now!) than Smoke's powder. I am sure their formulae/quality will change when the buy their next big batch from China....as does everything else they sell.

That is the difference.

banger

[gpidaho]

Well friends lol, it seems I've pretty much been doing everything PC wrong from the very start. This goes to my point as to how hard it is to mess up powder coating and maybe two, three or more wrongs do in fact make a right. Here we go and I hope you all get a giggle out of this. From the start, way back when I've used full sized aluminum plates to replace the rack in my oven. Hating Cool Whip I use the plastic cottage cheese containers #5. When ASBBDTing I use a ratio of about 1/4 to 1/3 powder to BBs (much more powder than most of you guys) I don't SHAKE the container anymore than just turning it upside down and giving it a light shake to redistribute the powder BB mix, this to avoid banging the boolits together. I've never checked my oven with a thermometer and relied soley on the 400 degree setting, at what ever temp this is really it works to perfection when I bake for 20 mins. On occasion in poor conditions outside I open a window in my reloading room, set the oven next to an exhaust fan and run a batch or two inside. Yet I've NEVER had a smash test fail and the coating on my boolits looks great! I'd post a pic or two but I guess the fumes have "Tarded" me to the extent that I can't figure out how (I'm no computer whiz) But as to quality looking PC bollits I can keep up with most. Love hearing from you guys and reading all the theories this whole PC thing is lots of fun and very functional, please keep posting what works for you. There truly is a lot of ways to skin the cat. Enjoy the day Gp

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

shake hard and up and down , not swirl like you do with alox

I started with a brand new rubber maid reusable/disposable 2 quart container , after about 500 boolits I had a crack in the bottom but was getting much better coverage with the vigorous up down shaking , I duct taped my crack from the outside and and still going , I will have to replace the container if the duct tape won't hold the crack but it is holding for now

I got ok coverage with more moderate shaking, just sort of tossing the bullets up and down 15-20 seconds but 30 seconds of vigorous up down shaking so that they hit the lid and hit the bottom every time seems to be the ticket for a very god coating for me

I am using harbor freight red , there are some times I don't get 100% pigment coverage but if it is smooth an shiny the clear coat part has done it's job and that is ll you really need

I started by adding 1 table spoon of powder with my first batch of bbs and boolits , after the first few runs a table spoon every 200-300 boolits seems plenty I am mostly doing 9mm and 40cal so not huge boolits but about 100 -150 at a time
I must have near a thousand coated , most of them also already shot and it hardly seems like I have made a dent n my first pound of HF red and I bought a second pound already , I need to fire the pot up again and make several thousand more to coat

I size after the coat and they slip right through a Lee push through I am pushing the Lee 356-120tc that weigh 124gr so that they feel just like and print the same as factory ammo perfect to the factory sights on a G17 with the original barrel , and it is very clean after hundreds of rounds only powder residue left , one pull with the bore snake and it looks spotless145878145877

this is my son moving them to trays from the rubber maid container , I get a few more on a sheet than he does but free labor is worth what is paid for it some times , baking 400*F for 10 minutes in my good will special convection oven

you can see we use the niterill glove method of transfer , as long as you dip the fingers in the powder to get them coated well first it seems ot work very well it takes about 10 minutes to fill a tray If I get 1-2 more trays and have 3-4 going , then the only slow down will be how fast I can cast them.

[rosewood]

I think I wasn't shaking hard enough. Maybe we can turn the shaking into a work out routine. :) Should be good for the forearms and shoulders. I will also use less powder and more BBs next time as I now think I had way too much powder in my bowl. Will give an update once I have cast some more boolits I can PC. Thanks for all the suggestions!!

[gpidaho]

Just read GREENCOUNTYPETE's post. Sounds like another convert to me! Welcome to the gotta cast more so I can coat more so I can cast more addiction. I'm never going to lube a handgun boolit again myself. Gp

[MT Gianni]

You mean you change out a light switch with the power on, bare fingers and a non-insulated screw driver in your shorts and bare footed? Don't you know you have to turn off the power, check the wires with a meter to make sure it is off, get insulated gloves, insulated screw driver and pliers before you can even start?? Don't forget the insulated boots and insulating mat. LOL
You always see some that don't trust the house circuit and feel it is best to kill it at the pole.

[rosewood]

Got to test some PC'd boolits yesterday. Shot some in 40S&W and they shot well, no leading, minor paint chips in bbl that wiped right out. Shot some in 45acp and had some feed issues, seems I had them loaded too long and some of the boolits were jamming in the rifling and not letting the action close. Was quite a chore to safely open the action and remove the boolit. Guess I will have to seat these coated boolits deeper than I did lubed boolits. I think the coat is harder than the lead and is more of an issue when driving into the rifling with recoil spring power over lubed boolits. The did shoot clean also. I think I am gonna like this PC'ing once I get all of my kinks worked out. :)

Rosewood

[popper]

Rosewood - just drop the mag and pogo like an AR. I use a mag loader around the barrel to make it easier BUT make sure it's pointed in a safe direction AND you hand is NOT in the line of fire. I've not had one go off yet, but mine are striker fired. Don't know if 45 safety system will prevent accidental discharge.

[rosewood]

I dropped the mag and then pressed the slide against a wooden table clearing the barrel in a safe direction, it came out. However, I didn't like it. It is a series 80 which requires the trigger to be pulled to fire.

[gpidaho]

rosewood: I had quite a fight on my hands getting my old Ruger 97 DC to accept cast boolits of any kind, lubed or PCd. The old 45 is tough as nails but has no throat and just wouldn't go into battery without seating deeper than I would like. (should just have it throated) I started with a dummy round and a Lee FCD until I found a workable COL and then using my chronograph just worked the load up until I got the power level I wanted. Anytime you PC your adding dimension and this can be either a problem or a very handy asset. Gp

[rosewood]

Never had any issues with lubed boolits, just these PC'd boolits. Guessing the .002" of paint is causing a clearance issue. Kind of paranoid to use the FCD as that seems to cause more leading issues, but the PC may have solved that.

[rosewood]

I am using the Lee 452-200 rf boolit which does seem a bit wide on the nose. It works fine in my 45 colt guns that I have tried. I am wondering if I should get the 452-200 SWC boolit for use in the .45 autos. I think that might provide more clearance and eliminate the boolits being forced into the rifling when closing the action. Any thoughts?

Rosewood

[popper]

You can seat deeper to solve the problem or like I did, get accurate to cut you a mould that is 0.003 smaller in front of the bands. If you are sticking with coating, you can get slick sided which works fine. I use TC for 9 & 40, no feed problems - I don't know about SWC in 45 - I'd check it out first.

[guncheese]

You can seat deeper to solve the problem
I don't know about SWC in 45 - I'd check it out first.

seating a bit deeper has worked for me in 9mm
but i only run SWC in 45
both the LEE TL452-200 and the 452-200 H&G 68 clone sized to .452 perrrrfect !!
https://goo.gl/vSeHkw

[rosewood]

I am thinking that semi-wadcutter may be the ticket. I took the tight boolits and seated them until they would sit flush in my barrel and it was way deeper than I wanted. The RNFP is fine in 45 colt. I used to use commercial RNFP in 45 colt and 45 acp but I remember my sig P220 didn't like those and would misfeed (always perfect with j-words though). I wonder how it would do with cast PC'd semi-wadcutters. It is my favorite pistol and I would love if it would shoot cast.

Thanks,

Rosewood

[Spector]

Both of those boolits used to feed fine in my Glock 21. They both feed fine in my XDS. Simply adjust the seating depth, but it does require deep seating for the XDS. The SWC was the most accurate for me.........Mike

[Boolit_Head]

Just tried the same thing and ran across similar results. Poor coverage with the HF red but Smokes powder came out beautifully. I did find however that I had better coverage when shaking up and down in a cool whip container than swirling.

[gpidaho]

Like popper says, a smaller nose is working a lot better for me as I'm in the same fight only with 9mm Luger. When seating the Lee 356-125-2R and the 356-120-TC I have to seat to 1.080 to get them to plunk test. With the TL-356-124-R I can seat at 1.135. On the plus side the 356-125 sized .358 works very well in my Ruger 77-357. Gp

[popper]

I coat everything now, TC in 40 & 9. I cast a lot of them - when we do shoot it's like 4-500 rnds, GKs and all (last 'shoot' was 4 GK & 2 adults). Custom mould is worth it to me, solves all the tolerance problems - I've worn out 2 Lee molds.