max distance

[white eagle]

I know this has been beat to death and I have heard all the arguments against handguns for bear defense.That aside,if you were carrying a hand gun for protection and last resort against bear attack where would you adjust your sights(Max distance?) [smilie=s:the line in the sand so to speak.The actual distance where you know that its time to either meet your maker or put the bear down.How close will you let a bear thats out to kill you bear get?

[wch]

I have the utmost faith in my Colt 1911; I have it sighted in at 50 yards and I suggest that anybody depending on a handgun should sight it in so that it shoots point of impact at the limit of point blank range.

[JSnover]

A better question is at what distance do you consider a bear to be a threat? "Last resort" means walking away, playing dead, running, and climbing didn't work. A 50 yard zero seems adequate to me.

[runfiverun]

you shoot a bear at 50 yds and you'll have lot's of explaining to do.
25yds is a bit too close for comfort, and is about the danger zone of charge or leave for the bear.
they don't see too well.
if they come in aim low.

[GhostHawk]

First I have to agree with wch.

If sighted in at 25 yards the difference between that and 50 yards should not be large. It is just my opinion, but it would seem to me that 50 yards is fire one shot in the air to give the bear a chance to turn around range. If the bear charges, your 25 yard zero should be right on the money. By the time it covers that 50 yards (Just a few seconds btw, they can flat as MOVE when they choose) you should be out of ammo and looking at other options, like finding a tree or an edged weapon, or scream like a girl as you assume the fetal position. By that time either the bear has changed his mind, is dead/wounded, or you are totally out of luck.

Do NOT run, all preditors seem have a built in "it moves, it runs, chase it and kill it" instinct.

Be aware of your surroundings, make enough noise so the bear hears you a distance off.

[JWT]

My 10yr old son is in Montanna (outside Kalispell) with his grandparents right now. Last night when he called home he told me he came on a bear in the woods at 50ft. He backed away slowly until out of sight and ran to the house. Not what a Dad wants to hear. I can't wait until he gets home Saturday. He's been gone 5 weeks.

[44man]

It will depend on the length of the barrel. 50 might be to far for a shorty. With my hunting revolvers, there is little difference from 10 to 50.

[white eagle]

added a few more lines
I wasn't referring to hunting bear per se but defending your person from enraged bear

[MT Gianni]

At times bears will false charge and stop @ 10 yards. In most States you will be in violation if you shoot at 25 yards or more. The reality is you get two shots of with a DA revolver if you are average, 3 if exceptional, I would take one shot away for single action and plan on 3 with a 45 auto. IMO, if a bear is 50 yards away he is where he wants to be adn you should be Ok with that.

[44man]

added a few more lines
I wasn't referring to hunting bear per se but defending your person from enraged bear
Yes, barrel rise with a big bore might need a closer sight setting. Carry guns in a big bore will be short with a huge rise so 50 will be too far. If I had Ruger Alaskan, I know 50 is a lark so I would sight for 10. Anything farther is hunting.

[MBTcustom]

I may be way off base here, but my Redhawk is zeroed at 50 yards. At 25 I can still hit pop cans.
Assuming a bear was charging me, I would be amazed if I could keep them all inside a paper plate at 25 yards given the effects of adrenaline on my system.
Fortunately for me however, most animals that have the ability to effect my nerves and aim are larger than a paper plate by a good margin.
In fact, one could say that the size of the creature is exponentially linked to the size of my groups, and therefore is of no consequence.

Seems to me, the important considerations are as follows:
1. Have a gun with you in the first place
2. Make sure you have practiced enough with it that the fine motor skills required to manipulate it are built in and rehearsed to the point that you can perform them under extreme duress.
3. Make sure both 1 and 2 happen with a firearm with enough thread in its shorts to get the job done.
4. Same point as #3 but pertaining to the ammunition.

[M-Tecs]

No Tim you are not way off base. As you are aware sight settings are just simple trig. Trajectory is more complicated since it is a parabolic curve.

Barrel length has no effect other than the value of the clicks on an iron sighted gun. Barrel rise from recoil is also not a factor. Sight height and trajectory are the only two considerations.

On an iron sighted handgun 25 or 50 yards makes very little difference since the bullet rises so little to the line of sight. On a scoped handgun sighting to close puts you way to high at 50 yards since the angle to get to the line of sight is so much greater.

This is for a scoped air rifle but it covers the basics fairly well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABp7nc_93jE

[MBTcustom]

Excellent!
Therefore, I suggest everyone print this thread out and keep it with you. If you find you are in a situation where you are being charged by a bear, pull it out and read it carefully. Make fine adjustments on the sights of your handgun and prepare to defend yourself properly with a fine 2" group in the chest of the charging bear. While your at it, sprinkle yourself with paprika salt and pepper.

Me, I'm going to pull my gun and shoot the **** bear and read the instructions later over a glass of iced tequila while I eat bear jerky.

[KnotRight]

If I see a bear 50 yards from me or should I say, if a bear sees me within 50 yards and I will shoot if it looks like he is coming. Who knows how far that bears was from me when I shot. Bears (or animals) can cover ground at a very short time. I will worry about the distance once I see the animal is down.

Flame suit is on

[Ola]

How about Howdah, a pistol that was used against tigers? Maybe it could teach us something?

Modern reproduction:http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_29/pistols-howdah-hunter.html

These were used at VERY short distances. When a tiger (or a bear) really attacks, the sighting distance is probably the last of your worries.

[white eagle]

How about Howdah, a pistol that was used against tigers? Maybe it could teach us something?

Modern reproduction:http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_29/pistols-howdah-hunter.html

These were used at VERY short distances. When a tiger (or a bear) really attacks, the sighting distance is probably the last of your worries.


OOOOOoooooooh that there is a great idea
they used to be available in 12 ga as well as 20 hmmmmmm. wonder if they still are :drinks:

[MBTcustom]

Lar45 has one as his avatar. I've seen it, and it is impressive.

[JSnover]

For my own purposes, a 50 yard zero means no worries about windage or elevation at any shorter distance.
If he's not attacking, neither of us has an issue. I'll just leave quietly.

[sixshot]

Most people visualize a bear charging from 50 yds & think they are looking at a whole bear, well, it usually doesn't happen that way. A bear is a predator & most times they like to get close before all hell breaks loose but if one does decide to charge from 50 yds figure on 3 seconds, yup, if its a full blown charge thats just enough time to get your gun out & no you won't be looking at a whole bear. He'll most likely be in some cover so you only see parts of him, are you counting....tick, tick, tick! You will probably only have a head shot & a bears head moves around a fair bit when he's running hard. If you were smart you drew your gun when you first seen him, no matter how far away he was, you never take a chance when you spot a bear, get your damn gun out now! Big bullets really help, if a bear means business, fast, light bullets are going to cause you a lot of grief. If his head is low & he's coming fast then he's all in, you better start hitting him, if his head is bobbing a bit & he's changing pace, you've got a pretty good chance he's bluffing. Just remember what I said about getting your gun out early, thats what the smart guys do. Tick, Tick, Tick!

Dick

[AKbushman49]

All the above info is good but relative. Lots of variables, Black or Brown bear, size, attitude of the bear, distance. I have seen a few browns put down, some go easy some go hard. Grant you these were large (800lbs+) problem brown bears. Other than finishing them off, it was done with large cal high powered rifles. I don't want to get into a flame war here, just stating an opinion based on some very scary personal experiences. I've lived in this state for 40+ yrs. Been in the SE where you have both blacks and browns (big ones) and worked on the remote coastal radio sites, with really big browns, not to mention Kodiak. Been stalked and charged by a few browns (Cape Hinchinbrook, Montegueue Is, Yakatat just to name a few) A large cal hand gun is the last resort in my opinion, yes its been done. But if one is to err do it one side of overkill. I prefer something that will put over a ton of energy into the "problem". Getting MEDIVACed is NOT an option. If one decides to shoot, shoot to kill, a lot of the "problem" bears had been shot before but not killed. They were a very angry, in pain creature, with a bad attitude, and were very difficult to put down. It's simply amazing how much punishment these animals can take and still keep coming. bushman

[44man]

All the above info is good but relative. Lots of variables, Black or Brown bear, size, attitude of the bear, distance. I have seen a few browns put down, some go easy some go hard. Grant you these were large (800lbs+) problem brown bears. Other than finishing them off, it was done with large cal high powered rifles. I don't want to get into a flame war here, just stating an opinion based on some very scary personal experiences. I've lived in this state for 40+ yrs. Been in the SE where you have both blacks and browns (big ones) and worked on the remote coastal radio sites, with really big browns, not to mention Kodiak. Been stalked and charged by a few browns (Cape Hinchinbrook, Montegueue Is, Yakatat just to name a few) A large cal hand gun is the last resort in my opinion, yes its been done. But if one is to err do it one side of overkill. I prefer something that will put over a ton of energy into the "problem". Getting MEDIVACed is NOT an option. If one decides to shoot, shoot to kill, a lot of the "problem" bears had been shot before but not killed. They were a very angry, in pain creature, with a bad attitude, and were very difficult to put down. It's simply amazing how much punishment these animals can take and still keep coming. bushman
Super post. Very true. But a BIG revolver can work. Some want a .32 or nine, maybe a 10mm.
Carry guns are sighted at 7 yards.
I suppose the smallest for me in bear country would be a .475. No I don't want it in a stinking 2" barrel. A rifle or shotgun is best but a longer barrel revolver will not work.
Everyone is a quick draw artist for the seconds a bear can reach you.
It has been proven a BG can reach you with a knife before you can draw and fire. Now a bear is much faster. He has more then one knife.
Then the fear and adrenaline kicks in so to hit anything means to carry the salt and pepper. Many can't hit a deer with a rifle.
The gun must be in hand, not a holster. You do not have time to draw. Toss the quick draw stuff.
do you sling a rifle across your back in bear country or is it in your hand? Same with a big revolver.
I do not want a stinking Ruger Alaskan.

[AKbushman49]

44man- Very true, Long Gun always in hand, at the ready when hunting. Not a scoped rifle either. Practice snap shooting. Pay attention. Same with magnum pistols, be VERY familiar with your weapon of choice. Practice some of the LE type training with popups. Always be alert. I live in mother murphy's bear country, if not prepared, you're praying it won't happen. bushman

[JSnover]

Do NOT run, all preditors seem have a built in "it moves, it runs, chase it and kill it" instinct.

Be aware of your surroundings, make enough noise so the bear hears you a distance off.

Can't remember when or where but I was taught all predators respond the same way, if you're small enough for them to eat: Running will trigger the "persue" response.
I was also warned that if a bear (or other large carnivore) sees you first, don't try to hide. A lot of predators prefer to attack from a concealed position. If you're trying to conceal yourself, they think you're preparing to attack them.
Stand still or walk away. Make noise if you want to.

[44man]

Good thoughts. Even deer respond to hiding and will vacate the area. They get very nervous when you freeze.

[dk17hmr]

I carry a Glock 20 10mm with a stout load in the mountains. I don't really use the sights when I'm shooting it so I don't know where it is dead nuts sighted in at. Chances are if I'm shooting a bear with it were it is sighted in doesn't matter because there are going to be powder burns on the bear.

[white eagle]

I am not sure if I relayed the intent of this post very well
the point where there is no doubt that if you don't shoot to kill you become bear scat
some of the replies were for actual sight in of revo that was not my intent
thanks
I want to have my b.i.l practice for defense from attack of large predator
I know all big predators cats,wolves and bears attack differently but he will most likely encounter bears

[MBTcustom]

Well I'll tell you one thing, learning to shoot a magnum handgun accurately in DA mode is a very valuable skill to foster. I've been working on that this year, and I think I'm starting to get the hang of it. Last time I was out at WLL with Glenn and Leah, I was hammering the heck out of a steel plate at 40-50 yards DA. I was tagging it 4 out of 6 IIRC, and that was a really awesome experience! I couldn't believe I was actually doing it! With hot loads of 310 Lee under 2400 no less! Magnum handgun DA has been my Achilles heal for years, and I fee like I'm getting real close to plugging that hole.
Seems like shooting DA should be a priority for anyone thinking of defending themselves from a charging bear eh?

[44man]

None of us will be like Jerry with the speed he can shoot so we need to depend on the first shot.
Get to the big bores and barrel rise will beat you.
The .44 is not bad, we used to put cardboard in a tire and roll it down a steep hill. Dump 6 shots from a 29 into the cardboard double action. It would checker my palm is all.
You can get very good DA but it takes constant shooting.
The worst thing you will face with a bear is getting the gun out and on the bear. You can be a quick draw expert with 10 hours a day practice. That means EVERY day.
I used to hold a pistol in my left hand, throw a bottle as hard and far as I could with my right arm, grab the gun and break the bottle. Stop for a week and I had to start all over again tossing one up with my left hand.
DA shooting is the same, EVERY day.
I go into bear country I want the gun in hand. I want a big enough gun too. Bad thing about a bear is he can be a bush away.

[Lefty Red]

I read that your sidearm it going to be for bear protection and not hunting. If so, them you sight it in at 10 yards and practice DA shooting with full charged carry ammo. Actually, you won't see your sights if it happens. If you trained (and it doesn't take allot, maybe 5-10 sets of triples once a week) you will shoot where you look at. Some dry firing practice couple times a week as well for muscle memory. Shot allot of weapons in CQB situations in both Saudi and IDOC. What your grouping at 25 or 50 yards don't mean squat if you can't put 3 round in a 12" area quickly at arms distance.

Good luck,
Jerry

[44man]

I read that your sidearm it going to be for bear protection and not hunting. If so, them you sight it in at 10 yards and practice DA shooting with full charged carry ammo. Actually, you won't see your sights if it happens. If you trained (and it doesn't take allot, maybe 5-10 sets of triples once a week) you will shoot where you look at. Some dry firing practice couple times a week as well for muscle memory. Shot allot of weapons in CQB situations in both Saudi and IDOC. What your grouping at 25 or 50 yards don't mean squat if you can't put 3 round in a 12" area quickly at arms distance.

Good luck,
Jerry
PRACTICE! My little groups mean squat at 2 or 3 feet. Speed without thinking is where it will be. You can do it, just keep at it. All I figure is I want the boolit to exit the bears butt if I hit it.
I will never be in that position anyway since I stay home. The most dangerous thing here is a mean chipmunk!

[Lefty Red]

I respect you views and seek your wisdom man times, 44man. No disrespect meant.

Yes, you want something to punch through the beast. But instead of relying on one well placed shot, maybe two or three good placed shots as close to center mass is better than a miss.

And have you considered a cat to keep the chipmunks away? :)

Jerry

[white eagle]

I agree with practice in shooting
I never really considered speed and draw
these things I will be telling my bil to practice on
the boolit will be a 320 gr.from Accurate
I have had a deep respect for this design (lfn-gc)
and boolit for along time

[44man]

I respect you views and seek your wisdom man times, 44man. No disrespect meant.

Yes, you want something to punch through the beast. But instead of relying on one well placed shot, maybe two or three good placed shots as close to center mass is better than a miss.

And have you considered a cat to keep the chipmunks away? :)

Jerry
Every thing is better then a miss. But it comes down to time.

[Bigslug]

Sighting distance? I thought the best technique for defending yourself against bear attack was to slow your hunting partner down with a .25ACP in the leg. . .

[Geezer in NH]

Me I will just pray Lord let me hit center Mass with every discharge.

Pucker factor is real, for a bear stopper load and bear protection/stop a 12ga brenneke slug is my choice.

[MBTcustom]

Me I will just pray Lord let me hit center Mass with every discharge.

Pucker factor is real, for a bear stopper load and bear protection/stop a 12ga brenneke slug is my choice.

Oh yeah. Nice!
On that note, leave us not forget the .730 round ball 12gauge load in a good semi auto shotgun, an 1895 loaded with 405gr SWC, or a good old fashioned M1A (the original bear medicine). I'm especially fond of the M1A!

[Digital Dan]

I know this has been beat to death and I have heard all the arguments against handguns for bear defense.That aside,if you were carrying a hand gun for protection and last resort against bear attack where would you adjust your sights(Max distance?) [smilie=s:the line in the sand so to speak.The actual distance where you know that its time to either meet your maker or put the bear down.How close will you let a bear thats out to kill you bear get?

There's been some good advice on this already, but the thing that strikes me about the inquiry is this. If you're concerned about where to sight the gun (distance) your head is already on the platter. Knowing the gun and being proficient would be the path to salvation.

Might be the last thing you would do with a bear charging is squint down the sights to make sure you hit where you want to hit.

[white eagle]

actually I really have no concern at all over where the gun is sighted
what I was interested in is where you would actually draw and fire on a eminent attack
the information was for my BIL who travels into big boy territory

[akmac]

As was already mentioned you should draw when you first see or hear the bear. When to shoot is a decision you need to make based upon your experience and your proficiency. Sometimes due to brush and undergrowth you won't have an opportunity to take a good shot until they are very up close and personal. I would rather wait a few seconds and be sure of a good headshot then to take an iffy body shot in the brush. I say this with the voice of experience, been there, done that and had to clean out my drawers later...

[Teddy (punchie)]

Most people just don't listen. They ask how did you make that shot? How did you miss?

All comes down to shouldering a rifle and pointing a pistol. You have to teach your self by shouldering that long gun, with your eyes shut is your target close. Now about 50 yds away off to side without looking, find an object in your peripheral view, shoulder gun see if the object is close. Repeat until your getting it. Do the same with a pistol but pointing it. If you are deer hunting and try to scope a deer and have trouble getting it in the scope this is why, practice and practice. If your firearm is sighted in there no need to shoot it unless your wanting to, bullet will go where you tell it to. The gun doesn't need practice you need to aim it, point it, tell the bullet where to go. I'm all for shooting but time and time I see it is just noise and not of value for most. (95% or more) never make daily , even weekly trips to range. Me I shoot one season and maybe two fall and winter. Sight-in is a few shots. Not too often do I miss, put I have from time to time. Darn shotguns are a different story LOL I'm good one minute and miss everything the next, LOL that the only firearm I like to make noise with.

44 mag. loaded with 200-220 gr. xtp moving near max load. Is what I would use on black bears.

Personally I'm a first shot person, I joke but at range with pistol, 50 yds. 44 mag. weeks between shooting 50 yds. first shot, 1.5 high that where is sighted in for. Guys at range asked for me to shoot the rest, I ask why. No reason to. Any way the rest of the shots were every where all over the paper and one missed.

[taco650]

Excellent!
Therefore, I suggest everyone print this thread out and keep it with you. If you find you are in a situation where you are being charged by a bear, pull it out and read it carefully. Make fine adjustments on the sights of your handgun and prepare to defend yourself properly with a fine 2" group in the chest of the charging bear. While your at it, sprinkle yourself with paprika salt and pepper.

Me, I'm going to pull my gun and shoot the **** bear and read the instructions later over a glass of iced tequila while I eat bear jerky.

I agree with all of the above except for the last sentence. I'll probably be wiping my back side with the paper. Just telling it like it is...[smilie=s: