44 mag for deer???

[tcrocker]

What would be the min weight lee bullet mold would you use on deer? Just got a Lipsey exclusive New Super Blackhawk Bisley with the 3.75" barrel now I'm looking for a rifle. The range I hunt at is less than 100yds most taken inside 50yds. i am looking at the 310gr boolit, but the recoil may be a bit much in the handgun. But I don't know just shot some 240gr factory rounds recoil wasn't that bad.

[Lefty Red]

240-250gr has taken most game in North America. Don't see a need for anything more, for me. If I was gong after dangerous game, then maybe something heavier. But I have shot the Lee 310gr at around 900-1000 fps and it was a very capable load with a non punishing recoil. No need to puch that hunk of lead fast for it to work at the ranges you are hunting. Of course placement is the key. No caliber or speed will make up for poor placement.

Jerry

[rondog]

Minimum? Probably around 200. 310 is overkill IMO. I took a deer with my .44 Winnie, 210gr Silvertip IIRC. I was taken by how small the chest area really is, how small the ribs are, and how my hollowpoint bullet just sailed right through her. And this was a big Colorado mulie doe, not a smaller whitetail.

Kinda gave me the impression that big heavy bullets with a lot of power behind them aren't really needed for deer. Bullet placement seems a lot more important. But I'm sure people will disagree from one end of the spectrum to the other.

[44man]

Can't disagree with what works but I like the heavy boolits. The Lee 310 is super. Recoil is just not that bad.
.44 is a great deer gun.

[Digital Dan]

Minimum? Probably around 200. 310 is overkill IMO. I took a deer with my .44 Winnie, 210gr Silvertip IIRC. I was taken by how small the chest area really is, how small the ribs are, and how my hollowpoint bullet just sailed right through her. And this was a big Colorado mulie doe, not a smaller whitetail.

Kinda gave me the impression that big heavy bullets with a lot of power behind them aren't really needed for deer. Bullet placement seems a lot more important. But I'm sure people will disagree from one end of the spectrum to the other.

What is overkill? Deader than dead? Rotted before they hit the ground? What a puzzle...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/PaperPatchDeer009_zps3a52d58c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/PaperPatchDeer009_zps3a52d58c.jpg.html)

That was a 300 grain paper patch bullet. The deer brought back to me, coughed it up in my lap, laughed at me and ran off.

Think I'll use a .50-140-3-1/4 Sharps next season.

[tcrocker]

145582Here is a pic

[tcrocker]

Coughed it up you must have some bad deer.

[Digital Dan]

Ninja deer from the Shaolin Temple? I dunno?

Minor thought about your inquiry: First order of business is finding a load that works for you and the gun. Don't know that you need to go large on bullets, but for certain you need to place them in the right place. I'm of a mind groomed by both pistol and rifle with the .44. Placement first, bullet style appropriate for the velocity spectrum you'll get from your snubby and rifle is second, followed way in the back of the pack by velocity. I would not use a light weight jacketed bullet in a rifle, nor a Hindenburg in a pistol. The slug pictured above left the muzzle at 1600 fps in a rifle. It won't do anything close to that in a pistol. Different strokes etc.

[tcrocker]

done most of my hunting with a 480gr 45/70 moving out pretty fast just started using a 308 this past year just like lever guns. The handgun would be more for fun or if one comes in close.

[kenyerian]

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,920.0.html Can't wait to try this one. It is on Last Call at NOE's Forum.
http://noebulletmolds.com/photos/albums/432-290-FN-432640-/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_432-290-FN_-GC-_290_gr_Sketch.Jpg

[randyrat]

You gotta love the 310 gr Lee boolit.. Push it about 1100 or better, it will kill anything in North America. I like em about 50/50 or WWs so they don't shatter. I prefer just behind the shoulder so I can bone the shoulders out and not ruin meat. With the 310 grain Lee you will have 2 large bleeding holes.
Just practice so you know your point of aim between 50 to a hundred yards. It won't change a lot , but it is a good thing for a clean/ethical kill.

If you have the cash buy that 432-290...Now that is a NICE! boolit also.

[Lefty Red]

I just read your original posting. I mean I "read" read before, but I missed the LEE mold part. If I had to buy a LEE mold to hunt with, its would be the 310gr RF one. Its just right! I have used it and casted Roto Metals 1-16 ingots as is. Ran them at the 900-925 fps spot because they were a nice soft roll and they clover leafed, majority of the time off the bench, at 50 yards out my my SBH. Really saw no need for anything faster.

I hunt smaller does for a farmer and 100 yard shots was clean kills when put in the heart and lungs. Soft organ tissue was devastating! Shoulder shots were clean through. Don't know how it will do on Ninja Deers. :)

I had the double cavity mold and used them as dropped on a towel and air cooled. I tumble lubed them with Alox. Didn't have gas checks as the time, so didn't use them. Clean up was easy.

Lee makes a good mold. Customer service everywhere is lacking. If I get a bad mold I send it back and they give me a new one. Still cheaper than other companies.

And like DD said, what you can shoot in a pistol or rifle doesn't mean its going to work in the other. I know my friend's Henry Big Boy will not cycle the Lee 310gr worth a damn. He went with the LEE 240gr SWC-GC and has clean kills with it. He lucked out! His SAA clone is in 44 magnum, and he can shoot a mild (950fps) load in it and it works in his Henry too! He is lucky like that. And I would take a deer at <100 yards with that load. I use that loading and bullet in my 44 special BH and it is accurate and will drop a deer out to 50 yards, maybe more if I was a better shot.

Guess what I'm saying is that you don't need to run the 44 magnum that fast nor have punishing recoil to cleanly kill deer at 100 yards or less.

Jerry

[Driver man]

What is overkill? Deader than dead? Rotted before they hit the ground? What a puzzle...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/PaperPatchDeer009_zps3a52d58c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/PaperPatchDeer009_zps3a52d58c.jpg.html)

That was a 300 grain paper patch bullet. The deer brought back to me, coughed it up in my lap, laughed at me and ran off.

Think I'll use a .50-140-3-1/4 Sharps next season.


Dont ya just hate it when they do that?

[sixshot]

Deer & the 44 maggie go together like bread & butter, it just doesn't get any better. Use a good bullet that you shoot well & that will give you penetration because without it you will be tracking! Good bullets will exit & as mentioned above don't worry about velocity, those big bullets work if you do your part. Just stay within a distance that you are comfortable with & you will eat backstraps every fall.

Dick

[Digital Dan]

Dont ya just hate it when they do that?

I do. It's humiliating. :cry:

[MBTcustom]

What is overkill? Deader than dead? Rotted before they hit the ground? What a puzzle...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/PaperPatchDeer009_zps3a52d58c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/PaperPatchDeer009_zps3a52d58c.jpg.html)

That was a 300 grain paper patch bullet. The deer brought back to me, coughed it up in my lap, laughed at me and ran off.

Think I'll use a .50-140-3-1/4 Sharps next season.


You freakin ROCK!
That's an awesome post, and my kind of humor! LOL!
I like sarcasm like I like my bacon: Thick, juicy, and hot off the griddle! Bwahahahahahaha!!!

[nagantguy]

Lee 240 gc was my go to do everything rifle and revolver boolit, still love them just cast some on Sat. But my new love is the Lee 430-310, I've been preaching it's greatness to whom ever would listen. From full house h 110 to fairly sedated bullseye loads it's a axe grinder, pile drive. It delivers the 44 accuracy and fun I dreamed about as a boy! When pcd and gcd it's 313-315 out of a carbine my daughter who is 11 can shoot it well for several shots with no recoil fatigue or fuss, she shoots it so well it was the rifle/ boolit she carried for her first opening day!

[DougGuy]

The 310 shoots REALLY WELL in my 7 1/2" SBH, this boolit cast a bit on the soft side, 50/50+2% with Felix lube goes 1200fps over 17.0gr 2400 with zero leading and great groups. Same load won't quite hit 1200 in your shorty but it will definitely crack 1150 or thereabouts. Which btw, is almost perfect for this boolit. Cast soft enough that you can dig a fingernail into it, with soft lube, will take to that Ruger rifling like a duck to water. It did in mine. You will get expansion with it as well. Some can say it may be overkill, but it performs SO WELL that I don't even own or load any other booilts for the .44 than that one. I have the same boolit cast in slightly harder alloy for hogs.

You may want to check your cylinder throats, I would suggest optimizing them for .432" boolits.

As far as a rifle in companion caliber, there are a LOT of variations in this caliber to beware of! Some of the "gotchas" are twist rate in the barrel, and a generous groove diameter necessitating sizing as large as .433" for some rifles. Also some won't feed the very fine deer slaying Lee 310gr RF boolit unless it is seated down low in the upper crimp groove. Marlins, Winchesters, all have their individual "quirks" that are (from my reading here) just enough to be annoying and can take a LOT of time and effort to get them to shoot well. I have been hesitant in buying a levergun in a pistol caliber, and have picked up a wealth of information from reading that had I went out and bought one, would be learning the hard way more or less. Hate it when that happens!

Apparently, Chiappa makes a levergun with the CORRECT twist rate for .44 magnum and the heavy for caliber Lee 310 boolit. Goodsteel wrote a very enlightening post about it. If the groove diameter is suitable for using a .432" boolit, and the twist is 1:20, and it will feed the 310 RF boolit, then 3/4 of the aggravation to getting a rifle to shoot heavy .44 magnum cast boolits is already taken care of! If I was wanting a levergun to hunt with out to 100, I certainly wouldn't want one that is problematic and some of them just are because of the twist rate, or groove diameter, or having to make special loads JUST for the rifle that won't work in the piistol. I think I'd check into the Chiappa.

[MT Chambers]

There is no Lee mold that I would use for deer or anything else for that matter,have we not been reading about them? There are plenty of great designs from the likes of LBT, NOE, Accurate, Mountain Molds, Saeco, RCBS, Lyman (esp. 429421). Why frustrate yourself casting, cursing your mold, getting more irritated, and then walk around with a loaded gun?

[tdoyka]

i like the 200gr hornady xtp for deer. my super redhawk really does like them. i think the 265gr(280gr) ranch dog will work too. i'm shooting them in my 444 marlin.
http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/TLC432275RF/bullet/sketch.jpg

[44man]

The RD is a great boolit and I like the looks of the 290 shown. It might be the best compromise.
Hard to beat the 310 though. A few seasons back I ran out of my boolit and had 5 310's left in the box. I shot 3 deer and had 2 left. POI is exactly the same as my bigger boolit and the LBT 320.
My friend shot 2 deer with the LBT 320 from Cast Precision broadside behind the shoulders. Both deer were gut shot when he opened them, big mess and he knew he did not shoot them there.
He recovered both boolits in the hams. I seen he nicked bone and wiped half the noses so the boolits turned 90°.
I like a harder boolit so he switched to mine.
I gave up light, fast opening boolit/bullets since I lost penetration and blood trails. I don't want to find boolits in deer.

[Swede44mag]

I have been using Lyman 240gr Keith style boolits in my 44's for years shot a nice fat doe with a S&W 8-3/8" I had she was DRT.
Last year I traded a couple of pistols on a Ruger Bisley Blackhawk hunter in 44mag it shoots great but I cant find any Hogue or checkered grips.
It is to slick with gloves on I plan on breaking her in on a nice fat Doe or Buck this coming deer season.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I am a "41 magger" so we are only .02 in diameter away with available velocity near equal.
I personally use a 265 grainer GC. Has never failed to exit and have never lost a corn cruncher to one cast of 50-50 (WW-lead or range scrap) with 1-2 % tin. I hunt river bottoms so I have never fired on a deer farther than 33 yards. Most are within 10 yards. So 1000 - 1050 fps is plenty. This is from a Dan Wesson with the 8 inch tube. I have pushed these bullets to 1250 fps with little leading problems as only needed one shot. For practice I load straight WW with GC as I have lots more of that available.
Mike in Peru

[quilbilly]

An 200 gr 44 cal boolit going 850 fps at the point of impact (i.e. 100 yards) will do quite nicely. I have seen plenty of deer do somersaults after being hit with a 130 gr 45 cal patched round ball from my muzzleloader moving at just that velocity when struck.

[John Allen]

240 grain keith does pretty well

[tcrocker]

Thanks DougGuy that was a lot of info in one post.

[GabbyM]

I think quilbilly has it. Something between 200 and 320 grains that shoots good in your gun.
The old black powder Winchester 44-40 rifle was a 205 grain slug at around 1,200 fps.

[Lonegun1894]

Lots of good info here. I have used the Lee 240gr SWC TL with good results on hogs, but have bought a Lyman 429421 since and the results are a bit better with slightly shorter runs, but I tend to shoot for the shoulder cause of hunting in thick brush and on the ground. I haven't taken near as many deer as hogs, but anything that will take a hog will take a deer even easier.

[44man]

I have used the .44 most and it has always worked. Most deer never make 30 yards with a blood trail a blind man can follow! I just listen to hear them crash. It is thick here too.
All I used the 240 XTP on went over 60 yards with no blood trails but I was able to see them fall.
I have a habit of back tracking all deer to where they were shot, it teaches a lot about what a boolit does.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Shot a domestic ram behind the head at 50 yards with the Lee 200 RNFP @1100 fps (ACWW). He had his head down eating, the boolit entered at the top of his neck behind his head and exited his chest, for a total of 18 inches of penetration. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer with the same load. Shot a 250 lb domestic hog point blank behind the ear with the same boolit at 900 fps. The boolit lodged in the far side of the skull. The retrieved boolit nose had riveted a bit, but was no larger than caliber. This was 44 special territory, but I don't see a well hit deer going very far with that one either.

[44man]

Shot a domestic ram behind the head at 50 yards with the Lee 200 RNFP @1100 fps (ACWW). He had his head down eating, the boolit entered at the top of his neck behind his head and exited his chest, for a total of 18 inches of penetration. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer with the same load. Shot a 250 lb domestic hog point blank behind the ear with the same boolit at 900 fps. The boolit lodged in the far side of the skull. The retrieved boolit nose had riveted a bit, but was no larger than caliber. This was 44 special territory, but I don't see a well hit deer going very far with that one either.
Only if you shoot the deer behind the ear or in the neck. Not real world hunting.
"WELL HIT" loses me every time as does CNS hits. "Placement" is also funny. Most revolver shooters can't do 2" at 25 yards but claim extreme range "placement."
I demand less then 1" AT 50 from revolvers so just watch me shoot a deer behind the ear at 100. Are you a nut?

[richhodg66]

I've yet to kill a deer with a handgun, but I used the Lyman 215 grain gas check design (can't remember the mold #) in sabots using 70 grains of Hogdon 777 to take a couple of deer with one season and it worked fine. Not sure how that loading compares with handgun figures, but it was a light load for the rifle as I was trying to work something for my son who was young and recoil conscious at the time.

If heavier works better in your particular handgun, go for it, but I don't think it's really necessary.

[Blammer]

200gr is the min wt I'd use.

[white eagle]

your gun and mine are way different you have a short barrel and I have a 10" barrel
for me the hunting weight boolit always seems to be heavy for cal.I mainly use 300 gr.+
however this year I am going to set up for the 250 gr.Keith (Mihec 503)
like Lee's 300 gr. too and have some cast

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Only if you shoot the deer behind the ear or in the neck. Not real world hunting.
"WELL HIT" loses me every time as does CNS hits. "Placement" is also funny. Most revolver shooters can't do 2" at 25 yards but claim extreme range "placement."
I demand less then 1" AT 50 from revolvers so just watch me shoot a deer behind the ear at 100. Are you a nut?

Wasn't implying that a deer would need hit behind the ear with that load to be effective. "We'll hit" in my book is a behind the shoulder double lunger with a piece of heart if everything goes well.

[OnHoPr]

"We'll hit" in my book is a behind the shoulder double lunger with a piece of heart if everything goes well.

Never hit the heart. That's a fine dinner par boiled a bit and then stuffed with bacon wrapping then the oven. Or, forget the par boiling and use a pressure cooker.

[TXGunNut]

Nice looking revolver! Can't really help with your question as posted but can verify that a 300 gr lead boolit at a bit over 1000 fps with flatten a good-sized hog, won't matter to the critter if it came from your new Ruger in 43 Mag or my old Ruger in 45 Colt.

[44man]

Wasn't implying that a deer would need hit behind the ear with that load to be effective. "We'll hit" in my book is a behind the shoulder double lunger with a piece of heart if everything goes well.
Most of my deer are shot behind the shoulders. Old habit from an old archer that says you do not shoot an arrow into the shoulder.
Revolvers are hard to shoot anyway and hit exact with. I demand better accuracy from a revolver then a rifle to ensure a good hit. But a small target like a head shot or even a neck shot is out of reach of most even with a rifle. Maybe 10 yards but even then off hand is a toss.
I have done it with a deer I shot on the run with the .44. He was going up and I took out both front legs so he pushed away with just back legs. Kept a distance so when I seen his head come up in the brush I shot him in the head at 40 yards. Not my normal hunting.

[NavyVet1959]

Around here, the deer have gotten so tame that you can drive by them and they'll just look up at you and then go back to eating. I've had them within 6 ft of me when i was stopped at a stop sign while on my Harley. As such, it's just no challenge and I don't hunt them. Besides, they irritate my neighbors when they eat all the plants that they put out each spring and I kind of like seeing those Starbuck-swilling soccer-mom HOA Nazis get irritated. :) They're not as large as some of the deer I've seen elsewhere in the country -- I suspect you could easily take one with even a 9x19 handgun.

Someone once said that you don't carry the gun for what you are most likely to encounter, but for the worst possible thing that you *might* encounter. As such, you might think that you will only encounter 100 lb does, so you don't need that much of a gun, but what do you do if you encounter a 300-400 lb hog? Sure, they are not that common, but "what if"? Will you be wishing you had brought a .45-70 with you instead?

[44man]

I don't hunt my woods anymore. The deer are always in my yard. They walk up to me and my little dog. I can't hunt deer used to me. I go down the road and back in the woods.

[mwells72774]

Just curious but does bullet profile play as big of a role here? I've got a Lee 240 RN mold that I'd like to be able to use in a NEF 44 mag carbine. I've considered using a drill press and center drill, if that's what it's called, to do a slight hollow point.

[rondog]

Just curious but does bullet profile play as big of a role here? I've got a Lee 240 RN mold that I'd like to be able to use in a NEF 44 mag carbine. I've considered using a drill press and center drill, if that's what it's called, to do a slight hollow point.
Give it a try, but I'd load up a bunch and give 'em a good workout for accuracy first. I've had dismal results with LSWC's in my Trapper, but that's with only one boolit type, with beveled bases. It's a killer with flat based jacketed though.

Never tried it, but I've always thought a center drill (correct term, btw!) would make dandy hp cavities! They come in several sizes, no idea what size is best though. Probably one of the smaller ones. I imagine I'd clamp a board on my drill press table, drill a hole for the boolits to sit in, then put the center drill in the chuck while it's still centered over the hole.

I should try this, I think I might even have a center drill.....

[rondog]

I don't hunt my woods anymore. The deer are always in my yard. They walk up to me and my little dog. I can't hunt deer used to me. I go down the road and back in the woods.

Can you hand feed them? Probably shouldn't anyway, but having deer come up close to you in your own yard would be so awesome! I couldn't/wouldn't shoot one like that either. But man, I'd be workin' 'em over with my Nikon!

[Lefty Red]

Deer are as thick as rats in a dump here. Having twins and triplets now, does breed like rabbits. Not tame, just use to human smell and sounds. If folks around here were honest, we don't hunt deer just pick out the ones we want to shoot. Just hope "wasting sickness" doesn't come back.

Jerry

[Thumbcocker]

For the past several years I have hunted with .44 revolvers and bow exclusively. I have an album if you want to see pics. All the deer will killed with Keith style SWC's over 2400, 4227, or more recently H110. All died. Most with one shot. Aim for the lungs or shoot for the exit hole on a route through the lungs and get your skinning knife ready. some boolits were hp Keith's cast of 50/50 ww and pure and the deer still died about the same. I have had 2 bang flops where I hit a bit high on the shoulder and hit spine. All the rest were pretty much the same scenario aim for lungs, good clean sight picture, squeeze, bang run 30-40 yards and fall over. Longest shot was 65 yards with a second at 40. Deer looked around and came further down the trail and I shot him again. He moseyed up the trail lay down coughed twice and rolled over. Holes were gratifyingly close together.

Upshot is 250 grn swc boolit through the lungs = freezer meat.

[OnHoPr]

Just curious but does bullet profile play as big of a role here? I've got a Lee 240 RN mold that I'd like to be able to use in a NEF 44 mag carbine. I've considered using a drill press and center drill, if that's what it's called, to do a slight hollow point.


Are you talking about this boolit? It is my go to boolit for my 50 x 209 encore. No bang flops yet, but no runs over 50 yds either, truthfully. I push it with 120 gr of Pdex Select. I tried Noslers (not bad, tuff), gold dots (not bad), knights, shockwaves (200 gr not bad, real good for past 200 yd) that I can recall and this is the boolit I chose to hunt with. Estimated velocity is around 1900 fps. It is in a sabot though, alloyed at 75/25 Pb/WW, so it is still soft, just enough to keep form at launch. It hasn't tore up to much meat yet, but does a decent job on organs, not explosive though. I am not sure of the hardness required to use it in your carbine without the GC to get optimum speeds though. If you could cast it and load it in the same style of the Keith boolit in the pistol at 1400, the rifle with the longer barrel should get a couple of hundred fps more, maybe up to 1700 fps. With the HP concept you may have to hit a few deers ribs first to decide on that.

The boolit to the left is the Lee 310, I never got around to getting GCs for it. But, I did get a 1" end mill and toggle clamps to make a v block holder to take off the GC base. Maybe I will get to hit a deer in the ribs with it one day and see if I can keep those deer runs under 25 yds.
146075

[mwells72774]

Are you talking about this boolit? It is my go to boolit for my 50 x 209 encore. No bang flops yet, but no runs over 50 yds either, truthfully. I push it with 120 gr of Pdex Select. I tried Noslers (not bad, tuff), gold dots (not bad), knights, shockwaves (200 gr not bad, real good for past 200 yd) that I can recall and this is the boolit I chose to hunt with. Estimated velocity is around 1900 fps. It is in a sabot though, alloyed at 75/25 Pb/WW, so it is still soft, just enough to keep form at launch. It hasn't tore up to much meat yet, but does a decent job on organs, not explosive though. I am not sure of the hardness required to use it in your carbine without the GC to get optimum speeds though. If you could cast it and load it in the same style of the Keith boolit in the pistol at 1400, the rifle with the longer barrel should get a couple of hundred fps more, maybe up to 1700 fps. With the HP concept you may have to hit a few deers ribs first to decide on that.

The boolit to the left is the Lee 310, I never got around to getting GCs for it. But, I did get a 1" end mill and toggle clamps to make a v block holder to take off the GC base. Maybe I will get to hit a deer in the ribs with it one day and see if I can keep those deer runs under 25 yds.
146075
Yep, the pill on the right. Looks promising if I can get it sized just right

[Blanket]

any bullet with a flat nose above 200 gr out of a 44 mag will get the job done on a deer

[Ramjet-SS]

From my Model 29 Classic Lee 300 grain Wadcutter with GC over 18.5 Grains of IMR 4227 will drive stem to stern on any whitetail been there done that.