Trying to figure it out

[mustanggt]

I've been shooting greasers for about 6 years in two CSA 1874 rifles, a 45/70 and 50/90. Ive had to contend with some verticle stringing over this whole time but finally it dawned on me that my hold off the bench has not been consistent at all. Sunday I really bared down on my techniqe and was rewarded with groups starting to round out. Am I on the right path? My loads are 75gr of 3f Swiss or Kik, 30 hdpe wad and Seaco 745 bullet or Creedmoor design of around 525grs. Big 50 has been 100-115gr of 1f Kik and a 625gr Creedmoor and 30 hdpe wad. Thank you.

[Gunlaker]

I think working on holding is one of the most important things you can do. My shooting has improved a lot in the last two years when I slowed down the load development and worked on prone shooting technique instead. I only very rarely shoot from positions other than prone nowadays.

I can take my best loads and make them into poor loads with just a little inconsistency in form. I think it takes years to develop really good technique and make it second nature.. At least it is for me ( or maybe I'm a slow learner ) as I continue to find little ways to improve. :-)

Chris.

[mustanggt]

Thank you Chris. It was quite the epiphany for me to suddenly realize this.

[freedom475]

2 of the biggest improvements that I ever made to my shooting BPCR:

1...Keep your free hand off the forend stock!! Instead cradle the buttstock near the buttplate with it...Pretty common knowledge, but I still see a lot of folks holding the forend. And that fella that hurt his hand this June would sure be a lot better off if he would have been following this rule when his rifle blew-up.

2...Stop re-sizing cases! Annealing made a big difference, but to stop sizing all-together, totally removes a variable from the loads...Cannot believe how much this improves and simplifies things for me and my loading.

[rfd]

i think it's more about the overall shooting form and trigger finger than the load, assuming the load recipe is reasonable.

that and using fire formed brass and only using a press for the compression die. :)

[mustanggt]

All my brass is fire formed and zero neck tension on the bullet. I'll try keeping my hand off the forearm.

[freedom475]

I love this game!!:mrgreen: You might enjoy a couple pics from my album http://castboolits.gunloads.com/album.php?albumid=995 ...couple crazy groups too.

In this pic you can see my gong shooting form. This is a 1/2 mile shot( I had to change this distance cause I forgot..lol (thanks Don!)....hat touching the sight-staff, chin touching stock, (this is a military stock too). Elbows to my knees with everything lined up as plum as I can get them, with heels touching the ground....off-hand snuggled into my shoulder pocket controlling rifle cant. And shooting sticks plumb or leaning back!! If your sticks lean forward they will lift your shot as the bullet leaves the barrel!

...Check out the sight height of the lady setting beside me.:-o

This picture caught my hammer in mid stroke of its' fall of my 45-70! If I' was shoot'n a 50-90..this pic "might-of" caught me with both eyes shut, and my head out of the way!@!!..LOL

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91143&d=1387585274

[smoked turkey]

freedom475 I can see from your pictures why you like it so much. I am such a newbie to this but it is so much fun. I am so green I don't even know what I don't know. Oh yes nice grizzly in your album. Right now I am working with a Sharps 1885 (?) in 45-120. It is a newer rifle and not an original. I would love to be able to see some of this camaraderie in person. Sorry. Didn't mean to send the original post off in another direction. I did take note of the comments on shooting form and believe they will help my shooting. Thanks to all for the tips.

[Don McDowell]

Wes, you sure that isn't a picture from the 1/2 mile buffalo at Medicine Rocks?

[freedom475]

Sure is Don!....I guess he was 880 yards..LOL I changed it....:mrgreen:

And this right here is what make this game so great!!! The folks you meet at the matches!!:bigsmyl2: You even recognized the backdrop of green grass!!...
You'd think I would remember cause I couldn't hit that Buffalo enough times to win the $1000 bucks..but I hit him enough times to win the match!!!.::mrgreen::mrgreen::drinks: But Penny's smile is worth $1000 and then some!!!!!!!!!

[Don McDowell]

Yup, that's one of my favorite gong matches. Lot's of good folks at that one. Someday I'll go back and get my vengeance on that *X@#! duck..:)

[Sharpsman]

Over the years of shooting BPCR my own experience has proven to me that if the shooter does not control the torque of these rifles using heavy charges of BP, accuracy can be dismal at best! I was once somewhat chastised by a computer buddy in that I needed a better 'forward rest'....rather than what you see rolled up in the below photo. I've shot off several mechanical rest devices and the rolled up shooting mat has consistently proven to be what works best...FOR ME and delivers consistent accuracy. My forward hand, which is the right goes up near the end of the forearm and I grip the rifle with my hand atop the mat and at the same time I exert downward pressure while making the shot and the POI is usually where I call the shot! As for shooting off of Xsticks...well....I'd just as soon be subjected to a five gallon cold water enema!! When I have shot off of Xsticks the accuracy has always been better when I gripped the rifle at the forward end of the forearm and exerted downward pressure. The bullets we shoot are s l o w....very much akin to shooting Eley 22 target ammo therefore the barrel time is much longer than shooting a smokeless powder centerfire cartridge and unless one has great follow-through and can control the torque....accuracy will suffer!

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7286/8739296635_a6773df922_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ejgbqc)Giving the Shiloh a workout! (https://flic.kr/p/ejgbqc) by Rick Mulhern (https://www.flickr.com/photos/61286670@N08/), on Flickr

What's gravy to one man.....is another man's poison!!

[Bent Ramrod]

Rick is spot on! The old books on Smallbore shooting mentioned that good Highpower shooters (of the era) who went into Smallbore to keep their hands in during the off-season sometimes found themselves doing very badly until they had gone back over first principles and retrained themselves.

The recoil and boom of the Highpower rifle and the short barrel time would allow a slight relaxation in the follow through or some sloppiness in trigger technique to creep into the picture unnoticed, and scores might not suffer greatly. With the long barrel time of the Smallbore rifle, they were ruinous.

With BPCR shooting, we have the worst of both worlds--long barrel time plus heavy recoil. Whatever your hold is, it must be consistent, and concentration total. I can sometimes hold all the forces together for five consecutive shots out of a BPCR, but going for more than that gets more difficult every shot.

[mustanggt]

I do shoot high power so you are right about that throwing off timing and technique. I have an old Savage 1919 NRA target rifle that I should shoot more to help with the timing aspect. Thanks for all the replies fellas.

[EDG]

I shoot these rifles off of a bench rest. Accuracy was ok but the recoil made the barrel move a lot on the bags.
I developed a bad habit of trying to hold down the rifle with my cheek. I later found that if I put my left hand on the front bag with the fingers gripping the fore end I noticed how much weight I was putting on the butt stock with my face. I was able to much better regulate the force my face put on the butt stock. Instead of 10 or 15 lbs it is more like 1 or 2 lbs now. Controlling the forend and reducing the force applied by my face helped my groups a lot.

[Bent Ramrod]

I seem to do best, off bench rest or cross sticks, by imagining myself as a "gun position." The barrel is on the cross sticks or the forend on the forward rest. I try to keep everything as horizontal as possible. With my trigger hand, I pull the buttplate firmly into my shoulder. My cheek is resting, not heavily, on the comb and side of the stock and my other hand is on the bottom of the forend ahead of the action. I try to hold the forend down, not tightly, and hold my cheek on the stock, not hard, but enough so the forend hold and cheek rest guide the gun straight back into my shoulder on recoil. If my sighting, breath, trigger management and follow through are consistent, the shot is "right there," within the group.

People who can do that exactly the same twenty or fifty or a hundred times in a row are as much athletes as marathon runners, .300 batters or cross-country skiers. I don't know how they do it.

[semtav]

In this pic you can see my gong shooting form. This is a 1/2 mile shot( I had to change this distance cause I forgot..lol (thanks Don!)....hat touching the sight-staff, chin touching stock, (this is a military stock too). Elbows to my knees with everything lined up as plum as I can get them, with heels touching the ground....off-hand snuggled into my shoulder pocket controlling rifle cant. And shooting sticks plumb or leaning back!! If your sticks lean forward they will lift your shot as the bullet leaves the barrel!





http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91143&d=1387585274


I haven't been doing much shooting off cross sticks while sitting for quite a while so thought I'd try your method at the match today. Sitting on a pad on the ground, it took me a few targets to get the hang of it but got 6/6 and 5/6 on the last couple targets, so it may be possible to learn new tricks. Doesn't appear you are sitting on the ground. you use a stool ?

[Lumpy grits]

I love this game!!:mrgreen: You might enjoy a couple pics from my album http://castboolits.gunloads.com/album.php?albumid=995 ...couple crazy groups too.

In this pic you can see my gong shooting form. This is a 1/2 mile shot( I had to change this distance cause I forgot..lol (thanks Don!)....hat touching the sight-staff, chin touching stock, (this is a military stock too). Elbows to my knees with everything lined up as plum as I can get them, with heels touching the ground....off-hand snuggled into my shoulder pocket controlling rifle cant. And shooting sticks plumb or leaning back!! If your sticks lean forward they will lift your shot as the bullet leaves the barrel!

...Check out the sight height of the lady setting beside me.:-o

This picture caught my hammer in mid stroke of its' fall of my 45-70! If I' was shoot'n a 50-90..this pic "might-of" caught me with both eyes shut, and my head out of the way!@!!..LOL

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91143&d=1387585274

I strongly suggest a strap-on cheek rest, so you can have some kind of consistent 'cheek-weld' to the stock.
LG