45 acp seating die?

[anotherred]

I'm having and issue seating 45 acp cast bullets slightly crooked, shaving lead causing my fussy 45 to not always go into full battery. I'm using M die for flaring (which helped a bit), lee dies to size, seat and light crimp separate. What I'm wondering if a sliding collate die like hornady will fix the crooked bullet/ shaving lead issue? If it helps, I'm loading Lee 452-200-RF boolits.

[Motor]

Do you have more than one seating plug that you can use. Some die sets come with 2 or even 3. You need to find one that contacts the boolit's nose diameter not the end or tip.

Usually I would say you need more mouth flair but you say your using an M die. I haven't used a pistol M die does it simply create a larger straight id like the rifle one? If so is it large enough to let the boolit enter without shaving?

Motor

[Mk42gunner]

My .45ACP die set is mostly comprised of an set of CH dies that were initially used on one of their Mk 4 or 5 progressives. I do use a Lyman M die for expanding, the Speed Seater works very well with flat nosed boolits, since I mostly load the Lyman 452460 SWC, I haven't tried it with RN.

You might try turning the seating plug around in your Lee die, giving a flat surface to push against the RF meplat.

Robert

[anotherred]

Motor, the lee dies only come with one seating plug. The seating die does push fairly well on the ogive (nose), but there must be too much play in the seater plug (in the die) that the bullet can rock and still enter the case at an angle. When I put extra flair on the case it allowed the bullet to tip even more.

Robert, I'll have to give that a try, flat nose on a flat seater.

[Motor]

That's strange. Usually a M die will give you a nice straight alignment. Is your M die allowing you to start the boolit into the case mouth? If it is, using the flat side of the plug may help.

Sorry about the seat plug comment. I saw you are using a Lee mould but somehow missed you were using a Lee seat die. I use a couple Lee pistol sets. I haven't had any problems with them yet.

Motor

[grumman581]

I've heard of people using JB-Weld to create a custom nose profile for the seating plug.

[anotherred]

Motor, no need to apologize. I really am looking for any ideas on this. Grumann, I'll have to think about the jb weld idea. Haven't though of that.

[turtlezx]

that jb weld sounds like a good idea

[mdi]

Just a thought; if the bullet is placed in the case mouth crooked, 99% of the time it will be pushed in crooked. My experience is that the case will straighten the bullet some, but will still be crooked. My M die enlarges a section of the mouth, but doesn't give much flare. I think I'd try just a plain old flare, as much as necessary (don't worry about case life, just use as much flare as you need to get good shootable ammo now, brass is cheap and easy to find).

[sparky45]

JB Weld, while it will work, I've found that if you use Hot Glue, the newly formed "nose" is easily removed and you can then reform a different profile. Also, if you indeed are using a M die to expand the case neck, the M die isn't the correct size because if the M die was correct size the cast bullet (if it's sized right) will set straight in the case, i.e., if your cast is .452", your M die needs to be a tad larger to properly expand the case mouth.

[youngmman]

I use the Redding Competition seating die and have never had a problem with misalignment. It's not cheap but it works without any screwing around with it. The bullet nose shape doesn't matter and the taper crimp is a separate and last operation.

[bedbugbilly]

Maybe I missed it in reading . . . if you are using Lee dies for seating .. . usually the seating plug insert can be reversed - i.e. one end for flat nose and the other contoured. Have you taken the die apart to check the seating insert out to see which end you have down? I don't load 45 ACP but I do use Lee dies for 9mm & 38/357 and the seating die seems to work fine for seating and keeping them straight for all designs - WC, SWC, RN and FN. Should be the same though for the 45ACP. If your using a M die to expand/flair - the boolit should seat straight. If you can't get your Lee seating die to seat straight (if you are using Lee) - maybe you could borrow one from somebody - another Lee, RCBS, Lyman, etc. and see how that works?

[MT Chambers]

I've never had that problem and always use Redding or RCBS dies, usually it doesn't even matter if the bullet is lopsided in the case mouth, the die seats it straight. I would fill the entire die with JB weld, let it harden, then go and get a set of Redding dies.

[Char-Gar]

That bullet has a flat nose and needs a seating plug with a flat nose. I don't use Lee dies, but I am thinking it has a round nose seating plug.

I have both RBCS and Lyman dies and I have turned a seating stem flat with the lathe which can be used with ant bullet with a flat spot on the nose.

[Tac9]

I am having the same issue as the OP, with the exact same bullet and using lee dies as well. Did you ever find a solution to your lead shaving? I work at a steel factory with lots of mills and lathes so I'm just going to have a new seating plug turned for me with a flat face.

-Zach

[Nueces]

I use the Hornady sliding sleeve seating die and recommend it highly. I also use the Lyman M die design of case neck expander. For my 45 Colt cowboy loads, the case neck gets tighter and harder after several firings, so seating straight gets more difficult.

When it gets intolerable, I anneal the necks (Starline brass). But I can forestall the need for annealing by just breaking the inside edge of the neck - deburring it using an RCBS case station single edge rotating tool. Two turns around the neck gets me back to being able to snap the bullets into the seat made by the M die, insuring straight, shave free seating. Try gently deburring a few cases to see if that helps.

For me, the common, sharp multi-edge tools are too aggressive and work only on round necks. A single edge tool, like the too small Lee tool, are much more controllable. My tool is part of an older RCBS case station.

[captaint]

I can't believe the solution to this problem is no more complicated than the correct punch. One that matches the boolit...

[anotherred]

I think I found the main culprit to this problem. I was casting, and reloading the boolits with out resizing. Some of the boolits where more oval vs. round. This oval shape caused to boolits to tip in the brass vs sit straight and when the sit crooked, they continued seating crooked.

[grumman581]

I can't believe the solution to this problem is no more complicated than the correct punch. One that matches the boolit...

Well, there is *another* solution... At least if your firearm will handle it... Use an unsized round ball for your bullet. Since it's a sphere, it's not really possible for it to go in crooked... :)

[Motor]

I think I found the main culprit to this problem. I was casting, and reloading the boolits with out resizing. Some of the boolits where more oval vs. round. This oval shape caused to boolits to tip in the brass vs sit straight and when the sit crooked, they continued seating crooked.

I find I only need to size my revolver boolits. Maybe look into why you are getting oval shaped boolits as well.

Motor

[KnotRight]

Nueces, I agree with the Hornady. I have only 3 calibers in the Hornady dies but like how the sleeve centers the bullet before it is in gauged all the way into the seating die.

[Nueces]

And the Hornady sleeves are simple cylinders with two diameter holes through them, easy to make on a small lathe.

[Tac9]

So as it would seem the seating stem was NOT the problem in this case and did nothing to help. The cause of the shavings (for me at least) was that the seating die was closing the case mouth before the bullet was fully seated. Because this round is set at a deeper than normal OAL. The solution was to unscrew the die a bit and re adjust the plug for the correct OAL.

-Zach

[Motor]

So you were basically over crimping. Good to see you got it sorted out.

I load on a single stage press so I seat and crimp everything I can in one step. Once you get the set up procedure down it's pretty easy.

The very first thing to do is put one of your ready to load cases in your press and run the ram up to the top. Then screw the seat/crimp die down until you just feel it contact the case. Then back it off 1/2 turn. Leave the die set at this height.

Then back off the seat plug. Load one of your cases with your selected powder charge. Place a bullet or boolit in the mouth and raise the ram. Adjust the seat plug until you get your correct OAL.

Then back off the seat plug. Next adjust the die body down until you get the correct amount of crimp. (semiautomatic handgun remove the mouth flair + no more than .002" reduction in diameter at the mouth. I prefer .000 to .001")

After you have your crimp correct set your die body lock nut. Now use the same loaded and crimped round to set and lock your seating plug.

Some minor adjustment to the seating plug may be necessary but your crimp should be good. If you set up this way and use sufficient mouth flair you should never have problems seating and crimping in one step.

The process is the same for roll crimping too.

I've been doing this for 30 years. Trust me it works. If you are loading on a progressive press then sure seat and crimp in 2 steps. You have to pull the handle anyway. :)


Motor

[gwpercle]

Try seating the boolits in one step and then crimping in another , separate step.
Also make sure the boolit is as stright as possible in the case. If it is crooked, lead will be shaved and the crooked lead boolit is not going to straighten itself out well at all.
Remember...crooked in, crooked out. Bevel based boolits are a little easier to get started straight and flat based must be lined up to seat straight with no shaving.
Gary

[ncbearman]

Most .45acp doesn't need a crimp. basically use it just enough to take out the flare and chamber correctly. Excessive crimp will cause shaving along with improper sizing.

[blikseme300]

I like and use the Hornady seater dies but most of them are a little small for CB's. A bit of time in the lathe using a post grinder to open them up turns these into winners for me.

[noylj]

Stopped sizing my cast bullets around 1975 (?) and never had a problem.
If bullets are casting oval, may want to contact company that made the mold (or, at least, be sure molds clean and free of any burrs).
Even with your issue, I would rather get a seating stem that actually fits the bullets or use a Hornady seating die, but, if sizing is what you want to do, you are with most casters in that operation.