Couple questions about shooting double action

[RedHawk357Mag]

Recently have been shooting in Bowling pin shoots. Never really shot much double action before this. I shoot both a Ruger Redhawks in 357 /38 Special and a Ruger Match Champion. I shoot pretty good single action with about any revolver but double action has proven to be problematic. First thing I noticed is my sights are not the same between single and double. Since I am shooting double action exclusively for pin shooting the sights are set for double action shooting. These settings pretty much put me center of the target. If I fire single action the impact will be 3 or 4 inches to the left of point of aim. This is consistent. My sights are cranked all the way to the left on both revolvers. Back when shooting single action sights were fairly centered. Distance is 15 yards. Variety of loadings. Loads group well off bench. Good firm grip, guns feel very well controlled, trigger finger on first joint ensuring I am not dragging on the right side of revolver thus pushing the gun to the left. Also keeping the the trigger moving smoothly, not herky jerky and not snatching. I just can't help thinking something isn't right with both sights cranked or slid all the way left with no further adjustment available. But the problem is exact same on two separate revolvers. Shooting right eye open with glasses. Groups enlarge with both eyes open. Best groups are accomplished with feet shoulder width apart with slight crouch forward with the upper body. Recoil is a non issue with a Redhawk and 38 wad cutters. Thanks.

[GSM]

DA takes more effort from the trigger finger. Pulling the trigger straight back in DA is easy to say, terribly hard to be good at. Right handed, it always seems that the trigger is being "pushed" to the left (picture the finger curling to the left in order to pull the hammer back and rotate the cylinder).

Practice, practice, and more practice.

[wv109323]

If you are not pulling the trigger straight to the rear then the difference in trigger weight(single vs. double) would make an impact difference. Single action is 3-4 lbs and double action may well be 8-11 pounds. That difference would affect the recoil of the pistol.
Also the trigger overtravel may be a culprit. With 11 pounds of force the trigger breaks and hits its mechanical stop. Sights become slightly misaligned. That may not be happening with the lighter single action pull.
I read of a police combat shooter that had a piece of pencil eraser as a trigger stop for his DA shooting. The trigger hit the eraser just before the hammer was released. He could quickly pull the trigger back through the double action to where the trigger hit the eraser. The eraser had to be compressed in order for the hammer to be released. He aligned his sights before the final moment when the hammer fell.

[RedHawk357Mag]

I use the first joint of trigger to shoot revolver for the reason of straight pull through. My rifle trigger is 3 lbs which I use the pad of my trigger finger with results that I find more than acceptable. I am concerned that something I am doing funky is causing the sights to be set to the extreme left. Think I just might go shoot a couple of my Smiths, another 357 and 22 and see if I have the same results. Thanks for weighing in much appreciated.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I can't imagine shooting a Redhawk double action and being really good at it. I did see some fellows shoot the Speed Six and Security Six well in competition. There really isn't a much better revolver for D.A. work than a Smith. What I think is going on is that you are pulling to the right and compensating for that pull with sights set to the left. A couple of competitors showed me a trick one time that reduced my groups a bit, and that was to insert the trigger finger though the guard so that your finger is past the first joint, between the first and second joint. This results in a pull to the rear that is straighter and there is less movement of the revolver. It takes a little getting used to, and everyone can't do it if they have stubby fingers, but if you are able to do it give it a try. Next, a well tuned Smith will let you pull the trigger back cocking the hammer with a great deal of control until--keeping the pressure on the trigger--you can stop it at just about the point in the cycle where it would be if thumb cocked single action. This gives you one last micro second to make an almost subconscious realignment of the sights if needed and then just a fraction more pull will drop the hammer. The system will greatly improve your accuracy and can be done very rapidly with practice. But, like the man already said, practice, practice, practice. And, a well tuned revolver.

[RedHawk357Mag]

Interesting. I am going to give a go with my 686-4 and see if makes any difference. I don't shoot the 686 much since the Match Champion is a pretty close to the Smith and is a Ruger. But my 617 is like glass so that might be different double action. Thanks for the tip. I use extra large gloves so I should be able to pull it off.

[StrawHat]

My dry fire practice allowed me to be competitive in PPC shooting. With an empty revolver, I would sight in on a blank wall and do a deliberate slow pull on the trigger. If the sights moved out of alignment, I knew the problem was with my pull. Once I was able to pull straight through slowly, I started working on my cadence. Soon enough, I was able to dry fire each stage of the course.

I suggest a blank wall so you can concentrate on the sights. If you use a target, you may be looking at the target instead of the sight alignment.

After a while, it really does become second nature and I can still deliver an accurate double action shot forty years after I learned how.

Kevin

[N4AUD]

Dry fire your DA trigger pull a lot, you might even do exercises to strengthen your shooting hand. Practice practice practice. Make sure your grip is straight all the time. Try pulling that trigger as slowly and controlled as possible when practicing. It goes without saying but I'll say it anyway- Don't jerk the trigger. I used to dry fire constantly to practice my DA shooting. I got pretty good at it.

[bedbugbilly]

RedHawk - I think you probably voice what a lot of us experience - especially if a person has shot SA for many years and then starts to shoot DA. I admire those that I see at the ranges, etc. that can nail a fly at fifty paces in DA! LOL

I shot SA for probably 45 years - mainly BP shooting. Then I discovered "cartridges" and "vintage" revolvers like my Colt Army Special, Smith M & P, etc. I don't shoot competition but I knew I needed to "learn" DA shooting for what I would be carrying for CCW (Smith Model 36). For me, the learning process was not easy and is still an on-going process. I'm getting better and have no problem putting rounds in "critical mass" but I doubt I would do well in Pin shooting, etc. where the "pressure" - whether "real" or "self imposed" adds to the stress of doing well.

In the end . . . it's like anything else . . . practice, practice and then more practice. One thing that has helped me is to have several who are good with DA shooting watch me and see where I need to improve/change - whether in grip, stance or trigger pull. Fortunately several good shooters have been kind enough to do this and make suggestions which in the long run, have helped greatly. I'll never be an "Annie Oakley" - too old, eyes not the best but at least I can hit what I may need to - whether in SD, shooting cans or critters.

As has been mentioned above by those who know . . trigger pull method is "everything". That's one thing I have found out in learning to shoot DA. I am a "revolver guy" but do have a 9mm SR9 and recently picked up a S & W 9mm Shield as I want to switch off once in a while with my Model 36 for CCW at times. The Shield of course is a DA only and as I am "learning" the handgun, I have been concentrating the most on learning the "trigger pull". I have had to learn to "pull", not squeeze. I'm used to shooting my Uberti 357 Bisley where I can squeeze the SA trigger and shoot well with it. The Shield, when I first shot it was hitting low to the left - all due to my trasferring my SA pull to that handgun,

Keep at it and you'll get it down. If a person had always shot DA only in revolver, it'd be "old hat" but there is a difference as far as I'm concerned in the method between SA and DA shooting. As I said, I admire those greatly who can shoot well in DA. I sometimes wonder how someone who had always shot DA - with a revolver with adjustable sights, etc. would do if they switched to shooting a SAA with just a blade and groove frame sight or a much cruder sighting method like the post front sight and hammer notch on my '51 Navy. Especially when you throw in the use of "Kentucky windage" when needed. I think they would have the same "learning issues" . . but with practice, they'd pick it up in time.

Good luck . . . don't get discouraged as you'll get it down I'm sure.

[Thin Man]

I fired many DA rounds in the PPC game, back in the day. The technique I developed and taught then (now also) is to place the trigger finger at the BOTTOM of the trigger. This will give you the greatest amount of leverage against the resistance of the heavier trigger weight. This feels as if one is pulling DOWN on the trigger rather than straight to the rear. I like feeling the trigger guard rub against the shooting finger to confirm I am on the bottom of the trigger. This give me greater control of the trigger and makes "staging" the trigger travel much easier. Give this a try, it may work out for you. By the way, I use the second segment of my trigger finger to move the trigger.

Thin Man

[Rick Hodges]

Dry fire practice....dry fire, dry fire, and dry fire some more. Watch your sights all the way including when the hammer strikes home. Fight the front sight all the way til impact....if your sights bobble upon hammer fall, keep practicing. You cannot see what is happening with live fire. Your sight settings should be the same.

[Walkingwolf]

If it is not mentioned you may try stacking your trigger, it is a old time techineque that Colt DA revolvers were particularly good for. I just tried my GP100 and it stacks fair. I doubt the redhawk is much different.

Since you state you are pulling the trigger more slow than quick do not complete your pull. When you feel it reach the point of breaking, stop, and then align the sights and finish the pull. This mostly only works on revolvers, will not work at all on semi auto light switch triggers. It is not talked about much anymore, and most newer shooters without talking to someone ancient do not hear about it. It takes a lot of practice dry firing to become competitive using stacking.

[FergusonTO35]

I can shoot my S&W model 10's, Ruger Service Six, and Taurus 82 pretty good double action. The key is focus on the front sight, never take your gaze off it. On a good day you will be amazed at how accurate double action can be.

[Scharfschuetze]

All good advice above and a few spot on as to why you're hitting differently with the DA pull against the SA pull.

I haven't shot SA with any regularity with a Smith or Colt revolver in close to 40 years even though I shoot them several times a month. My DA zeros are just spot on as a result; but they do not differ from the SA zeros either. This was important for me as an LEO using fixed sighted Model 65 and 58 revolvers on duty. Here are some tips from my time as a firearms training officer on the PD as well as an instructor in the Army.

A straight through pull on the trigger without pressure to either side will ensure that you're not pushing or pulling the revolver off of its zero. You should also try and have the recoil come straight through the web of your hand when it is centered over the revolver's back strap and then straight though axially with your radial and ulnar bones of the forearm. This will keep the revolver from recoiling away from your intended point of aim. Another helpful tip is to keep the web of your hand up as high up as possible on the back strap to negate as much as possible the flip of the muzzle when shooting. It not only will flip up in recoil, but also away from the target latterly depending on your grip. When shooting with both hands, push forward slightly with your strong hand and pull back slightly with your support hand and keep your grip the same throughout each shot. This will also help to mitigate muzzle flip and bullet displacement. It all adds up to consistency from shot to shot for every shot.

As noted above, some revolver designs lend themselves to DA shooting better than others. That's probably why all the serious contenders in PPC shooting that I shot against (best shooters from several different police departments) in the 70s and 80s all used S&W revolvers; although I did use a Colt Python for a while in the service revolver class. I replaced it with an L Frame Smith when those became available in the early 80s.

Once you get it all mastered with your strong hand, then master it with your weak hand at 25 and 50 yards. Once again, you'll probably see a lateral difference in your zero at first until you get things sorted out.

Of course all the other fundamentals of shooting also apply for each and every shot: Stance, grip; trigger pull, breathing to oxygenate your blood between shots; sight alignment, sight picture; follow through, and calling the shot.

As far as keeping both or just one open when shooting, it is really best to keep both eyes open. This helps prevent eye strain and prevents the brain from trying to adjust to two different pupil diameters or contractions. If you are having trouble focusing on your front sight with both eyes open, just place a strip of translucent or opaque tape over the shooting glass lens of your non-shooting eye. This will help immensely in target shooting. For field or combat shooting, both eyes open will help with range estimation, night vision and your peripheral vision, all important factors in hunting or social work.

Bowling pin shooting is a hoot. I hope you get your DA zero worked out.

[Blackwater]

You've been given some pretty good advice above. Mostly, all I can really add is that for DA shooting, the right grips that fit your hand and position the fingers and web of your hand just right are a REAL big plus in DA shooting. If your local LGS will let you snap some revolvers on empty (which really shouldn't be a problem if they know their guns well), experiment with various grips until you find a set where when the trigger breaks, the muzzle doesn't dip down and to the side (messed up follow through). You'll likely notice significant difference between grips. Some find round butt stocks can give better and more consistent results than the square butt grips. The most crucial measurement is from the center back of the grip where the web of your hand is, around the side to the trigger. Measure that and record it somewhere, when you find just the right grips for you, because it'll likely come in handy at a later date.

A good way to customize grips is to get a smooth set so you can slowly change their dimensions to suit your individual hand. All hands are different and unique, and this may well be the best of all ways to get a really good set of grips for your purposes. When you get the right set of grips, your DA sight setting and SA setting shold be the same, and in the field or the streets, that is a BIG plus, and worth a lot of effort to find.

If you look at many custom grips designed specifically for DA shooting, you'll find that most are whatever girth at the top puts your sized hand in proper position for the right reach to the trigger, which should be with the crease of the first joint just to the outside of the trigger, with the pad firmly centered on the trigger. The filler below the frame between the trigger guard and grip frame should be just the right depth to allow your trigger finger to work independently from the 3 fingers gripping the grip. From there, they'll oval out to where the pad of your gripping hand contacts it so as to handle recoil best and allow quicker 2nd and subsequent shots. From there, it'll oval down to a smaller butt so that your 3rd and pinky fingers don't induce any excess of downward force, which is what usually makes many grips cause you to pull your shots down and to the side a bit when the trigger releases.

Good grips DO matter, and make it MUCH quicker and easier to become a good DA shot, and to maintain consistency with the gun over a wide range of uses and shooting matches. They CAN be a LOT more significant than most shooters give them credit for. I tried all manner of grips on my K-frame Smiths, and finally wound up with a set of smooth walnut magnas that I customized slowly and very deliberately until I got them "right," and they really served me well for a long time. Definitely worth the time and "trouble," and doing this taught me an awful lot about what works and what doesn't, and THAT kind of knowledge isn't obtained usually with off the shelf grips, and shooting. I've come to rather detest rubber grips of any type because they tend to grab your shirt when drawing from a CCW position with a close holding holster, while good smooth grips will re-seat into your hand naturally, and thus provide your best shooting with a hasty draw, should you ever need to do that, and if you ever DO need to do that, then you'll need to do it awfully fast and awfully good - a situation that's well worth a little fun experimenting and learning. Give it a try and see if you don't agree. Just look at how your hand lays on various grips, and sand lightly and slowly until you find what works for you. Smooth grips aren't hard to find, and let you do this type of thing more easily, and any good finish you like, well done and polished out, should look really nice when you're done, giving you a real source of pride. And often, you'll find others wanting to shoot your gun just to see what the grips will do for them, too.

Educating yourself about all things shooting, especially those things that can really add to your proficiency and effectiveness and speed, can be VERY satisfying, and lead you to understand more fully WHY certain things work more or less well across the board. This will save you MUCH money in the long run, too, which is always nice, especially since it'll really help your shooting a LOT, usually, including speed and time.

[hp246]

I think Der Gebirgsjager identified your problem. I saw many response talk about dry firing. Yes, it's important, but one of the things that really causes your flaws to stick out is a good round of ball and dummy. Shoot a couple of cylinders. Reload with five live rounds and one empty round. Spin the cylinder and close with out looking. Now engage your target. When you hit the empty round you will really learn what is going on with your sights breathing and trigger control.

[Petrol & Powder]

"...Since I am shooting double action exclusively for pin shooting the sights are set for double action shooting. These settings pretty much put me center of the target. ..."

There is NO reason to set the sights differently for SA vs. DA shooting. There is a fundamental problem with this mindset. The shooter is attempting to use the sights to compensate for the longer/heavier DA pull.

The very first thing the OP needs to do is set the sights for the load & range and then STOP playing with the sights. There is no such thing as a DA setting for sights. After the sights are set.....LEAVE THEM ALONE !!!! One of the great advantages of fixed sights is the inability to play with them.

Practice shooting DA with a standard load and build muscle memory and grip strength until you can pull the trigger in DA without moving the sights off target. It does require practice with both dry fire and live ammunition but DA shooting can be very accurate. The key is to eliminate all variables (load, range, sights, etc. ) and practice shooting in double action. DA shooting takes time to master but it is surprisingly accurate. Practice is the key.

[tomme boy]

Get yourself a mainspring kit for the Match Champion. It will lower the DA pull a bunch. I think 12 lbs is the factory. I put in a 10 lb and it made a big difference in mine. The other spring I dont remember the name of it is already the lighter one in the gun straight from Ruger.

[Fluxed]

My dry fire practice allowed me to be competitive in PPC shooting. With an empty revolver, I would sight in on a blank wall and do a deliberate slow pull on the trigger. If the sights moved out of alignment, I knew the problem was with my pull. Once I was able to pull straight through slowly, I started working on my cadence. Soon enough, I was able to dry fire each stage of the course.

I suggest a blank wall so you can concentrate on the sights. If you use a target, you may be looking at the target instead of the sight alignment.

After a while, it really does become second nature and I can still deliver an accurate double action shot forty years after I learned how.

Kevin

^ THIS ^

Work at it slow and then when that's perfect, speed up, and then again until you have the accuracy and speed you want.

[Mk42gunner]

If you have the rear sight moved all the way to the left; you are pulling the gun right while pulling the trigger, and using the sights to compensate.

You need to figure out if you are doing it with the trigger finger or if you are gripping with all your fingers while pulling the trigger. Once you grip the gun, the only thing that should move is your trigger finger. It is harder than it sounds to move one finger independent of the other three, but it can be done.

You are not trying to milk a cow, you are trying to press a trigger.

Robert

[Lead Fred]

I shot my SA, SA, and my DA, SA!

Carried SAs my whole life. Dont even mess with the DA

[Three44s]

A lot of good advice thus far.

I concur on setting sights for SA and figuring out why you are hitting somewhere else in DA. It should not be that way.

I shot at a lot of different things starting out and finally settled on golf balls. Very good contrast except in snow and they take a lickin' and keep on tickin'.

I find that the DA dry and live fire helps smooth triggers and build muscle memory and tone. What's not to like?

Being a farmer/rancher I find that I could "single the double" as Elmer Keith put it in his iconic book: Sixguns ......... it just goes with working out doors with your hands.

Now one word of caution about the Ruger DA's ...... watch out for lite primer strikes when you start swapping out springs. I should know, as my RH and previous SRH had been lightened by the same GS and they both had to be fed with the Federal primer series to preclude having FTF's.

Best of luck and best regards

Three 44s

[StrawHat]

Once you practice and have the trigger pull to where it does not disturb the sights, then you add speed. Anyone can shoot the shots in the time required, the winners do it accurately.

Kevin

[Petrol & Powder]

I concur with Three44's with a caveat. Ruger DA's come from the factory with strong springs, far too strong in my experience. You can reduce the spring weight a little and do nothing else and improve the DA pull considerably without reducing the reliability of the gun. I can never remember the spring weights but basically you drop the main spring by a few pounds and sometimes the trigger return spring by a little bit as well.
However, if you want to reduce the spring weights more than just a few pounds you must also smooth up the action in conjunction with the reduced spring weights in order to maintain reliability.
I believe Ruger double actions are very well made guns but they suffer a bit from a lack of internal polishing and fitting. IMO, Ruger compensates for that lack of internal polishing by using springs that are a bit more robust than needed in order to ensure 100% functioning.
I've worked on a small pile of Ruger DA revolvers over the years have found that one can safety reduce the mainspring by a few pounds and easily maintain 100% functioning with any primer but in order to go any lower than just a few pounds; one must do a fair amount of polishing as well. Reducing the weight of the trigger spring will reduce the perceived pull weight but it comes at the cost of slower trigger reset as well.

Polishing lockwork is basically introducing artificial and accelerated wear into the gun. It produces fast results but not necessarily better results than practice. It also short-circuits practice time with the gun.
Char Gar may wish to chime in here because I believe he may share these sentiments. The best way to improve the action of a good quality revolver is to shoot the revolver and shoot it often.

Ruger DA revolvers come from the factory with very heavy springs and you can drop the mainspring weight by a few pounds and still have a completely reliable revolver with any decent cartridge AND greatly improve the DA action. It is possible to take that improved action even farther with even lighter mainsprings, lighter trigger return springs and careful polishing but that is when the reliability window gets narrow. In addition, there is little benefit in performing that work when plain old practice will smooth out the action AND improve your skill at the same time. There is no artificial substitute for practice.

So, To recap : you can drop the mainspring on a Ruger DA by a few pounds and improve the action while maintaining 100% reliability.
You can go farther with the modifications but there are diminishing returns of doing so. The best "bang for your buck" is a slightly reduced power mainspring and a lot of practice.

Good Luck and remember, "Beware of the man with only one gun......he probably knows how to use it."

[MBTcustom]

I concur with Three44's with a caveat. Ruger DA's come from the factory with strong springs, far too strong in my experience. You can reduce the spring weight a little and do nothing else and improve the DA pull considerably without reducing the reliability of the gun. I can never remember the spring weights but basically you drop the main spring by a few pounds and sometimes the trigger return spring by a little bit as well.
However, if you want to reduce the spring weights more than just a few pounds you must also smooth up the action in conjunction with the reduced spring weights in order to maintain reliability.
I believe Ruger double actions are very well made guns but they suffer a bit from a lack of internal polishing and fitting. IMO, Ruger compensates for that lack of internal polishing by using springs that are a bit more robust than needed in order to ensure 100% functioning.
I've worked on a small pile of Ruger DA revolvers over the years have found that one can safety reduce the mainspring by a few pounds and easily maintain 100% functioning with any primer but in order to go any lower than just a few pounds; one must do a fair amount of polishing as well. Reducing the weight of the trigger spring will reduce the perceived pull weight but it comes at the cost of slower trigger reset as well.

Polishing lockwork is basically introducing artificial and accelerated wear into the gun. It produces fast results but not necessarily better results than practice. It also short-circuits practice time with the gun.
Char Gar may wish to chime in here because I believe he may share these sentiments. The best way to improve the action of a good quality revolver is to shoot the revolver and shoot it often.

Ruger DA revolvers come from the factory with very heavy springs and you can drop the mainspring weight by a few pounds and still have a completely reliable revolver with any decent cartridge AND greatly improve the DA action. It is possible to take that improved action even farther with even lighter mainsprings, lighter trigger return springs and careful polishing but that is when the reliability window gets narrow. In addition, there is little benefit in performing that work when plain old practice will smooth out the action AND improve your skill at the same time. There is no artificial substitute for practice.

So, To recap : you can drop the mainspring on a Ruger DA by a few pounds and improve the action while maintaining 100% reliability.
You can go farther with the modifications but there are diminishing returns of doing so. The best "bang for your buck" is a slightly reduced power mainspring and a lot of practice.

Good Luck and remember, "Beware of the man with only one gun......he probably knows how to use it."

This is a really great post.
I agree.

[coffeeguy]

The basics have been covered here...I prefer shooting DA because it seems smoother and allows me to keep my grip more consistent. Change something in your shooting sequence or style, and point of impact will probably change. I had my first pin shoot last week, used my 1911 and did, well, not so hot. One of the old hands who was timing me said after the fact, "You know you're using a revolver grip, right?" That made perfect sense; it came down to muscle memory. I chose the 1911 over my S&W 66 because I wanted that extra 2 rounds, but was shooting low and left and had more misses than I expected. Instead of re-learning my grip, I went back to the revolver and did fine... Progressing smoothly from right to left, shooting DA (which I almost always do), which let me re-acquire my sight picture on the move and by the time I was lined up with the next pin the hammer broke and it was like clockwork. Ditto on using the second segment to pull the trigger, but do what works best for you and your gun. Work on accuracy and consistency first, then speed; and save a lot of frustration!

[Bigslug]

Sounds like you're coming off the sights at the last instant to watch the impacts, rather than staying on them all the way through. You probably do this on SA too, only the effect is less pronounced.

[fourarmed]

I would strongly advise you to reread Blackwater's post carefully. Since you are pulling the gun to the right consistently, it is probably because your grips force you to turn the gun to the right in your hand a little in order to get the first joint on the trigger. I am not familiar enough with Redhawks to know what is available in aftermarket grips, but you need something to shorten the reach. Possibly the small Magna-type grips with a Tyler T-grip adapter or similar would be the way to go.

I recently start using a round butt N-frame Smith for DA shooting, and I was lucky enough to get a set of the Jerry Miculek grips with it. They give about the shortest reach you can get on an N-frame. Unless you can easily palm a basketball, reach is always going to be a problem when shooting DA on the larger revolvers.

[Blackwater]

P&P's post, and GS's echoes are right, but I've never had the patience or time to wait to do it that way. The quickest/best way to get a really good pull has proven, at least to me, to be a LIGHT polishing with no coarser than 400 and usually 600 grit wet or dry using popsickle sticks cut to fit each mortise. No need to overdo it, really, and if you've never done it before, less is always more. Keeps you from doing anything you'll regret later. You can always come back and polish more, but you can't put back anything you remove. Age old principle and always one to be followed. Deburr anywhere it looks necessary. Use 600 grit for this only.

Next, get a set of lighter springs. Try them, but this too can be carried too far, and guns sometimes vary as to how much is too light. If you get failure to fire due to light firing pin indents, add more mainspring strength. Another key to doing good, reliable lightening of trigger pull is getting the bolt (cylinder locking bolt) spring light enough to work with the springs you're using. If this spring isn't lightened to balance with the lighter mainspring, your cylinder may not lock up reliably, and getting the cylinder bolt locking spring too heavy for lighter spring sets CAN do this, so watch for that.

Mainly, though, DA revolver shooting is something that is, has always been, and likely always will be, acquired ONLY through GOOD practice. By that, I don't mean just going out and shooting repetitively, but noticing what you're doing as you shoot - catching yourself when you pull right, left, up or down, and figuring out why you did it. It may well be due to ill fitting grips. The handgun is the least powerful (generally) and hardest to shoot accurately firearm we can use, so it takes more skill and practice to get good with it than with other arms. With DA revolvers, we get a std. grip from the factories, but we're not all built the same. We have different finger lengths and girths, differing hand/palm sizes with differing amounts of "meat" on them, and the difference between finger lengths varies, so naturally, good grips HAVE to vary accordingly.

Fortunately, this isn't hard to achieve, but it's not a "quick fix" overnight thing, and it too needs some attention. Just notice how your grips fit and what that fit tends to make your fingers do. Sand accordingly. You can even add bondo to a grip, and then send them off to be duplicated on a pantograph in some decent wood or other grip materials, so they just fit your hand exactly. It really does make a difference. Good grips, for instance, tend to seat in your hands right with the first shot, so that if you ever grip them hastily and don't get a perfect grip, recoil from the first shot seats it back into your hands and 2nd and subsequent shots are where you want them to be. That's no small thing, especially if you're ever in a hurry.

It takes some time to adapt a decent set of grips to fit your hand really well, but it pays off, and what's the point in keeping on using grips that don't fit your hand quite right? One size fits all grips, usually just don't fit most people, but most struggle along for an awful long time before they get tired of it and start seeking a set that really fits well. But it's very much worth it, and can help take you further and faster than any other factor I know of in DA shooting.

Some folks are better at adapting than others, and learn the "feel" of the right grip faster and better than others, but even then, grips that don't quite fit the hand well will always be a barrier. Some just cross those barriers easier than ohters, but only good grips will minimize the variations in your shooting. That's my experience, at least, and what I've observed in a number of others. Get the right grip, and it's MUCH easier to get good fast.

[RedHawk357Mag]

Anyone tried the Eagle custom grips? Thinking the smooth rosewood would probably be a good starting place. Never shot the RH double action with the stock panels. I should probably check that out as well... I absolutely know I did not like them on the 44. Actually probably never shot the 357 with stock panels as I bought the 357 after the 44. Dry firing with blank paper has pointed out a few things as well. Some gripping positions allow me maintain better sight alignment through out the pull. The current Hogue grips aren't helpful in achieving that type of grip with out a very purposeful two handed tinkering to accomplish it. I recently replaced the mainspring as I was getting quite a few FTF with Cci small pistol primers. I changed to the ten pound spring and honed the hammer face slightly to help with primer strikes. Increased dbl action reliability and smoother pull as well. Thanks a bunch for all the information stated so far.

[Blackwater]

" Some gripping positions allow me maintain better sight alignment through out the pull."

NOW you're REALLY learning to shoot DA revolver! When you start noticing what works and what creates unnecessary problems, you're on the road to getting probably MUCH better than you may have thought you COULD be! Just keep it up, and keep searching/trying grips, and you'll find what works for YOU. It really doesn't matter if it works just right for anyone else. These are YOUR guns, and they need to fit YOUR hand, and that's all there is to it. And it really can be amazing how much a good grip can aid you in both your accuracy and particularly with your CONSISTENCY. If a grip tends to place your fingers and hand parts in the right place to ALLOW your trigger finger to make a smooth, consistent, straight back trigger pull, and places your fingers so that any tendency you may have to jerk the gun right, left, up or down with your two lower fingers on your grip, how could that NOT help you?

It takes some time and shooting to get quick and accurate at the same time, but good grips that allow your hand and fingers to work right and smoothly and consistently, and thus fit your hand, really aid in developing both the speed and the accuracy we all aspire to. With prices what they are today, that's not great news, but .... it's just the way it is. I'm sure I could have bought another gun along the way with all the grips I've tried in my time, but one really good gun that really fits and is customized to your hand will beat a whole passel of so-so guns with grips that just don't quite fit your hand. In the end, handgunning is really all about delivering one shot that hits the target precisely where you intended it to, and not about volume of fire, etc. And the benefit is that when you find what works for you best, you can duplicate it MUCH more easily and reliably with like grips, and maybe a few small pieces of sandpaper. It's one of those gifts that just keeps on giving back to you in your shooting lifetime, and that ain't no small thing!

[Petrol & Powder]

I've used a lot of Eagle grips over the years but not on a RedHawk. They are decent grips, I put them in the affordable "semi-custom" classification. I've had very good luck with Pachmayr's and Rugers but grips are a VERY individual thing so what works for one person doesn't always works for someone else. The rosewood grips are nice and the color goes all the way through so you can sand on them and simply re-oil with linseed oil to return then to the original finish.
The 10# main spring sounds about right. BTW, de-burring & polishing the portion of the roughly stamped hammer strut that passes through the lower spring seat is an easy mod that yields positive results. Not sure what you mean by honing the hammer face but you can take a little material off the hammer face (0.020") to improve the strike to the firing pin. The Ruger DA hammer actually strikes the frame even when the transfer bar is in the raised position. By removing just a little material you can gain a little more transfer of force to the firing pin but this is seldom necessary. If you take too much material off you have to reduce the thickness of the transfer bar to restore functioning. Proceed carefully if you go that route.

[FergusonTO35]

I've gone to using the the area right above the first joint of the trigger finger for all my pistols and rifles. None of my guns have a light trigger pull and the extra leverage helps me keep it steady. Using the fingertip does work on a really light single action but that's about it.