Modified 45/45/10 for lube sizer, misc questions

[zubrato]

currently tumble lube 9mm/38sp/357 and even 8x57 at what I can only assume from loading manuals 2300fps
have great results, but for a few reasons I would really like to pick up a lube sizer

very little 45/45/10 is needed, so filling entire grease grooves with the stuff doesn't seem economical

any experimenters who have used 2 parts boiled down JPW to 1 part alox for a lube sizer? any other commercially available ingredients to either harden or soften it up to fill grease grooves but stay put for long term storage?
looking to somewhat replicate 50/50 lube

I intend to use this mix for pistol lube/magnum loads, so I think adding a bit more JPW would probably be fine in the amounts present in the grease groove.

For rifle initially I intend to use carnauba red, love the look of it :bigsmyl2:
even though the 45/45/10 has served me very well at any velocity i've pushed an 8mm pill (188gr boolit gas checked above 40 gr IMR4895, favorite load but no chrono)

How many boolits can you guys lube from one stick?


currently looking at an RCBS LAM2
for anyone wondering the main reason I'm looking to move away from tumble lubing is on hot days my boolits get warm, and after loading a few mags my hands are caked in excess tumble lube from the exposed portions, not to mention my boolits don't look nearly as good even after all the hard work I put in casting, sorting, seating gas checks, sizing, etc.
hoping i can save a little time by lubing, sizing, and seating a gas check in one operation.
currently I have to pound gas checks on before I can put them through the lee push sizer (or else they come out crooked and not fully seated. lee boolits drop a very fat shank) and tumble lube them twice.


Sorry for the long post guys, I'm totally new to lube sticks, lube sizers, etc and I know you guys are the guys to ask
Thank you in advance

zubrato

[MBTcustom]

There are several options, but 45-45-10 has no place in a lube sizer.
However, WLL sells several different lube products, and I highly recommend their 50/50 or BAC for handguns and 2500+ for the 8X57.

Another alternative you might try and see if you can get results from is powder coat. I think you'd like it in the pistol cartridges. Kind of a PITA but it's another option.

[Budzilla 19]

Another option is Hi-Tek coating system. Easy to do, works like a charm! It'll handle whatever you can throw at it. (I really love the gold coating). They have a rainbow of colors available. Good luck to you.

[zubrato]

I have a feeling that straight 45/45/10 is out, but what about JPW cooked down to 50% of original volume 2:1 in relation to lee liquid alox.
As far as I can tell JPW is paraffin, some long chain hydrocarbons, and carnauba, which should make a pretty solid/tough lube to carry the alox in a grease groove.
I do not intend to add mineral spirits to this mix, and make the pudding consistency classic 45/45/10.

I'm looking for the same indestructible waxy coating on dried tumble lubed bullets, except in a grease groove.

I considered the powder coating, but I'm not really set up for it at this time, but one day I'd love to as long as they have a clear coat.

[Elkins45]

Sounds like what you would end up with would be functionally close to the old 50/50 alox/beeswax formula. But it would be a LOT more work.

[35 shooter]

Have you given BLL a try? 60% alox/40%Johnson's Liquid Wax. Just mix together and shake. It stays in a liquid form and is the best tumble lube i've tried.
Drys in 2 hrs. and is ready for another coat if wanted.
The coating drys hard enough for me to carry rounds in my coat pocket if i want too for hunting.
3 coats has been more than enough for 2500 fps. in my 35 whelen.

[MBTcustom]

Have you tried Carnauba Red? I love that stuff. It's hard enough to stay in the lube grooves, but its soft enough to really work well, and you can buy it.
Also, I don't know if you are aware, but both WLL 50/50 and Xlox 2500+ have alox lube in them. Seems to me what you are trying to do has already been done and is being sold at a very cost effective rate?

[zubrato]

Big thank you to everyone in the thread, I've been doing more reading about lube sizers, and found WLL's page. For the work and prices involved to make my own modified experimental recipe I could easily purchase enough Carnauba Red to last me for a very very very long time.

I do hate to give up and just buy, because I love to tinker so this stays in the back of my mind.

But the fact that CR works from slow 38specials up to 2500+ for my 8x57 (when the 8mm group buy goes thru, since my Lee mold is dying slowly)
That way there's no mixing of lube from pistol to rifle, just changing dies is two thumbs up.

Have you guys had any trouble with crushed hollow CR in bags when sending flat rate envelope from WLL?

[Bullwolf]

Have you guys had any trouble with crushed hollow CR in bags when sending flat rate envelope from WLL?

The hollow CR tubes (and BAC) that I've purchased from WLL came in flat rate envelopes. My tubes have always arrived intact.

I think the plastic cases help protect the lube tubes some as well. C-Red by itself is a pretty tough & durable lube anyways, unless the ambient temperature outside happens to be ridiculously hot.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137393&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1425694656


- Bullwolf

[fryboy]

the color red can be added to about any lube you desire ( if it's just a color thing you're after ... ) by using candle wax dye
tumble lube,as noted,works by covering the bands as opposed to filling the grease grooves ,sadly what works on the surface doesnt translate as is for the lube pump/carrier the grooves best use
JPW boiled down ends up pretty brittle once all the MS is cooked out oh and very very dark ,yup i tried it to make some stick lube , i went into it thinking that removing all the MS would prevent shrinkage later from the MS evaporating , tried a few different recipes to make one work like i wanted ( none however got rid of the disgusting alox smell ) i ended up having to add lanolin in mass quantities to get away from the brittleness of the cooked down JPW/alox mix ( almost 10% according to my notes ) please note that if you use regular alox as opposed to lee's or white labels liquid alox the original MS content is alot lower and the finished product requires less lanolin for added flex/tack
stick lube is a bit easier to make ,especially if you're going to use it in a sizer vs. pan lube and can use heat with said sizer , too many recipes ( and only one trigger finger [sigh] ) work well , if you just have to make it i'd suggest WFFWL ( world famous felix wilgen lube ) but ...using the 45/45/10 as a basis forget the 10%, cook the JPW down to about 1/2-1/3 is left then add the LLA and cook them both down a bit more until you have a very very thick peanut butter type paste at room temp ( that last is important ) add an equal amount of beeswax and then add lanolin as needed for your desired usage/weather conditions

[blikseme300]

Zubrato,

When I started down the path of using lube other than LLA I initially made my own lube based upon recipes found on the interwebs but soon found that the trouble and expense is not worth it as a number of vendors sell good ready to use lube very economically.

I use lube from RandyRat and WLL and am very happy with their products. As their products are so economical I don't worry about how many CB's a stick can lube as it is probably by far the smallest expense when crafting your own ammo.

Yes, I do use 45-45-10 for some applications but prefer to use a Star to lube pistol and rifle CB's even when seating GC's. Yes, I know the initial expense is higher for a Star but the utility of this tool and the lack of needing the right punch depending on CB design far outweighs the lower cost of the 2-stroke lube sizers especially if you are into multiple calibers and mold designs.

Be aware that some lubes work best when a heater is used but the flexibility these offer open up many possibilities that are closed if you limit yourself to lubes that flow at lower temperatures. Here in deep south Texas the temperatures are quite high in summer yet mild in winter (60* is considered a cold spell) so my preference is for lubes that stay solid at around 100*.

I don't prescribe to the need to outfit a Star with air pressure but do recommend a heater. This can be as simple as a heat gun or travelling iron heating a mounting plate. Some of us use self-made heater bases which can be done for very little cost. See how I did a recent one here: http://www.bliksemdonder.com/hobbies/cast-boolits/star-heater/

Cheers from sunny Texas - 100* day today.

[lar45]

The number of bullets per stick will range from 500-1500 depending on the number and size of the lube grooves. I would guess that you would get around 1000 bullets per stick with the calibers you have listed.
The Alox in Liquid Alox is different from the Alox 350 that is used in stick lubes.
I have read about guys useing Liquid Alox to make stick lubes with good results, but it does have Mineral Spirits in it that will evaporate and change the consistency of your lube, especially if you are looking at long term storage.
We package lube in either zip lock bags, or clear plastic tubes(reatil style packaging)
For shipping in the hot summer heat, I would suggest getting it in the clear plastic tubes.
Let us know if there is anything that we can help with.

Glenn.

[Ben]

Glenn is " top shelf ".
You won't go wrong buying lube from him !

Ben