Options for 185 grains SWC .45.

[zanemoseley]

I've cast about 3000-4000 of the RCBS 45-200-swc H&G 68 clone boolits with good success. I'm trying to get better at bullseye shooting and the problem I'm having is recoil anticipation with my .45 so I'm thinking of dropping down to a 185 grain boolit for 25 yard bullseye shooting, most of the people at the bullseye comps are shooting them anyway. One of the guys I shoot with let me try out his 185 grain button nose SWC rounds similar to the Saeco 185 grain mold, this round didn't want to feed well in my Les Baer pistol. This leads me to looking at 185 grain versions of the H&G 68 profile like the RCBS 45-200-swc-bb, this is kind of nice as I have the handles already for RCBS molds. Are there any other molds (preferable under $100) I should be looking at?

[jaysouth]

What is your powder and load? What weight spring are you using. You could install a 13 pound spring and load the 200s to about 700 fps and still get good results with an lot less recoil

[gtgeorge]

Powder choice seems to help felt recoil more than a 15gr drop in boolit weight IMO. I have found WST to be very accurate while making power factor for IDPA. If I was more concerned with recoil and did not need to make power factor Red Dot and trail boss make some soft loads. Trail boss being exceptionaly light while still cycling the factory recoild spring and maintaining good group.

[zanemoseley]

I've been running 3.9 grains of Bullseye on top of CCI primers. I had the stock 16lb spring up until last weekend when I installed a 15lb variable Wolff spring. I actually just picked up 3 pounds of WST on the recommendation of a distinguished shooter that has been helping me, he thinks the WST is a bit more of a pushing recoil versus the snappy recoil of Bullseye. I loaded some with 3.9 grains of WST tonight to use in a match tomorrow. I also questioned how much 15 grains of weight difference would make but I need all I can get lol. My brain is frustrating me, my .22 and air pistol scores are decent but the .45 is a different animal that my brain has decided it doesn't like.

[Leadmelter]

If you want to try some 170gr boolits, look at Dardas boolits here in MI. I bought 1K of there 180 gr. boolits to try this winter. I bought an Accurate Mold 175 gr clone, waiting a for a break in the weather to try.
Good Luck

Leadmelter
MI

[zanemoseley]

Dang Dardas has .45 bullets all the way down to 150 grain.

[ioon44]

I shoot a 185 gr SWC for NRA Action matches with 4.1gr of Bullseye, at 25 yards groups are around 1.25" with HI-TEK coating.

I buy these from glcbullets.com.

[gtgeorge]

I feel WST is more of a push as well and is the one powder I my wife enjoys shooting in her 1911. The WST loads are also what she shoots best and helping her overcome recoil anticipation.

I can't imagine a 150gr bullet in a 45 because of the diameter but if they will fly straight might be a good way to overcome recoil.

[ioon44]

I shot a lot of .45 155gr SWC from the Magma molds, they shot ok but not as accurate as the 185gr SWC.

[oger]

Don't know if this will help or hurt but I shoot a lot 44mag and after the recoil of a 4in smith the 45acp feels like a 22.

[Calamity Jake]

Take a look at the RCBS 45-185 SWCBB, I use to shoot this boolit a lot,
just don't shoot the ACP much anymore.

[ole 5 hole group]

Never used WST powder - I currently shoot VV N310 and N320, with N310 being my powder of choice. If you still have a quantity of Bullseye - maybe go down to 3.2 grains with the 185 grain cast. We used a 12 to 14 pound recoil spring and 3.2 grains of bullseye for the 25 yard line. When using a hardball pistol with the 185 grain cast I went to 3.5 grains of bullseye with the 16 pound recoil spring.

[bhn22]

This is going to sound mean, but with the combination you're using I'd suggest working on your technique to overcome the issue.

[N21911S]

zanemoseley, you have identified the problem, so fix the problem. No amount of Band-Aid gun/ammo manipulation looking for softer recoil is ever gonna fix the real issue. That being, you are not focusing on the front sight to the extent required. Proper practice as in dry firing and firing one shot at a time are very helpful in overcoming the problem. A friend of mind said, "bullseye is 95% mental, the rest of it is in your head". Truer words were never spoken.

Please forgive me for sounding harsh or impolite. I'm just an old bullseye shooter and am still amazed at what bullseye taught me. Thanks, and with hard work you will get there, Bill

[wv109323]

The 185 gn. Bullet is less reliable feeding in the 1911 due to the shorter nose. The blowback energy to function the slide is the same regardless of bullet weight so recoil will be about the same. If the 200 gn. Is barely working the slide you will need to step the load up to get the 185 to work. You can reduce the spring and get lighter loads.
You identified the problem. You will need to overcome that problem before you can advance. You need to correct the problem now or you will carry the problem with you making the correction more difficult in the future.
Overcome by dry firing. Shoot at the center of blank paper to establish your area of hold. When you apply initial trigger pressure apply enough press you think you will set the gun off. (After sight alignment) . The rest of trigger pressure needed to discharge the pistol should be easier to break as a surprise.

[stu1ritter]

The accuracy standards have always been the H&G #68 for a 200 gr and the #130 for 185 gr. Historically these have been placed in front of 3.5 - 3.8 gr of bullseye. If your gun won't feed the #130, you should get your gun fixed. Many very famous target shooters used these loads over the years. Jim Clark, F. Bob Chow, Harry Reeves, Gertrude Backstrom, Toomey, etc. The only one I remember who used a different bullet was Gil Hebert, he used a Saeco version. If you are suffering from recoil anticipation you need to practice ball and dummy. We did this on Army teams for an hour every morning. One guy would load and the other would shoot for half an hour and then switch. You can do the same by loading some dummy rounds and mixing in one or two when you load the magazine. If you don't look while you are loading, you won't know where the dummy round is. I make up mine using the same bullet only no primer. I don't look while I load the mag, and practice quite a
bit to control recoil anticipation. If I stop doing ball and dummy I start flinching, usually pushing the gun down or heeling it up. I've been shooting bullseye for 55 years and still flinch if I don't practice.
Stu

[10sandxs]

I'm a master class trying for HM and played a lot with the lyman 452460, 452630, HG 68 and HG 130 with minimal improvement. Changing powders and springs is the better way to go, but as several others have mentioned, its all in our heads.

One thing that helped me overcome the anticipation with the 45 was to dryfire the gun while seated and relaxed. Make sure the gun is unloaded, get your grip, and just lay the gun in you're lap and pull the trigger. Don't worry about sights or position, just close your eyes and focus on the actual trigger pull. I did this three times a week for about a year and my scores went from 820 to 850 with no additional range time. After about 20 seated trigger pulls, I stood up and got into position for ten dryfire shots at a dot on the wall. I also kept track of good shots and had a goal that I tried to make each session.

It takes two brain cells to be a good bullseye shooter, one to line the sights up and one to pull the trigger. Tell the trigger puller to relax, give him some training and he'll learn what to do.

[TenTea]

The accuracy standards have always been the H&G #68 for a 200 gr and the #130 for 185 gr. Historically these have been placed in front of 3.5 - 3.8 gr of bullseye. If your gun won't feed the #130, you should get your gun fixed. Many very famous target shooters used these loads over the years. Jim Clark, F. Bob Chow, Harry Reeves, Gertrude Backstrom, Toomey, etc. The only one I remember who used a different bullet was Gil Hebert, he used a Saeco version. If you are suffering from recoil anticipation you need to practice ball and dummy. We did this on Army teams for an hour every morning. One guy would load and the other would shoot for half an hour and then switch. You can do the same by loading some dummy rounds and mixing in one or two when you load the magazine. If you don't look while you are loading, you won't know where the dummy round is. I make up mine using the same bullet only no primer. I don't look while I load the mag, and practice quite a
bit to control recoil anticipation. If I stop doing ball and dummy I start flinching, usually pushing the gun down or heeling it up. I've been shooting bullseye for 55 years and still flinch if I don't practice.
Stu

Thanks for this post and the historical reference points.

[zanemoseley]

Thanks for the advice guys. I shot another match yesterday in some horrible hot weather but still managed to raise my score 128 points from last match, albeit from 1861 to 1989 but I'll take it. I also tried ball and dummy training Saturday for the first time and I can tell it will really help me out. I tried WST powder for this match and I think I do like it better than Bullseye. I actually feel like I'm on the cusp of figuring out what's required for me to put .45 rounds down range without flinching, perhaps a couple thousand more rounds will reinforce it for me.

[LenH]

zanemosley, we shot a match this past Saturday in the Memphis area, it was 96° and 65% humidity. I feel your pain.