Gas forge burner ?

[webradbury]

Has anyone here made or used a gas burner for a forge? I'm thinking about building one but I'm curious about how much gas they consume. I'd like to heat long enough to color case harden but if it costs a fortune in gas, I'll pass.

[M-Tecs]

For color case hardening temperature control is critical. You want a heat treat furnace not a forge. Past that I have only used electric furnaces.

I have limited experience with CCH but I personally will not go above 1450. Most seem to work in the 1350 to 1450 range. Some drop to 1100 to 1200 before the quench and 375 draw is common.

http://www.marlin-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3732

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ExouQ2byY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_KiiMxJDLg

[webradbury]

Ok...I'll pass. Those darn things are expensive!

[JSnover]

For your own purposes, or for paying customers? Hit the 'gunsmithing' forum.

"John Enockson" takes a less scientific approach in this video but the results aren't very attractive, IMO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxnXT_dRiCI

[M-Tecs]

Color case and case hardening are somewhat different. On the "John Enockson" less scientific approach in the video the results aren't very attractive or effective. If the hammer head was a low enough carbon content to take a case it would be too thin to benefit a hammer head. The only thing he did was destroy a handle and scale a hammer head.

[Salmon-boy]

There's plenty of online information around the Internet about forge burners, but I'd recommend Michael Porter's book: http://www.amazon.com/Gas-Burners-Forges-Furnaces-Kilns/dp/1879535203/ref=sr_1_30?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1437954664&sr=1-30&keywords=michael+porter There are a couple of different sized burners. Gas consumption is directly related to the amount of BTUs you want to output.

Alternately, I would suggest a look at Stephen Chastain's book: http://www.amazon.com/Build-Fired-Tilting-Furnace-foundry/dp/0970220316/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1437955109&sr=1-8&keywords=stephen+chastain - There's a lot of good information there about the combustion process..

If you want control though, look around for a used electric pottery kiln.

[yovinny]

I have a propane gas forge master I use for forging stuff, like knives, tools, etc.
It's really made for horse shoes and you can try a search for centaur forge if you want to see what they look like.
That said,,, they are NOT suitable for doing case colors, besides being pretty expensive. I only own one because I fell into it well used and cheap when a friends dad passed.

I'd check out Brownells,,,I believe they have a write up all about doing case colors, besides the proper equipment and supplies....But case colors are not something thats very feasible doing at a hobby level.

Cheers, YV

[andremajic]

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/index.html

I used some of his designs to make my own waste oil furnace. Uses used motor oil. They will burn hot enough to melt brass/bronze, so yes it would get hot enough for case hardening. I used a large squirrel cage motor salvaged from a self cleaning oven to add the air to the burner. I used a large 5 gallon water cooler with a valve to hold the waste oil. I used some nylon hose that cost about .19 a foot to run from the water cooler to the burner.

Burner was made of a 5' long 1.5" water pipe, with a 1/4" reduced and bent copper tube in the center of it. Gravity pulls the waste oil thru tubing to a shutoff valve, down the copper tubing into the water pipe, and the air "atomizes" it and blows a spray of oil into the furnace. You can use the shutoff valve to "fine tune" the amount of oil to air ratio so it burns clean and won't smoke. I use charcoal briquettes to preheat it so the oil will catch and after it gets up to heat, it's self sustaining from the heat it generates once it gets up to temperature.

Waste oil will actually burn hotter than propane, even though everyone thinks of a blue flame being the hottest flame, this is not necessarily true when you are burning oil and oxygen mixed in with it. (ever see the iraq oil fields on fire? They burned real hot!)

Furnace was built with refractory cement, (recipe and ratios on his website); portland cement, vermiculite (brand I used was called "zonolite", fireclay, and sand.
You can use a 5 gallon container to hold the cement in as a form, with smaller containers inside to make the chamber so the cement will set in the proper shape. Read this guys website, he basically shows you step by step how to make one.

Total cost was about 50 bucks, and I have a bunch of supplies left over from what I bought. The cost to run it is basically just the electricity to run the squirrel cage motor. The waste oil is free. You can get the supplies from any outlet that sells building supplies for masonry and chimneys. If you are interested in banging on red hot metal or melting things, this is a useful tool to make.

Andy

[webradbury]

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/index.html

I used some of his designs to make my own waste oil furnace. Uses used motor oil. They will burn hot enough to melt brass/bronze, so yes it would get hot enough for case hardening. I used a large squirrel cage motor salvaged from a self cleaning oven to add the air to the burner. I used a large 5 gallon water cooler with a valve to hold the waste oil. I used some nylon hose that cost about .19 a foot to run from the water cooler to the burner.

Burner was made of a 5' long 1.5" water pipe, with a 1/4" reduced and bent copper tube in the center of it. Gravity pulls the waste oil thru tubing to a shutoff valve, down the copper tubing into the water pipe, and the air "atomizes" it and blows a spray of oil into the furnace. You can use the shutoff valve to "fine tune" the amount of oil to air ratio so it burns clean and won't smoke. I use charcoal briquettes to preheat it so the oil will catch and after it gets up to heat, it's self sustaining from the heat it generates once it gets up to temperature.

Waste oil will actually burn hotter than propane, even though everyone thinks of a blue flame being the hottest flame, this is not necessarily true when you are burning oil and oxygen mixed in with it. (ever see the iraq oil fields on fire? They burned real hot!)

Furnace was built with refractory cement, (recipe and ratios on his website); portland cement, vermiculite (brand I used was called "zonolite", fireclay, and sand.
You can use a 5 gallon container to hold the cement in as a form, with smaller containers inside to make the chamber so the cement will set in the proper shape. Read this guys website, he basically shows you step by step how to make one.

Total cost was about 50 bucks, and I have a bunch of supplies left over from what I bought. The cost to run it is basically just the electricity to run the squirrel cage motor. The waste oil is free. You can get the supplies from any outlet that sells building supplies for masonry and chimneys. If you are interested in banging on red hot metal or melting things, this is a useful tool to make.

Andy

thanks Andy and everyone. I'm probably going to make one eventually to cast some aluminum from scrap. It'll be a while though due to two rifle projects going at once right now. Will

[andremajic]

thanks Andy and everyone. I'm probably going to make one eventually to cast some aluminum from scrap. It'll be a while though due to two rifle projects going at once right now. Will

No problem, my pleasure.
Another thing you can use your leftover sand and fireclay for is greensand for you molds. It's 10 parts sand by weight and 1 part fireclay, misted with a water bottle and well mixed (mulled) until it's thoroughly mixed. It takes a VERY small amount of water, to get it right. It should make a shape if you crush it in your hand and break cleanly. Should be about the same consistency as a lump of brown sugar, and about the same dryness. Just look it up on youtube to see someone mix it to get the right idea.

If it's too wet, your mold will steam and break and you will get a poor casting. This takes some trial and error to get just right.

Andy

[ascast]

I guess it's beed- I have a forge-it's for horseshoes. I use it for batch processing lead or smelting, but more often I use wood.
I do not think is good enuogh for any much beyond horse shoe type work

[Any Cal.]

I have made an electric heat treat furnace, it is doable. If you just had one or two parts we could work something out to use mine, if they fit.

[webradbury]

I have made an electric heat treat furnace, it is doable. If you just had one or two parts we could work something out to use mine, if they fit.

I had the parts at one time but couldn't figure out how to wire it up. That's not one of my strong points. I still have a bunch of the K23 bricks but that's all.