cimarron low wall 32-20 problem

[Rimfire]

144970144972Picked up a low wall 32-20 at an estate sale for a decent price,it is nicely finished on the outside, but the chamber is terrible. Fired cases come out with almost no neck,accuracy is terrible. Anyone else have one with this problem ? If I can't find a decent load it looks like a reline will be necessary.
Pics. show loaded round-middle case was fired in a Rem. model 25-end case fired in cimarron low wall (notice the 2 lines on the case where the shoulder was)

[M71]

Post up some photos of the fired brass and the chamber. Visual details will generate some reply's.

[scb]

If it were me and I wanted to shoot that rifle I wouldn't waste any time trying to get it to shoot like it is. I doubt I would ever get satisfactory groups and would bet case life would be very very short working the brass as much as will be required. I wouldn't mess around, I'd have it re-lined by someone that knows what they are doing. My 2¢.

[VA Jim]

I'd probably have it set back and re-chambered. Shame it got out of the factory that way.

[enfield]

if the bore is good you could rechamber it to something else like 32-30 Rem. or 8x48 sauer you would have the only one !

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Maybe it's not a .32-20? Looks like after firing the case is a straight wall. I'd check the bore diameter.

[.22-10-45]

Have you slugged the bore? I would trim case to remove that short neck on fired case & try some loads before I went to a reline.

[Rimfire]

Bore measures out to .310 I am sizing bullet to .311. Will try loading a few rounds with the bullet seated out as far as possible, and see how that works.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Well then, if the bore is as it should be, I never heard of a .32-20 Straight! But there's no reason it shouldn't shoot accurately if you reload the fired brass as-is. How to do that? Hmmmmm........you may or may not need a custom die. A regular .32-20 die could be customized by reaming the neck portion out to straight wall configuration. But, drawing on past experience, you might not need a die at all. I once owned a Martini-Henry .310 Cadet that had been converted to .32-20 WCF. The accuracy with factory ammo was abysmally awful--never hit the target at all and the bullets seemed to disappear into the wild blue. I set it aside for a few years but kept it as it wasn't eating anything, and then one day happened to read a paragraph long article/letter in the American Rifleman sent in by a reader who had the same problem and had found the cure by loading the fired brass with 97 gr. .32 Cal. wadcutters. He said that all you had to do was re-prime and charge the case and insert the base of the wadcutter into the mouth of the case, turn it upside down against a table top and press the bullet home by pushing down on the case. No press or dies needed. It worked! The rifle instantly became a tack driver. In fact, it was so accurate that it became boring and I sold it as a problem solved. One of the many mistakes of my life. But, the moral to the story is that something similar might work for you. The .32-20 is so relatively low pressure that you might get away for several reloads without having a sizing die at all. Worth looking into. Cheaper than a barrel job.

[bruce drake]

Take it to a gunsmith to drop it back a thread and rechamber and throat it properly as it was mentioned earlier in this thread.

[montana_charlie]

You should do a chamber cast on that rifle to find out what you actually have to work with.

The case on the right seems to show a restriction way up by the mouth. Where does THAT come from?

[Rimfire]

The "restriction" is the tiny neck that is left after firing.

[pietro]

.

IMO, somebody tried their hand at throating, reaming the chamber longer @ the bore, most likely to shoot longer boolits. . [smilie=b:



For almost nil cost, I would fireform the .32-20 cases I had, load up some long boolits, and shoot the new wilcat. . :cbpour:


.

[Rustyleee]

Well then, if the bore is as it should be, I never heard of a .32-20 Straight! But there's no reason it shouldn't shoot accurately if you reload the fired brass as-is. How to do that? Hmmmmm........you may or may not need a custom die. A regular .32-20 die could be customized by reaming the neck portion out to straight wall configuration. But, drawing on past experience, you might not need a die at all. I once owned a Martini-Henry .310 Cadet that had been converted to .32-20 WCF. The accuracy with factory ammo was abysmally awful--never hit the target at all and the bullets seemed to disappear into the wild blue. I set it aside for a few years but kept it as it wasn't eating anything, and then one day happened to read a paragraph long article/letter in the American Rifleman sent in by a reader who had the same problem and had found the cure by loading the fired brass with 97 gr. .32 Cal. wadcutters. He said that all you had to do was re-prime and charge the case and insert the base of the wadcutter into the mouth of the case, turn it upside down against a table top and press the bullet home by pushing down on the case. No press or dies needed. It worked! The rifle instantly became a tack driver. In fact, it was so accurate that it became boring and I sold it as a problem solved. One of the many mistakes of my life. But, the moral to the story is that something similar might work for you. The .32-20 is so relatively low pressure that you might get away for several reloads without having a sizing die at all. Worth looking into. Cheaper than a barrel job.


That's what I'd do before I put a lot of money into it. I shot a T/C contender by lightly neck sizing only, just enough to keep the bullets from falling into the case. At 50 yards it would shoot 3 hole a cloverleaf.

[Rimfire]

How long of a bullet would a 1 in 20" twist handle ? I loaded a few with the cases sized just enough to hold the bullet seated long,will give them a try in a few days.

[Rimfire]

Well seating the bullets long doesn't work, tried 3 different loads this weekend and best group was about 12" at 50yds. I'm thinking it is a lost cause.

[Kraschenbirn]

If you bought the gun new, you should get in touch with Cimarron Customer Service, otherwise, I believe I'd be looking at having that barrel set back and rechambered. Fired brass from my Cimarron 32-20 Low Wall looks just like the sample you've got from the Rem. M25 and accuracy is better than I can hold. I'm shooting the Lyman 311008 (117 gr. from my alloy) sized to .313 over 9.2 gr. AA5744 which produces consistent 100 yd (iron sight) groups right around 2"

Bill

[Rimfire]

I contacted Cimarron to see if there was anything they could do,they took the SN# but I haven't heard back from them. Since the rifle was out of an estate sale I'm not expecting much even though it was supposedly unfired when I got it. I may look into having it re-bored to 38 special.

[olafhardt]

The words "Ackley Improved" keep coming to mind.

[Rimfire]

What would the "Ackley Improved" look like ? Wouldn't I need a longer neck, as it is now the neck is to short to hold the bullet properly.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I don't know why what you've got is the way it is, but other than the fact that the chamber is unusual the basic facts of cartridge/bullet remain. If it were mine I would start off by expanding that little bit of restriction remaining at the mouth of a fire formed cartridge, seating a normal bullet, perhaps a 115 gr. flat nose into the fire formed case with my fingers--just starting it in, allowing the bullet to enter freely. I'd insert it in the chamber and close the action carefully and allow the start of the rifling or restriction of the throat as the situation exists, to push the bullet into the case. Remove the case and crimp the bullet at that point. If the rifle won't fire accurately after customizing the ammunition as described, then another problem exists that is being overlooked. Some target rifle shooters have been known to place the bullet in the chamber and then carefully insert a powdered case into the chamber and up against the bullet. The case has a filler to retain the powder, and it's usually black powder. I'm not suggesting that you do that, but if the bore is the proper size and the rifling is intact, no dings in the crown, the gun should shoot.

[Rimfire]

I can seat the bullet barely in the case and it will drop right in the chamber and not even touch the rifling. Throat is way to long. I also have to size the case a little or an unsized bullet will drop right in the case. Since starting this post I have heard of a couple other 1885 32-20 Uberti's with the same problem one a cimarron and the other from taylor's. E-mailed Cimarron and Uberti and have got no response.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Well... looks like there's no "cheap fix", and like others have advised rebarreling and/or rechambering will be necessary to solve your problem. Your idea about a .38 Special is interesting, but since a Hi-Wall is pretty strong a .357 Mag. chambering might be more versatile.

[ndnchf]

Sending it to JES for a rebore to .38 Special or .38 S&W would probably be the easiest and fastest solution.

[.45Cole]

.For almost nil cost, I would fireform the .32-20 cases I had, load up some long boolits, and shoot the new wilcat. ..

So a "32/20 Estate Sale Special"? I prefer "32/20 Estate Mag."

If you turn and rechamber you can pick your chamber dims, something I would be very envious of as you can chamber it to your die (take in a reload).

[leadman]

There are a couple of different cartridges based on the 38 special, 357 mag, and 357 maximum necked down that could solve your problem.
The 38 special case necked down to 30 cal is the 30 Reese, can't recall the 357 mag necked down name. 357 max necked down is a 300 Whisper rimmed.
I would try the 32 hollow base wadcutter and see what happens.

[Rimfire]

I'll give some 32 WC's a try. I wouldn't mind having it re-chamberd to 32-30 rem.

[Rimfire]

May have found a solution. Looking through Ctgs.of the world I noticed 7.62 Nagant revolver brass can be formed from 32-20 brass but it will be short.So I got a few fired Nagant brass from a neighbor and ran them through the 32-20 sizer,they dropped right in the chamber,then I seated a 3118 lyman bullet and it still dropped right in no trimming necessary. (will have to get a neck reamer as the bullets are tight) I sized and loaded 20 more and took them to the range today,they all stayed in the 9-10 ring. The Nagant cases are 1.5 inches long as opposed to 1.3 for the 32-20. They look more like a skinney 32-30 rem. than a 32-20.
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