High shots/Report Flinch?

[M71]

I set up at Pawnee National Grasslands yesterday. I will illustrate a succession of three 10 shot targets. I'm experiencing consistent high shots. I think I identified the problem early and made a conscious effort to stay with the gun after the shot. Once, probably due to fatigue I took careful aim and pulled the set trigger but alas, the hammer was still in half cock position. Well, no flinch that time. I think the flinch occurs at the report of the rifle. I sort of lean back just a bit at the moment the rifle fires. Shooting a 34" barrel confounds the problem because it takes time for the bullet to clear the muzzle. The targets did show improvement but even the third target showed verticle stringing though 9 of 10 shots were in the black 4" circle. The first shot in the 3rd target was the high one and at that point I really focused on staying still. Range is 100 yards, paper patched 530 gr. bullet, bench shooting. I hate admitting this shooting behavior because it's kind of like admitting you wet the bed. Perhaps using shooting sticks I would be less prone to react to the shot. All I can think of right now is just more practice and trigger time. Have any of you experienced this?

[NSB]

First of all, you're a rare person who can admit that recoil causes a flinch. I can't even begin to tell you how many shooters have told me over the years that recoil doesn't bother them and then watch them proceed to flinch like crazy. Lots of people have that problem. Shooting any gun can cause a flinch, but shooting big bores can really make it worse. A lot can be helped simply by having the gun up high enough to allow the shooter to sit up straighter and be pushed back rather than having the recoil pushing down on the shoulder. Wearing plugs and muffs also helps. A lot of flinch is due to noise as well as recoil. As far as the longer barrel contributing to the problem....that's probably not happening. Think about how long it takes a bullet to travel four inches even at 1400fps....it's not a big contributor. I believe two things are at play here. First, you're not getting a consistent rest with the gun because you're bracing for the shot. Your grip is changing and you're tensing up. Second, this tensing up is not allowing you to follow through on the shot. One other thing.....try changing the bag placement on the front. Sometimes having it too far forward can cause erratic up and down dispersal. Remember, the more you shoot the less recoil will bother you. Good luck and hang in there. You're NOT ALONE.

Edit: try shooting some lighter bullets for a while and working your way up. You're using some pretty stout stuff there. It might help to reduce the recoil somewhat until you acclimate to it.

[Don McDowell]

Could be flinch. Could be if you're not in a fairly upright position, you may be causing the stringing by in consistant view thru the sights, get that rest up high enough you're not bent over looking thru the sights. Could be the grip on the gun. Could be fouling problems. Could be the load, might need to change the powder charge, wad stack, or patch length.
Could also be springing for some real targets might help.

[M71]

Could be flinch. Could be if you're not in a fairly upright position, you may be causing the stringing by in consistant view thru the sights, get that rest up high enough you're not bent over looking thru the sights. Could be the grip on the gun. Could be fouling problems. Could be the load, might need to change the powder charge, wad stack, or patch length.
Could also be springing for some real targets might help.

I'm sitting fully upright, only leaning my neck/face forward enough to see through the sight. The gun is resting on the junction of the for-end tip and the for-end. The only reason I'm suggesting flinch is because I really put forth conscious effort to not flinch and the results were improving. I was wiping with two wet and one dry patch between shots, so upon examination the bore was very clean. Any less wiping and the bore revealed less than acceptable housekeeping. One other possibility could be using a smaller aperture hole. I don't currently have a "Hadley". My "homemade" targets have maximum contrast for these 61 year old eyes. I would like to think using official targets would help but mail order would be my only alternative. When my supply of paste board is exhausted I'll fetch some "real" targets. Admittedly it's hard to make assumptions but there was something going on when reading the targets. There was no leading visible on the patches, easily seen in the bright sun if it was there. The wad stack really isn't a stack, just a 'Walter's" .030. perhaps a punched out playing card wad or a wax paper wad under the bullet would prevent wad sticking. I'm not using a grease cookie. This is a fun hobby, trial and error. The brass is being cleaned as I type this. I'll load the 30 fire formed cases this afternoon with the addition of a card wad. The cases were all the same length and the paper patches were all consistently placed on the bullets. I could wrap the bullets a bit farther forward, guaranteeing engagement with the lands. Currently the base of the bullet is fully covered with the folds. I've seem photos of the bullet's base where a circle of the bare base is exposed. I enjoy shooting at the grasslands even though hole in hole accuracy seems as far away as the horizon out there. I appreciate your thoughts on reading the targets.

[Don McDowell]

Might try resting further back on the forearm, right under the bolt might be a good place. Also maybe think about a set of benchrest crossticks, and forego the front bags.
A "flinch" will generally just scatter shots in a random pattern, and not display the verticle shown on your targets.

[Bent Ramrod]

I notice that as the shooting progresses, I have to re-evaluate my hand grip and cheek pressure on the stock, or high shots start happening. It's more insidious than flinching per se, although the tensing up is a cumulative response to the recoil. Every once in a while, I get in some sort of Zen state where I can feel that I'm gripping just right, and cheeking just lightly enough, exactly the same for five or ten shots and really manage to impress myself. It doesn't happen nearly often enough.

When I'm testing ammunition, I might load 50 or more but I only shoot 20 or 25 at a given sitting, for that every reason. I'm not bruised or battered, but figure I'm jangled enough from the recoil for one session and can expect that if I keep going, it will be a factor in the next groups I try to shoot.

[powderburnerr]

get two small pieces of tape ,put one on the stock where your cheek welds and one on your shoulder where the butt rests , set the rifle on these pieces of tape until they are there every time , this puts the stock in the exact place every time ,torque is more of a factor in these rifles than is recoil , in my opinion.

[montana_charlie]

The only reason I'm suggesting flinch is because I really put forth conscious effort to not flinch and the results were improving.
Some days I have tight control over every little nit-pic. I carefully watch the spirit level, and concentrate on proper thunb position ... along with a bunch of other 'important' factors.
When I do that, I get a pretty fair group ... on most days.

But, there are days when I go out with a lot less concentration.
Maybe I am just shooting up a batch of ammo so I can try out a different load, or I might be preoccupied with something about the cows.
Whatever it is, on the days when I shoot 'casually' I often get groups that are better than the ones where 'I try too hard'.

Looking back, it seems that if I am serious enough to take the spotting scope along, I will end up trying too hard.

Maybe you just need to relax more, and let it be fun ...

CM

[country gent]

Another cause of vertical with these rifles is inconsistant pressures on the stock , Hold and bags. Randolph S Wright makes a very good argumnt for these rifles "flexing" on solid support. The old english stopping rifles doubles and single shots were sighted regulated from a shoting post that supported the forward hand when standing, to help keep recoil flex and other things the same as shooting offhand. It also made the heavy recoil of these rifles more managable. You may be causeing a harmonics or flexing issue with slight inconsistancies in hold pressures causing the high shots. Another trick is to ark the barrel with tape where the front rest is positioned so that it is aklways in the same place each time.

[Gunlaker]

What CountryGent says about consistent stock pressure is very important. A lightly held rifle will shoot to a different point than a tightly held one. An example of this is to check with people who've shot the same rifle prone vs. offhand. My offhand sight settings are a little different than for prone. About 2 minutes at 200.Chris.

[country gent]

Another none of us want to admit to is fatigue. These big rifles ad recoil eat up alot of energy and as we get tired the nervous system takes over. Sometimes something as simple as a break and sip or two of cold water maybe a short bull session between groups can make a big diffrence. Some times a little break or time to relax and let your self recover helps alot.

[NSB]

I can take either of my High Walls, Low Walls, or Win 1886 and change the POI simply by putting my cheek down harder or softer on the stock and moving the bags out further. These types of guns don't have a one piece stock and flex under pressure. Sitting up straight and putting the bag in the right spot and cheeking it the same every time will make a big difference. I can "turn it on, turn it off" simply be doing that.

[tdoyka]

i think this is what happened to me.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/tdoyka/1437087067858.3_zps3rbr0rmk.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/tdoyka/media/1437087067858.3_zps3rbr0rmk.jpg.html)

i was shooting my 1898 springfield in 30-40 krag when this happened. i may have looked at the sights a different way, may have flinched, may have put my shoulder in the wrong spot and messed up my cheek weld.....
i don't know, but the next one came out all right.(trying to find the best best load for deer)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/tdoyka/1437087129684.4_zpsv8fo26tz.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/tdoyka/media/1437087129684.4_zpsv8fo26tz.jpg.html)

i don't know what happened, but it was my fault, not the gun's.

[leadman]

I have had similar issues with high shots and found it was the table I was using for my rest. Seemed solid but putting pressure on the table could cause it to flex a little. Does not take much.
Try rocking it a little while looking thru the sights and see what happens.