50-70 Government

[StrawHat]

One of my favorite cartridges has to be the 50-70.

Been around since 1866, the cartridge not me, and still outclasses most of the newer ones.

My method of loading in not real scientific but it produces good results.

Using an empty cartridge as a scoop, I scoop up a full case of black powder, FFg.

Pour that measure of powder down a 30" tube into a primed case.

Next in is a grease cookie made of a cardboard wad (cereal box or similar), a grease disk and another cardboard wad.

Now the bullet, I cast Lyman 515141 and the Lee 515450, lubed with the same lube as in the grease oreo.

I am currently using a trapdoor rifle so I don't need to crimp but don't see why you couldn't use a light crimp.

Any one else load the 50-70?

And here is my trapdoor.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/Conversions001.jpg

Let's see more of them.

[NickSS]

Looks like yours is a converted Missassippi rifle model 1841. Did you do the work yourself or have a gunsmith do it with a 1868 or 1870 action?

I load 50-70s for two different rifles. One is an original 1866 springfield and the other is a C. Sharps Model 1874 hunters Carbine. The loads are different in only one respect. I have to use a .516" sizer for the Springfield and use a .512" sizer for the Sharps. My old springfield with a 70 gr. FFG charge will print a 3 to 4 inch group at 100 yards dead on point of aim. My Sharps will do better more in the 1.5 to 2 inch range at the same distance.

[rockrat]

I load the 50-70 for use in my Ruger #1. Still working on loads, but so far the best load is a 633 gr slug (NEI) at around 1400fps. Hard on the shoulder somewhat, but have a mountain moulds slug that I haven't tried yet. Run this thing up to full throttle and it will get your attention. 450gr slugs over 2000fps.

[StrawHat]

Looks like yours is a converted Missassippi rifle model 1841.

"...DING DING DING Give the man a seegar...."

Good eye.

Exactly, I had the barreled action for years hoping to acquire enough original parts. Eventually realized that on my salary, it wasn't going to happen. So, one day I am at a gunshop and see the patchbox peeking out through a bunch of stocks in the corner. When I ask about it the shopkeeper says something about how I might not be too interested once I see the barrel.

Big old area of rust on the outside by the muzzle. Previous owner shot his deer and laid the rifle on it for the obligatory "grinning hunter" pictures. Blood never got wiped off until it was too late.

Got it for a song.

Once I got it home, out with the new and in with the old.

Inlet the horseshoe spring and the ejector spring. The barrel was smaller than the italian one so I glass bedded it in place and soldered half round shims in the barrel bands.

Used some hex stock to "temporarily" lengthen the hammer to hit the firing pin.

A set of sights and the hard part was done.

Next winter it gets refinished to something a bit more pleasing to the eye than italian varnish and bright brass.

The action is stamped 1866 on the breech block, by the knuckle and Al Frasca figures it passed through the Bannerman Arsenal at some time.

I am also having a rolling block rebarreled and chambered for the 50-70.


rockrat I load the 50-70 for use in my Ruger #1.

rockrat, Was that a rebore or a rebarrel job on the #1?

No, wait, don't tell me, I don't need another "dream rifle".

How about a photo though?

[xtimberman]

I've had several .50-70s over the years - a trapdoor, a RB, and a Shiloh Sharps replica. I attempted smokeless loads on all three using IMR-3031 and IMR-4198 before giving that up and finally adopting a more accurate BP duplex load for each. The .50-70 is one of the most inherently accurate calibers I've ever fooled with - not just my rifles, but every .50-70 with a fine bore that I've had the pleasure of shooting. IMO, it is an ignored (and superior) little brother to the .50-90 and .50-140 heavy ordnance. :-?

The only mould I've used is Lyman #515141, and it has shot well in any .50-70 I've tried it in. The two old rifles required a .512" bullet dia. and the Shiloh required a .509" dia. Lube was my own paraffin/beeswax mix softened with ARCO graphite motor oil.

My best load for all three was a duplex load: 61gr. Goex FG on top of a .32acp case of SR-4759. The Shiloh had a perfect bore and could be fired all day with only a couple of bore cleanings when shooting this load. I used a single .50 cal. card cut from Dr Pepper cartons - shiny side down - between the powder and the bullet.

A shooting club I belonged to at the time had an 18" gong set up at 300M for the Garand shooters. I knew the exact tang sight setting for that gong and would sometimes go over there while they were ringing it with their M1s. I had let some of them shoot my Shiloh enough to where they were just as proficient as I was. Sometimes a couple of the fellows would scam the newcomers into betting a round of beers afterwards against one of them shooting the .50-70 and hitting the gong.

I've shot a couple of hogs and some small whitetails with the .50-70 and it was somewhat overkill - at least for the deer.

.50-70 Govt. - the first US military round that civilians fell in love with for sporting use. A great cartridge! :drinks:

xtm

[dubber123]

My 50-70 is a 6-1/2" barreled T/C Contender, ordered with a 1-26" twist from Bullberry. It is my most accurate iron sighted handgun, and gets alot of looks at the range. It took a bunch of load development to make it work in the short barrel, but it was worth it.

The Lee 450 shoots extremely well, and I have a 390 grain full wadcutter that does nearly as well. I am toying with building a SXS shotgun into a double rifle, and it will be a 50-70, or 50-90.

[Halfbreed]

I am interested in a short barrel carbine trapdoor in the 50-70, I just don't know what to look for really.
John

[rockrat]

StrawHat---Will try and get you some pics tomorrow. It is a SSK rebarrel job.

[StrawHat]

I am interested in a short barrel carbine trapdoor in the 50-70, I just don't know what to look for really.
John

John,

These are the two sites I always recommend to people interested in Trapdoors.

http://www.trapdoors.com/

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/

Quite a bit of info on both sites.

Since no one is making a replica in 50-70, you need to find someone selling an old one.

Actually that is not as rare as it sounds, a bunch of them are out there.

Rolling block and Sharps are also available.

I am not sure if a receiver from a trapdoor M1873 or later could be rebarrelled to 50-70. Some one with both chamberings would have to mention and comment.

Good luck.

[13Echo]

I have an 1868 Springfield with a decent but not pristine bore. It will shoot the Lee version of the Goverment bullet but not the slightly smaller diameter Lyman version. Even with the rather primitive sights and 60 year old eyes it will give a decent group at 100yds. I'm shooting 65 grs of Goex FFg in Annealed Starline brass with a Federal 215 primer with a firm crimp over the front band. The bullet is cast from 30:1 lead tin alloy with homebrew lube and no wads. Basically I'm trying to dupicate the military load. Thumper is a hoot to shoot and it is still a thrill to take the old soldier to the range. Unfortunately carbines in 50-70 are very scarce but I also would love to have one.

Jerry Liles

[13Echo]

There is an 1870 Trapdoor barreled action on Dr Frasca's site that could be used to make a carbine. Just needs lock, trigger and trigger guard, stock, barrel bands, sights, etc. Practically builds itself.

Jerry Liles

[StrawHat]

There is an 1870 Trapdoor barreled action on Dr Frasca's site that could be used to make a carbine. Just needs lock, trigger and trigger guard, stock, barrel bands, sights, etc. Practically builds itself.

Jerry Liles

That's what I was trying to do.

I had neither the time nor the patience.

Good luck if anyone goes this route.

[13Echo]

Well Strawhat I have to say your Frankentrap turned out pretty good, at least in the pictures. By the way over on the ASSRA site in the For Sale section there is a very nicely done cut down 1868 that is probably just what you had in mid. Sure looks pretty.

Jerry Liles

[WBH]

I load the 50-70 for two different rifles. One is an original Remingtom RB action that now wears Treebone wood and a Green Mountain barrel. The other is a mint condition NYS militia Remington RB. Both are a pleasure to shoot. Recoil is mild even in the lighter military rifle. I have been using the Lee and the RCBS 500 grain boolits cast in 20:1 with a .060 veggie card. Lube is my own homemade brew. I do have a 650gr PJ Creedmore long range boolit.........but I use that for my 50-90 at longer ranges.

[rockrat]

StrawHat----sorry I have been remiss in posting pics. Friend went back in hospital and have been distracted. Looks just like a regular #1 but with a big hole in the end!!

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d149/Bigdog337/Picture018.jpg

[NickSS]

Thanks for the info on your rifle. I have used the 1866 rifle of mine more than the Sharps as I have had it longer. My Springfield had sporting sights put on it back in the last century a rocky mountain german silver blace front sight that is soldered into the base of the military front sight/bayonet lug and a rather unusual U shaped rear fixed sight dovetailed into the barrel where the GI sight was. This U sight has a small notch in the bottom when you draw the top of the front sight down fine it shoots right on at 100 yards. To shoot further I found that you raise the barrel and the barrel acts like a big sight between the arms of the U. If I set the front band at the base of the U and put the target on top of the front blade this rifle will hit point of aim at 200 yards. I have even figured the hold over out to 300 yards with it and I can ring an 18 inch gong almost every shot at that range. Its a fun rifle. My ambition is to shoot a buffalo with it perhaps next fall.

[StrawHat]

Wow, and I thought there would be only one or two responses.

Glad to see there are more folks who appreciate the 50-70.

[bart55]

I have a NY roller that was cut down for a legion parade gun, had it denickled and put a tang sight on it . I use the lee 450 gr with either a case full of double f or 27gr of 5744 I use home made emerets for the black and felix lube for the smokeless and both are very accurate with the short bbl. I have shot at our clubs longest range (250yrds and can keep the shots in the kill area of a deer target ) at 100yrds it stays in about 3in. . I sure love that 5070 hunted with it but did not get a shot at a deer yet . with the old war horse ..

[Tom Herman]

I load the 50-70 for two different rifles. One is an original Remingtom RB action that now wears Treebone wood and a Green Mountain barrel. The other is a mint condition NYS militia Remington RB. Both are a pleasure to shoot. Recoil is mild even in the lighter military rifle. I have been using the Lee and the RCBS 500 grain boolits cast in 20:1 with a .060 veggie card. Lube is my own homemade brew. I do have a 650gr PJ Creedmore long range boolit.........but I use that for my 50-90 at longer ranges.

Excellent on your two 50/70 rifles! The NYS Militia rifle is on my short list of guns to acquire.... The RRB sounds nice as well. I may wind up springing for an Argentine RRB, or working up an action for 50/70.
A couple of years ago, I picked up a nice M1868 Trapdoor that someone sporterized. The local gunsmith has this thing about trying to talk anyone out of firing anything but modern weapons (long overdue to change gunsmiths), but he took it to another gunsmith and that one said I could run blackpowder through it.
The bore is in great shape. I have the dies, will get the proper bullet mould, and begin rolling my own.
The 50/70 is an awesome caliber that deserves a larger following.

[wa tyrrell]

.50-70 has long been one of my favorites. First gun was a NYS RB rifle. Second was a converted '63 sharps. Since the: 2 '68 Springfields, NYS carbine, 2nd model Allin conv, Springfield Sharps rifle.

The RB's are quite accurate. I had some pause shooting the Allin, but it locked up tight, so I gave it a try.

There is a loading in the Lyman book which I use. It is a Unique load with a dacron wad.

[missionary5155]

My thanks also to everyone who responded. I recently bought an Allen Trapdoor and was wondering where to get info....

[missionary5155]

Hello wa Tyrell...
The RB's are quite accurate. I had some pause shooting the Allin, but it locked up tight, so I gave it a try.

With your round ball load... are you loading a bore size ball or slightly oversize ?
What powders have you tried with these RB loads ?
Any lube involved ?
Thanks !!! :)

[wa tyrrell]

What is gun collecting like in Peru? What sort of stuff is available?

[wa tyrrell]

Sorry, RB meant Rolling Block. I use the Lyman 515141 bullet.Recently I have been buying them rather then casting them. The lube is blue.

[missionary5155]

What is gun collecting like in Peru? What sort of stuff is available?

Good morning... Well there are are sorts of odd and ends that pop up... mostly European... Every arm has a registration process that if done individually will cost about $45 each. I seldom see any real collector items worth anything. Most arms down here are passed on and repaired and modified beyond value. My 1892 SRC 44-40 has a filed down flat on the receiver ring with threaded screw hole and a local disigned scope mount that also uses the dovetail for the rear sight. Barrel was badly wallowed out at the muzzle rendering it a barn door pattern rifle at 50 yds. Took off 2 inches and it is like new now.
Lots of Russion and Turkish stuff available. I stick with revolvers S&W and Colt. Some of those are found from the 60´s and 70´s...some just carried and seldom shot. :)
I wrote asking about your RB loads in 50-70.

[missionary5155]

Sorry, RB meant Rolling Block. I use the Lyman 515141 bullet.Recently I have been buying them rather then casting them. The lube is blue.

Thanks My brain sees RB and I immediatly think od Round balls.... I am a front stuffer at heart and thouroghly enjoy launching balls from 12 gauge...

[wa tyrrell]

I have a few front stuffers, but I have gotten lazy and haven't shot them much lately. One is an 1816 Springfield with a Colt style civil war conversion. Another is a reproduction Kentucky, which I recently got some balls for and plan to shoot inthe near future.

[georgewxxx]

If your looking for some ideas as what to shoot in your 50-70, check out Castpics. In the articles by members, my long winded piece on trapdoors there's a way to use sabots listed....Geo

[ndnchf]

Strawhat,

Can you tell me more about your Mississippi trapdoor? I'd be interested in hearing more details on the conversion. Have you refinished it yet? I picked up an 1868 model barreled action and would like to do something similar - thanks.

[StrawHat]

Another question on 50-70 loads.

Springfield Armory used a hollow based bullet in the 45-70. Did they alos use a hollow base in the 50-70? I have looked for a mold but am unable to find a 50 caliber hollow base.

Thanks.

[StrawHat]

Strawhat,

Can you tell me more about your Mississippi trapdoor? I'd be interested in hearing more details on the conversion. Have you refinished it yet? I picked up an 1868 model barreled action and would like to do something similar - thanks.



Sorry, I just saw your query.

What can I tell you? The barrel and reciever are original to 1866, actually earlier as it is a converted musket. The 58 bore was lined down to 50 at Springfield Armory. I had hoped to rebuild it to original specs but ran out of money way too soon on that idea! Next best case would have been an Italian 1861 musket to convert but I still have not found one of those so when the damaged 1841 showed up I snagged it.

It was fairly simple to reassemble. As I said, I needed to glass bed the barrel and inlet the breech area for the parts of the trapdoor that were not present on a muzzleloader but the inletting is minor. Original rifles bent the hammers to fit but I did not think the italian casting was up to the task so cut it off and soldered an extension on it.

I am still refinishing it. So far I have applied stain and three coats of oil. Next is wax and call it done.

Any other questions I have missed? Please ask, I have no problem sharing info, or talking about guns.

Good luck

StrawHat

[13Echo]

The original bullet for the 50-70 is a 450 gr, flat base, lubed bullet. Lyman's 515141 and the Lee 450gr cone nosed bullet are both good copies of the original. The Lee does very well in my 1868 Springfield but the Lyman is a bit too small in diameter for the rifle and won't stay on target at a mere 50 yds. The Lyman does very well in a Friends Shiloh.

Jerry Liles

[StrawHat]

The original bullet for the 50-70 is a 450 gr, flat base, lubed bullet. Lyman's 515141 and the Lee 450gr cone nosed bullet are both good copies of the original. The Lee does very well in my 1868 Springfield but the Lyman is a bit too small in diameter for the rifle and won't stay on target at a mere 50 yds. The Lyman does very well in a Friends Shiloh.

Jerry Liles

Thank you Jerry, I have both of those molds so I will be content and cease looking for a 50 caliber HB. Makes my life easier!

[chief3]

I have an 1869 Navy rolling block carbine in 50/50. This is just a short version of the 50/70.
With 50gr. Goex 2f and a 350 gr boolit it will keep 5 shots under 2" @ 100 yds. Of course that is with a younger and better shooter doing the shooting. My 70 yr old eyes only allow 3-4 in. groups.
Could it be that soft lead , black powder, and 50 cal. are just basically accurate ?

[StrawHat]

I have an 1869 Navy rolling block carbine in 50/50. This is just a short version of the 50/70.
With 50gr. Goex 2f and a 350 gr boolit it will keep 5 shots under 2" @ 100 yds. Of course that is with a younger and better shooter doing the shooting. My 70 yr old eyes only allow 3-4 in. groups.
Could it be that soft lead , black powder, and 50 cal. are just basically accurate ?

It must be, and many guys are realizing it is so. That combination is also very effective on game. I wish more companies would offer it as a chambering. A new trapdoor would be nice.

[StrawHat]

Well this is an old thread but so what. I got the frankentrapdoor out a couple weekends ago and took it to a friends property with 10 rounds of ammo and a file. The first couple of shots were at 50 yards and I was just filing in the windage prior to moving out to 100 yards. I was able to get the rifle on paper and fairly close to the POA with just the ten shots. Now I can start some serious load development and file the sights for the final load. The trial load was the Lee boolit over black powder and a grease wad. I am going to try the Lyman 515141 and some loads without wads.

[SMPARKINSON]

I've been a gun collector all my life, on and off. Never had a trapdoor before, but I saw this old dog ob Gunbroker for just over $300. and figured what the heck. And when I checked Buffolo Arms and saw that 50-70 brass was only a little over a buck a pop, again I thought what the heck.
Now the seller said they didn't know much about it, but she measured the caliber at the muzzle at about .50, so from the little I know about Trapdoors, I figured it was probably a 50-70. Since the breechblock is marked 1873 I figure either it was replaced or the seller measured wrong or I don't know what else? She said I could get a refund if I didn't want to keep it, so the most I'll be out is my shipping costs, and I figured I'd take a chance.
Now as I said I don't know much about Trapdoord, but I've handled guns my whole life, so I guess I can tell if the action is tight and if the firing pin will strike a piece of aluminum foil balled up in the chamber. So assuming it's tight and has a firing pin, I might have something that goes bang.
So here's my questions to you people who do know Trapdoors......what does it look like I have, and how much of a Frankenstein is it, and does the replacement breechblock possibly make it something that shouldnt go bang? And why does the lockplate say SPRINGFIELD and nothing else? Hope you can help me. Thanks in advance!
Steve

[xtimberman]

JMO, but you have a nice $300 relic wall-hanger.

From what I see, I wouldn't shoot that rifle - even with it strapped down to some old tires. Hard to tell how deep the pitting goes, and rust-filled pitting has led to the destruction of too many old relics.

...too many safe shooters out there to worry with an iffy one.....

It would look very nice hanging over your fireplace.

I'm not too familiar with 'em, but it's probably an early musket conversion to trap-door - with a later parts-swap.

xtm

[John Boy]

1879 RRB Musket, 50-70, contract sale to the Michigan Militia.
* Shooting 1000yds in strong winds: 68gr Fg and 450gr bullet with Argentine 1400yd ladder sight
* "My Infamous Miss' - High Bore Spinner, 3' to right of 1000yd target
Spotter said - "That sucker was going about 150 mph"

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Ridgway%20May%202009/IMGP0220.jpg

[georgewxxx]

Steve, You have a mixmaster of parts. Your receiver, hammer, rear sight, and front sling swivel Look like 1870 parts, because it has no serial number on the top of the receiver that I can see it must be a 1870. The ramrod, and trigger bow is standard 1884 rifle.

Should you shoot it? I'm the last person to tell someone what they should or should not do with their new toy. One of the first things I do when trying to decide on a new trapdoor purchase is check the muzzle. About half of the guns available from auctions & gun shows today have the rifling worn down so bad from running the ramrod in & out so much they can't shoot a good group.

http://www.sodcity.com/gallery2/view_album.php?set_albumName=Cartridge-Springfield-pictures-etc&page=3

Scroll down half way on the page of this link from my web albums. It show several pictures of 50-70 cases, bullets, and compressed powder that the U.S. Government used, and some were just experimental. Notice the concave or notched bottom on most of the bullets used from the .50 pistol to the .45-70. Both 50-70 & .45-70 bullets were rolled, not cast. The Pitman Notes books are all full of great wealth firearm history.

A lot of speculation as to how they assembled the cases with so much powder. I think if you check, the old cases really didn't hold all that much more powder than the new heavy ones we have available to us today. Even the Civil War era percussion pistol rounds were put together with a skin wrapped bullet over a pellet of black powder.

[StrawHat]

georgexxx,

Your deer ammo for the 50-70 certainly caught my eye.

" ...50-70 Springfield
My deer ammo
Ideal 518145HP-333 grains sized .518
18grains WW-540
Federal 210 primer ... "

What do you shoot that from, a trapdoor, rolling block, ...?

[georgewxxx]

An old modified 1868 Springfield mostly.
There's a picture of it in my article on Castpics. Go to Articles by members under Trapdoor Springfield. It was done a number of years ago, but still mostly relevant. That load in my 1870 rife will do a easy 2" going 1330fps. In that short easy to carry 1868 3.5" is all, but still angle of deer, as I've taken close to 35 deer with that gun threw the years I've had it. I use a cut out piece of poly-foam wad over that powder....Geo

[StrawHat]

After handling the 50-70 for a while, I decided I no longer cared for the lighter colored stock so I got out the scrapers and went to work. The wood was proud of the brass in a couple of places so I took down my #1 hand plane and removed what was necessary. Then two coats of home brewed walnut stain. (I have two American black walnut trees and just drop the nuts into a can of alcohol. Strain it and keep adding nuts until it is dark enough.) I may give it a coat of mahogany stain to add a bit of red more in keeping with the look of American walnut wood.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/Frankentrapdoorrefinish001.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/Frankentrapdoorrefinish002.jpg

I like the Trapdoor that georgewxxx has. The idea of the brass tacks is intriguing. Just not sure where I could put them on the Mississippi, it already has a bit of brass!

[georgewxxx]

Before I added any tacks to mine I looked around for pictures of real Indian rifles and how they were decorated. Mine not being any kind of real collectors piece was a excellent candidate as your is. Just be sure of what you really want because adding extra pin holes to the wood because it will look terrible if you change your mind later. Remember where your face rubs on the stock when shooting too, even flat tacks would hurt raking across your puss when firing full tilt loads.

[Heming-Stein]

I had a C. Sharps 50-70 carbine (custom, 24 inch barrel, made only for this person--C. Sharps will refuse outside orders--I know, I tried) that a close friend traded me for a c. sharps business rifle with a 30 inch barrel. My friend shot for years on the Canadian National Rifle Team (Dominion Rifles) and took a first place in the 800 meter aggregates.

I felt forced to sell this when Canadian gun registration put pressure on the repros. I sold it to a military historian who shot on the same team. There was enough money there to buy my wife a maple syrup processor and I was able to buy a shootable NYS militia rifle from a contact in the Yukon. I load for this 1873 rifle--scars galore on the stock, but a safe and pleasant shoot. Bulk load 70 grains of ffg black powder and push a 500 grain cast bullet. I had a mould customized to hollow point and hope to face off with black bear or moose--living on the Canadian Shield, these are still available free-ranging. I have to keep checking up on the repaired stock cracks from time to time.

I finally realized after 40 years of shooting and hunting that originals are affordable if you hunt them out. Recently, a gunshop owner told me that he had sold an original Kentucky Militia Rifle
(Rolling Block) in 50-70 Govt for $1,200.00 in UNFIRED CONDITION!! Go hunting boys!
-Heming-Steom

[Reverend Al]

I have a NYS Militia Rolling Block rifle with a beautiful bore, a Lyman mould, Lyman dies, and 60 rounds of brass. Years ago I loaded about 20 rounds with some SR4759 and they shot fairly well. It's another one of the MANY guns that I now have to get around to shooting since I've retired! (Bottom of the rack under my .303 Martini)
;-)61014

[georgewxxx]

Reverend Al, The one big issue I have with my NY RB, is the sighting system. Crude at best for any target shooting. I temporialy replaced the rear sight with a Springfield Buffington sight and put a removable front sight made from a stiff wire. Groups size deminished considerably.

Bill, Years ago they used to sell kits to make muzzle loaders out of trapdoors, I don't know why your idea of doing the reverse should any problem with minor fitting. Just make sure to avoid a 1866 barreled receiver if possible. They are the weakist of the weak. Only the lightest smokeless, and light black powder charges should be used, as those barrels are just reamed and sleeved Civil War rifles.

[StrawHat]

Could a Zouave be converted to a 50-70 trap door?

I have an old Italian copy with a bad barrel.

Don't see why not, in posts #1 and #43, I have shown what I did with a replica of the Mississippi Rifle. Here is another shot.


http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/ScoutRifleandRevolver001.jpg

I used an 1866 barreled action. It was not a little work. The barrel channel was to wide and needed to be reduced, I used bedding compound. The action needed to be inlet where the ejector spring and extractor protruded from the barrel. The tang on the 1866 was shorter than the inlet in the stock so I fitted a dutchman and stained it to match. New sights were a must for my eyes. The stock was stained and finished then after a year or so stripped , stained and finished again.

The 1865 and the 1866 are the Springfields responsible for the myth of the weak action. These rifles were built from muzzleloaders, the breech was milled away, a new swinging breesch soldered and screwed to the barrel. The barrel was broached and a 3 diameter liner was soldered in place. Truly amazing considering they were using belt run machinery at the time. The Civil War was barely over and the Army was re-equiping itself with what they had and could make do with. I load mine with black powder and lead. (there is a group buy for a 50 caliber hollow based boolit for these rifles
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?116326-NOE-515141-450Gr-FN ) I enjoy mine and would build another if I had the parts. I have considered a 45-70 but the more I use the 50 the less I find I need the smaller, flatter shooting 45! If I need something smaller, I grab the 405 WCF.

Good luck with the build, if you have any questions, get in touch.

[cwskirmisher]

I have an original Sharps, arsenal converted to 50-70 that shoots just fabuloso. I keep the loads mild to keep from hammering the gun unneccessarily, but it shoots the Lyman 515141 like it was made for it.... There are very few ground hogs in my back 40 anymore. Guess they're 'skeered'. Overkill? Sure. So? Ded is ded.
:)

[school of mines]

Weather was nice enough on Wednesday to take my 1870 50-70 trapdoor to the range. This rifle shoots awesome with a load consisting of a 515142 over a .060" wad on top of 57gr of 1 1/2FG. The wind was blowing directly towards the firing and line and when I touched one off I had a face full of smoke! Ha! Couldn't see the targe for awhile but it cleared out pretty quick. I sure enjoy my 50-70. I shot the last of the 515142s up I had and will be switching to the 515141s.