We speak of high pressure rounds

[leeggen]

I am not talking about high pressure rounds that blow up hand guns. I am asking for knowledge of what is the pressure where we begin to consider a hand gun as to using high pressure rounds? I am sure others would like to ask the same question.

CD

[runfiverun]

I switch from handgun to rifle primers at @ the 40-k mark.
I'd bet the manufacturers use something similar.

[Mk42gunner]

To me, anything over ~25,000PSI is a high pressure round.

Or to put it another way 9mm/ 40 S&W/ revolver Magnums are high pressure, or at least have the potential to be.

Robert

[M-Tecs]

It varies with the gun. In a Colt 1873 shooting a 45 Colt cartridge 14,000 psi is high pressure. In an X frame S&W 460 high pressure is 65,000 psi.

[NavyVet1959]

167K psi (according to Quickload)... 10mm... Ooops...

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/ria-10mm-ruptured-brass.jpg

[TheDoctor]

Just... wow! Use that to proof the 16"/50 cal barrels?

[Larry Gibson]

I am not talking about high pressure rounds that blow up hand guns. I am asking for knowledge of what is the pressure where we begin to consider a hand gun as to using high pressure rounds? I am sure others would like to ask the same question.

CD

Are you actually meaning the pressure in "handgun cartridges?

I ask because there are many handguns that use rifle cartridges with higher psi's that those with cartridges originally intended for handguns, principally revolvers. If you are asking about revolvers the "high pressure" delineation used to be those that were acceptable for use with +P loads and those not. +P loads generally run in the 20 - 22,000 psi range.

Larry Gibson

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Great point Larry.

I was thinking, when I read a good reloading manual, the kind that lists pressures, then for each cartridge and boolit/bullet...the pressure listed under the MAX load column, would be on the HIGH side of high pressure
:) lol

[Outpost75]

For non-magnum handgun rounds, such as .38 Special, the standard pressure is about 16,000 psi.

+P loads are loaded about 15% higher than standard pressure, about 18,000 psi.

Law enforcement +P+ such as the Olin Q4070, was about 15% over industry +P, about 20-22,500 psi, close to .38 Special PROOF.

+P+ ammunition was intended for use only in revolvers designed for .357 Magnum ammunition. While approximating proof pressure for .38 Special, it is within safe design limits for .357 revolvers.

Anytime you exceed the factory standard pressure by 20% you are approaching proof and absolutely in "high pressure" territory.

In non-magnum handgun cartridges such as the .38 Special or .45 ACP you are on shaky ground above 22,500 psi if you want the gun to last.

[rking22]

20,000 PSI is my breakpoint, but;
Not real sure of the actual question. If asking about what "I" consider high pressure handgun rounds, "I" agree with MK42gunner. It's easy for me, high pressure rounds have notably higher muzzle pressure and are LOUD :) If asking about guns that can live with +P+ ideas then that's different. I would say that K frames in 357 then yes to +P+ 38special and standard 357 . If in 38 special , I personally keep to the standard 38 speecial rating. Ruger sp101 and service six 38s MAY can go higher toward 357 range, but why go there. Smith 696 is a 44 special and I keep it there due to the forcing cone whereas a Smith 69 is the same frame but redesigned to eliminate the areas liminting the 696. M69 is factory proofed to 44Mag, 696 proofed as a Special. 327 Fed is definately a high pressure round, 32HR soso,but not really and 32SW long definately not. 32SWL is much more fun to shoot than the 327 in the same gun, FOR ME, YMMV.
Now Contenders, ect are a whole nuther ball o wax.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Excellent thread. The 9 mm is a high pressure cartridge, we do not think of it as such but it operates at 35,000 psi. We don't see too many 9 mm's blown. We would all acknowledge the 41 Magnum as a high pressure cartridge just as the .357 and .44 Mag. So SAMMI sets some cartridges as high pressure, the .357 Sig is 40,000 psi industry maximum average. The 40 is 35,000. Compare that to 14,000 psi SAMMI spec. for the .45 Colt, set factoring it was designed or 1873 guns but we safely load 23,000 psi in modern guns manufactured by Ruger.

One factor in considering if the cartridge is high pressure is if the cartridge delivers factory equivalent velocities only with slow burning powders. If maximum published loads of slow burning powders leaves evidence of incomplete ignition then this would be an indication that the cartridge below high pressure peaks.

I'd love to spend more time on this but I have to go to work right now, I'll be back.

[jrap]

When i think high pressure in a handgun i think of the 10mm, 460 rowland or 460 smith and wesson

[NavyVet1959]

when i think high pressure in a handgun i think of the 10mm, 460 rowland or 460 smith and wesson

.22 tcm, 9x23

[leeggen]

I was asking about the hand guns themselves. We know that the 32 S&W is a low preasure pistol but the 40 S&W is a high preasure pistol. but I was asking where do we consider the hand gun falling into the highpreasure catagory. As R5R states 40K seems to be where we move to high preasure and begin to see changes in primers and maybe even heavier cases. Some would consider the 357 as being in that catagory but others would not. I guess I was asking at what preasure do we consider the guns, not talking about the over preasure rounds that blow cartridges and hand guns.
Thanks to those that responded.
CD

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I think it's silly to call certain rounds such as the .500 Smith and Wesson a high pressure round when it is an obvious label. Calling a round such as the 9mm a high pressure round is a comment worth making because we don't associate the 9mm and high pressure, but it operates at 35,000 psi, the same as the .357. We don't see 9mm blown up so we don't associate the 9mm with high pressure but it operates at only 1,000 psi below the .41 Magnum.

Along comes the 40 S&W, often shot along side the 9mm and 45 ACP and it becomes noteworthy that 40 S&W is operating at 14,000 psi over the 45 ACP. Especially if the guy with the 40 S&W is handloading his ammo where the cartridge is fired in a pistol with a recoil spring that functions at the top end of the pressure limit. A guy could have a 40 S&W cylinder built for his 10mm Ruger single action and have a lot more margin of safety handloading a 40 S&W. I understand Ruger did a limited run of the .40 S&W in the single action but those would be rare. Side note: A friend of mine had a Kahr .40 blow up on him with factory ammo, he reasoned it was result of the market demanding more power out of smaller guns.

SAAMI sets the standard for maximum operating pressures. Then us handloaders use those limits as suggested guidelines. Personally I deal in pressure limits because I shoot the Colt Single Action Army in .45 Colt and .44 Special a lot and I reload high volumes. Although SAAMI sets the .45 Colt limit at 14,000 PSI, .45 Colt loads at 50,000 psi are safe in a Ruger Redhawk. Even within the Colt SAA's production life which spans over 140 years, a handloader's margin of safe pressure limits vary. There are three (3) different maximum safe pressures of the Colt's SAA, one for guns made before the turn of the 20th Century which is limited to black powder, then another after the turn of the 20th century which is 14,000 psi. Then Colt SAA's made after WWII which can safely handle 19,000 psi. These guns are expensive and we do see them blown up so we have to pay attention. Along comes the single action Ruger that can be safely loaded at limits which exceed the Colt. For the Ruger, an old model Vaquero can safely take pressures which exceed the limit for Colt SAA but exceed the limit of the Ruger New Vaquero. Ruger guys can chime in here and post several paragraphs of information worth heeding.

If we reason our need for loads which are maximum for a gun, I hope you agree that we don't really need to shoot maximum loads at high volumes. I carefully load my five (5) field loads which are right at red line one at a time, but don't fire them as often. They are hard on my hand and hard on the gun. When loading high volumes of ammo on a progressive, I'm loading rounds which are safely in the middle of the pressure zone for that round. K frame .357 Smith and Wesson guys might agree here they don't fire a steady diet of maximum rounds in these guns.

If I'm shooting high volumes of high pressure ammo as in IHMSA, I use a gun that can handle high pressures, like a Ruger Redhawk. Then my hand and wrist doesn't get beat up. I don't like fire a steady diet of red line pressure ammo in high volumes in any firearm.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Gunsamerica has a Blackhawk with a .38/40 and 10mm cylinder for sale right now. $895.00.