Miroku 94 38/55

[T-Bird]

Was at the LGS yesterday and saw in a Winchester catalog, that accidently opened in front of me, that Miroku is making the 94 win in 38/55. They even make 4 flavors. I don't know how this got by me. Anybody have one?

[T-Bird]

Did a search and answered my own question. Lots of you have them and seem to like them. I've never owned a 38/55 but have wanted one for a long time. Research seems to indicate 2 case lengths?. Which one fits the 94? also research indicates that 38/55 bores vary what do the Miroku 94's run? Same as their 1885 which seems to be .376? Also, seems the RCBS cowboy dies are the best dies to use? Any feedback is appreciated. I'm getting the itch. Shoot Straight, T-Bird

[MarkP]

Not sure on the Miroku 94's but you can find a Chief Crazy Horse (Win 94 - 38-55) for around $800 - $850 NIB. I use the shorter Starline brass in mine and also formed some 30-30 cases which end up short, have not really noticed a difference in accuracy. I size mine to 0.3805" mine all slug around 0.379". I wish the CCH had octagon barrels, IMO these are one of the nicest looking of the 94 commemoratives.

Cabalas has a special run of 38-55's.

[T-Bird]

thanks Mark

[Tatume]

What's the story behind the Chief Crazy Horse model 94?

[MarkP]

145318
1983 Commemorative mfg-19,999; color case hardened receiver with Indian tribes inscribed along perimeter of the receiver, brass tacks on right side of stock and tacks on both sides of forearm, 24" round bbl., 38-55 WCF.

[MarkP]

Often thought about re-boring a 26" Canadian Centennial to 38-55. These have an octagon bbl and a black receiver with maple leaves and no emblem in the stock. Just a few years ago these could be purchased for $500 NIB. Probably still under $650 ish if you look around. These are the least flashy / gaudy of the commemoratives.

[Guesser]

I don't know about RCBS dies; but my Lyman dies are flawless for my custom 38-55 I had built up on a Winchester 94 AE action about 2002. It shoots nothing but cast with a bore of .3765.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
"Just to have a caliber 38-55 can be very inexpensive !
Find a 1894 with a rusty, crummy bore. $100 - 200. Send it to JES Reboring. $240 dollars returned to your house and ready to shoot.
Have done several 94's and 336's and they all shoot the same...Great ! Most any caliber 38 mold will drop at .377 so you are all set to go.
You have options with JES of 3 or 4 or 5 groove rifling. I cannot tell any accuracy difference. 4 and 5 groove just cost more.
So if you already have a 30-30 94 that you do not shoot anymore it can be a caliber 38 and back at your house in 3 weeks generally.
Mike in Peru

[TXGunNut]

Snoop around on the Starline website for the story behind the two different lengths for 38-55 brass, been a long, crazy day or I'd post a link. Long story short, the 2.125 brass will probably work best.
Haven't seen a Miroku 38-55 yet, mine are a vintage 1901 built 94 and a Legendary Frontiersman built ca. 1989. Sweet cartridge.

[T-Bird]

my disease is progressing- I my further research led my to this JES rebore thing. This looks good money wise. On the other hand, those Mirokus sho are purdy!Thanks everybody and Shoot Straight, T-Bird

[T-Bird]

Think I may just do the JES rebore. I can get gun, and have it rebored, mold, all "accessories" for less than just the Miroku alone! TGN is the longer brass ok in the JES as well, or do you know? Shoot Straight, T-Bird

[lobogunleather]

Think I may just do the JES rebore. I can get gun, and have it rebored, mold, all "accessories" for less than just the Miroku alone! TGN is the longer brass ok in the JES as well, or do you know? Shoot Straight, T-Bird

If you are having a rifle rebored the chamber will have to be reamed, so I would expect that you could specify which case length you want to have.

[T-Bird]

I don't know, haven't talked to JES yet(still acquiring a "specimen"). T-Bird

[TXGunNut]

Think I may just do the JES rebore. I can get gun, and have it rebored, mold, all "accessories" for less than just the Miroku alone! TGN is the longer brass ok in the JES as well, or do you know? Shoot Straight, T-Bird

I don't have one of Jesse's 38-55 rebores but he did re-bore my 30-06 to 35 Whelen awhile back. Very impressed with his work and customer service. Please talk to him and discuss your plans and concerns. I honestly don't know which brass works best with his chambers but I can assure you he does. There are a few threads around here about this conversion, good info.

[Frank46]

Try Cherry's Fine guns. They usually have a few of the '94 commoratives in stock. That's where I got my Canadian commorative rifle with the 26" octagon bbl new in the box. I also have the 20" bbld carbine with octagon bbl I bought some years before I got it's big brother. Think it cost me about $600. Frank

[T-Bird]

got a nice '89 mod 94 (no weird safeties) sending to J E S today. I chose 3 groove for the barrel since people that have them seem to like them.Received Lee mold 379-250, .377 expander plug, .377 sizer die for my lubrisizer fri and I've got 100 2.082 (what JES said I should use) on the way-actually he said he uses Win. brass but from what I understand, it's the same length. I haven't tooled up for a new cal. in a long time, this will be fun. Will send a range report when the shootin' starts! Shoot Straight, T-Bird

[TXGunNut]

New cartridges are fun but can be expensive when dies, brass, moulds, GC's and sizers are involved, lol. Sounds like fun, looking forward to the range report!

[T-Bird]

I intend to use this gun at original BP velocity of about 1350 fps but with smokeless. Want to try softish boolits to hunt with and COWW +2% for paper. I was thinking something about 8-9 BHN(like 30-1) and a slower pwdr like 3031 for the soft boolits. Does this sound feasible? Shoot Straight, T-Bird

[rbertalotto]

I have the Model 94 Sporter....The most accurate lever gun I've ever owned. I recently won the off-hand side match at a regional Cowboy Action Shoot with it. Third time this rifle has won me a buckle! 175 yards, standing, timed. I hit the 18" plate 8 out of ten times in 52 seconds.

38-55...250g LEE bullet over 9g of Unique with a small toilet paper wad to hold powder against primer gets the job done! Recoil like a 22 Magnum!

I had Jes at 35caliber.com rebore and rifle three rofles for me to 38-55 and all of them are real shooters. Highly recommend it.

I found a beautiful 1978 (forged parts) Winchester 94 in 30-30 with great wood and perfect condition for $200. Sent it to Jes with a check for $225 for a rebore to 38-55....Had it back in nine days and it shoots beautifully! For $525 I don't know how you could buy a nicer rifle in that caliber.

[T-Bird]

That's good to hear, thanks rbertalotto

[JHeath]

I found a beautiful 1978 (forged parts) Winchester 94 in 30-30 with great wood and perfect condition for $200. Sent it to Jes with a check for $225 for a rebore to 38-55....Had it back in nine days and it shoots beautifully! For $525 I don't know how you could buy a nicer rifle in that caliber.

I am unlearned about forged-parts '79 Winchesters. Can you conveniently point me to a reference or give a quick explanation? I googled and saw a reference to '82 and later being forged receivers. Not contesting, just trying to get up to speed . . .

[Buckshot]

..............The 30-30 Is fine, and using an old 1893 Marlin action and a NOS 20" 36-CS bbl I built myself a rendition of a Marlin "Lite-Weight':

http://www.fototime.com/72A8FA97FC3CDA9/standard.jpg

It's a fine little rifle .....................

http://www.fototime.com/47DD87E404FADAE/standard.jpg

But to me, there's just something extra special about the 38-55 cartridge!

http://www.fototime.com/881261E4534FC9E/standard.jpg

Looks just like a bunch of baby 45-90's to me!

....................Buckshot

[rbertalotto]

Don't take this as gospel as I've not done enough research. We all know post 64 Winchester model 94 rifles were looked upon as inferior to pre-64 versions. Mostly because of stamped parts and the alloy receivers. I have a post 64 made in 1966. When I bought the rifle to convert to 38-55, I realized the internal parts were different from the 1966. The internet offered that Winchester went back to machined / forged parts for the internals after 1978. My rifle's serial number shows it to be late 1978.

Not sure where any of this info lays, but I can tell you there is a world of difference between my 1966 rifle and this 1978 rifle. The receiver of both appear to be the same, alloy plated with steel and then blued and slight pitting where someone carried by the receiver with bare hands.

The 1978 is much smoother operating and the fit and finish is 1000 times better than the older rifle.

[458mag]

I think the 375 win brass is slightly longer than the 38-55 brass and the later can be used in the 375. Not sure if it is the other way around.

[rking22]

375 Win brass is shortest at 2.020,
then the "modern" 38-55 at 2.085,
then longest the original 38-55 at 2.125

Some 375 big bores (maybe most?) have a very long chamber allowing them to accept the 2.085 and mine will almost accept the 2.125 38-55. My chamber will accept a .400 dia plug gage to 2.110 depth! That does NOT mean that anyone should shoot 38-55 loads in 375 Win firearms. But I think Win "protected" the BB 375s for that possiability. Marlin may have also ????

[rbertalotto]

Isn't it strange that you can fit the much more powerful 375 in the weaker black powder rifles chamber?

[TXGunNut]

I intend to use this gun at original BP velocity of about 1350 fps but with smokeless. Want to try softish boolits to hunt with and COWW +2% for paper. I was thinking something about 8-9 BHN(like 30-1) and a slower pwdr like 3031 for the soft boolits. Does this sound feasible? Shoot Straight, T-Bird

Sounds like an excellent plan. I use 50/50 alloy sweetened up a bit with tin over 3031. Haven't quite gotten it worked out but I think once some mechanical issues are resolved this will be an excellent load.

[TXGunNut]

But to me, there's just something extra special about the 38-55 cartridge!

http://www.fototime.com/881261E4534FC9E/standard.jpg

-Buckshot


Couldn't agree more. Good to see you, Buckshot!

[rking22]

Isn't it strange that you can fit the much more powerful 375 in the weaker black powder rifles chamber?

Agreed, probably gave their counsel a heart attack. Or they assumed either those (few) with 38-55s knew better OR whould not think of it. Bad plan either way in today's world! Seriously doubt the freebore and slightly undersized bullet would permit regular use in the vintage 38-55s with out damage.

The post 64 94s used an investment cast 4100 series chrome-molly steel, trusting my memory(and sometimes I don't). The alloy content of the steel is what caused the reblues to be purple. Once everyone figured out what the proper bluing salts to use we saw fewer purple 94s (thankfully). I saw one today in a little gunshop near home, still wanted 350$ for it! The stamped parts in the early post 64s got replaced in late 70s with better quality components, suspect these were also investment castings. No problem there, Ruger has always used investment castings and they have some of the toughest guns out there, TC also.

TxGunNut,,, thats is some awful purtty loads!

[cabezaverde]

When sending a rifle to Jessie for a rebore, do you send the whole rifle or just the barreled action?

[T-Bird]

I took my gun to the LGS (sans scope) paid them to ship it. When I talked to JES that's what they told me to do. I asked if I should remove the stock, they said no. Shoot Straight, T-Bird

[TXGunNut]

TxGunNut,,, thats is some awful purtty loads! -rking22

Agreed, but those are Buckshot's loads. My loads generally come out purty too but I'm not near as good with a camera as he is.

[TXGunNut]

When sending a rifle to Jessie for a rebore, do you send the whole rifle or just the barreled action?

Best bet is whole rifle, he will test fire it after re-boring.

[T-Bird]

This thread wound up being a JES thread rather than Miroku- that's OK. Shoot Straight, T-Bird

[T-Bird]

Still waiting on my prodigal gun (get it). In the interim, I have loaded 18.5gr, 20gr, 21gr, 22gr, 24gr of IMR 4198 under the Lee 359-250 with a pinch of dacron.I also loaded 18gr 5744 also with a pinch of Dacron. I loaded 4 rounds of each. The good ones will get reloaded. Any more suggestions for loads in the 1350-1400fps range? Shoot straight, T-Bird

[TXGunNut]

This thread wound up being a JES thread rather than Miroku- that's OK. Shoot Straight, T-Bird

Classic thread drift, sorry for my part in it. The Miroku is a worthy subject but quite honestly they leave me cold. Awesome fit & finish but....I'll leave it at that. The JES option is indeed a good one to consider even if
that wasn't where you were headed.

[T-Bird]

I'll start a more appropriately titled thread when the shootin' starts. Shoot straight, T-Bird

[northmn]

Went through this discussion on the Marlin forum as I have a 38-55 Marlin Cowboy. I have used both Starline brass and Winchester brass in mine and both work. Some like to get the longer Starline and trim it to fit the chamber at about 2.11 instead of the 2.085. For general purpose use the shorter brass works. I use the Lee mold and it drops the 50/50 WW/lead at about 259 grains. When I want to drive it a bit faster than the alloy permits, I use a cork wad I punched out of gasket material and shotgun buffer to make a compressed load. This works very similar to a gas check but make sure the load is compressed or you might get barrel damage.
I chronographed 4198 and was very surprised at the velocities. I tried 23 or 24 grains and got over 1600 fps. Settled on 22 grains and may cut back yet. Most prefer not to compete with the 375 and keep the 38-55 loaded down a bit. 14-1500 fps. A favorite load for many is about 9-10 grains of Unique. Jacketed bullets are hard to get and very spendy.

DP

[T-Bird]

I've tried to estimate velocities that I will get from the 4198 loads that I assembled, but it's hard because everyone seems to get such different results. I understand bbl length etc. variables, but the newest Lyman cast boolit book (I think) lists the 249gr pb at 1400ish fps from a 30 in bbl. My gun is 20 in. I may have loaded a bunch of loads hotter than I want.

[northmn]

I was very surprised when I chronographed my 4198 load as the Lyman book had 25 grains of 4198 at 1590. I got about 1650 with 23 grains using a WW primer. Loading manuals will sometimes give velocities in an individual rifle somewhat close to what they claim. I have an old Speer manual that lists some of the velocities they had gotten in test rifles with factory loads. Very enlightening. Most seem to like 4198 loaded in the 21-22 grains range. One individual claimed 21 grains would given him under 1" groups while 22 would open up to 2". He also preferred about a .001 OS boolit. I can live with 2" groups in a lever action with peep sights.
JES rebores are generally 377 diameter according to what some write. My Marlin is a 379 and many older Winchesters are 379. There is a variation in older rifles. The Lee mold is popular for the caliber, and the Lyman gas check mold is used by those that like a little more oomph. A 38-55 bullet cast soft and going between 14-1500 fps should be fairly effective at least for deer. The 38-55 has better velocity retention downrange than some of the larger bores using the same bullet weight. It was historically used a Scheutzen cartridge at 200 yards so it does tend to be accurate.

DP

[Prodigal Son]

I leave in 3 weeks to Newfoundland with my JES rebore 38-55 in tow! I'm shooting 250 gr PB over 30 grs. of IMR 3031! I went with the 5 groove like the Winchester original design. Just did a boolit test 50 yards into the end of a piece of black cherry firewood, boolit retained about 80% so I should be good for black bear! I also just sent him a Howa 1500 243 win he will bore to 358 win. You can't find a nicer or more competent fellow anywhere!

[Buckshot]

.............I really, REALLY like the Lee 250gr .375 slug, and anyone probably would so long as it fits their barrel. My mould happens to drop them @ .380". They're seated for my Uberti Hi-Wall, and as you can see they engrave. For my Marlin levergun they get seated to the crimp groove.

http://www.fototime.com/2EEBEF6922E233B/standard.jpg

The Uberti shoots well now (new factory barrel and 9 months time going to 2 different places for repair) , and suffice to say I wouldn't buy a Uberti anything unless I could see it shoot first. However this slug seated into the crimp groove over any legitimate 38-55 book load shoots like a house afire from my Marlin. With 12 grs of Unique the way things are these days, why would anyone need 22RF?

.................Buckshot

[Prodigal Son]

147470This is my bear medicine! Lyman 249 gr. PB, 30 grs. of IMR 3031 @ 1550 fps! Shoots really nices groups too!

[T-Bird]

Looks good PS. What alloy? Shoot Straight, T-Bird

[Prodigal Son]

Lyman #2

[superbee]

Can a 30-30 be rechambered / rebored to 32-40?

[rking22]

Not without a replacement barrel, or siginifigant setback. The shoulder on the 3030 is larger in dia than that area on the 3240 case.

[T-Bird]

Got it back today. Shot several 4 shot loads , all shot very well at 50 yds. Powders were 4198 5744 4227. Will post report tomorrow in a new thread. I was just so happy with the results I had to finish this thread with a very *** report. Shoot Straight, T-Bird

[T-Bird]

To resurrect this thread and return to the original topic, I ordered a Miroku mod 94 sporter yesterday! My JES rebore was VERY lonesome being my only 38-55. Guess I'm too softhearted to see a "kid" in pain. Shoot Straight, T-Bird

[TXGunNut]

Congrats! I'm proud owner of a Winchester commemorative 94 and a 1901 vintage 94. They get along just fine and even like the same boolits and loads.

[T-Bird]

Don't you just love it when that happens!?

[TXGunNut]

Don't you just love it when that happens!?

Thought it was pretty odd at first but I'm trying to get used to it. ;-)

[rondog]

Wow, I have to admit I had no idea what 38-55 rounds looked like, I thought it was a pistol caliber y'all were talking about. Those are impressive! I bet those are a good time to shoot!

[T-Bird]

Seems to be a great combo of boolit dia and wt for hunting. The cal. also seems to be inherently accurate.(I also read that). I like a big hole in and out for deer w/o going all the way to 45/70. Recoil esp at black pwdr velocities is quite manageable.My JES rebore doesn't have the large and variably bore size which plagued many. So far I am loving the cal! Shoot Straight T-Bird