Please describe water dropping techinques

[bpost1958]

Please describe the process from the type of metal used to sizing/lubing when water dropping cast boolits. I am nervous about having water anywhere nearby when dealing with molten lead. I tend to cast a coffee can full of boolits during the day and size/lube them in the evening. I have never slugged the bores of my shooting irons but leading is not a problem.

[HeavyMetal]

Your right to have a fear of water and melted lead! A little paranoia keeps us safe, a lot of paranoia makes us a Democrat!

Now having said that I'll tell you what I do for "Quench Casting".

I set up my pot, or pots, as one normally would with easy access, it's your choice sit or stand, while casting.

At this point, before you turn on the pot, you want to locate your water container in a position that you can hit easily but have no chance of splash back. Being left handed I usually set up a swivel chair with the 5 gallon bucket of water on my left side at waist level. I alway work with two molds!

Pour one mold and set it down on a non conductive surface, you are trying to keep the mold hot, fill the second mold and set it down. Pick up the first one snap off the sprue, keep it seperate or put it back in the pot makes no difference to me, open the mold and drop the bullets into the bucket with just a twist of the swivel chair.

Now close the mold refill and do the same to the other mold etc etc etc .

I have alway put a soft rag of some type in the bottom of the water bucket to help soften hitting bottom.

Something to keep in mind is the type of alloy your using. The higher the antimony content the better the results you'll get from this technique. If your casting 1 in 20 or 16 lead tin only don't waste your time this will get you nothing!

This is why wheel weights work so will with this technique.

Being careful during your setup is the most important thing you can do for safety. I have "quench cast" for over 30 years and the only issue I've ever had was putting very cold ingots into a hot pot of lead. The ingot disappeared under the the surface of the lead and immediately started to "sweat" the resulting "geyser" was small but very memorable!!!

I now always make sure, if I'm casting in cold weather, to bring the ingots up to room temperature before I drop them in the pot!


Hope this helps.

[454PB]

I use a slightly different method, but I'm also a lefty and I stand up to cast. I have my normal setup on the right end of my 8' long casting bench. I keep the water bucket at the far left end, and on a shelf below the top. By the time the sprue is solidified, I've moved to the left end. I open the sprue cutter, then dump the boolits directly into the water. Others use a cloth over the top to minimize splash, I don't. It does splash a little, but not enough to reach the casting pot. I want them in the water as quickly (and as hot) as possible. I may get a little splash on the hot mould, but I just wait until it quits sizzling before moving back to the led pot.

When the session is finished, I dump the water and place the boolits on a towel to dry. I size them within an hour or two. Once the hardening process has begun, sizing resoftens the boolits. They need to be sized as soon as possible.

However, heat treating in any manner is a total waste of time if you have no need for the additional hardness.

[lawboy]

I resemble your paranoia. Here is what I don't do -- water drop bullets while casting.
What I do recommend is purchasing a toaster oven at a second hand store and setting it up in your shop. While you are there get some stainless steel bread pans. AFTER you are done casting, take the bullets and stand them up in a pan. But them into the oven at 500 degress for one hour to 90 minutes depending on how many bullets and how big they are. You just want them to get hot all the way through to a uniform 500 degrees. Then remove the pan and immediately dump it into a bucket of water on the floor. You will have very uniformly heat treated bullets and no risk of a vapor explosion due to getting water into molten lead. My alloy -- range scrap, hardens to 21-2bhn with this technique. Regards.

[Bret4207]

I am not known for being particularly bright, so take this with that in mind. I water drop from the mould. If your mould is hot enough to cast good bullets there is NO WAY any water will remain in the cavity. Any water hittting the top of the melt will boil away before it can do any damage. Any water on the mould, same thing. The only way I can see water being an issueis when you add to the pot. A damp ingot or damp lead could cause a steam based event.

BTW- I don't wear gloves, leather coats or face masks. O often failto wear safety glasses. THAT is stupid, but I find a bit of caution and common sense go a long ways towards preventing accidents.

[Newtire]

I water drop right out of the mould as (like Bret said) the water just steams off in a hurry if any gets on the mould.

I also use the BruceB technique of setting the mould down onto a wet rag when it gets too hot to let the boolits go. I have also dunked the whole mould into the bucket but will not admit that here for fear of being admonished-oops, too late,already hit the "post" button.

Some things that used to seem a little crazy really do work well if done properly I have learned.

Only time I have gotten into trouble is when I slid a damp ingot into the melt, as others here have alredy mentioned. I use a gloved hand with a pair of vise grips securely clamped onto the ingot. I always check the ingots for the possibility of water or maybe even an errant primer (hasn't happened yet!).

My box of sprues get laid into a big Dollar Tree spoon a spoonload at a time and checked for water drops before carefully lowering them into the melt. A visit from the "tinsel fairy" tends to get your attention. I do wear safety glasses myself.

[MT Gianni]

THe plumber rule that I learned was "lead into water never water into lead". Plumbing lead was used to pour into wet aplications such as cast iron hubs to repair or install cast pipe. If it was unsafe to pour lead into water something else would have been done. Keep your pot on a different level, usually above your water and it works fine. Gianni

[DLCTEX]

I have wittnessed a tinsel fairy event at a factory where I once worked. It leaves a permanent impression, so avoiding the visit is vitally important. Having said that, a drop of water landing on the melt just sits on the surface and sizzles away. Bugs falling into the pot do the same. In order to create the explosion the water has to be under the surface. The amount of water can be so small as to be practically invisible due to the expansion ratio of water to super heated steam. I had a very large Oak tree splintered by lightening , the trunk was splinters when I cut it for fire wood. The lightning superheats the moisture in the wood and causes the wood to explode from within. Just my dos centavos. DALE

[Larry Gibson]

The way Bret said;

"I water drop from the mould. If your mould is hot enough to cast good bullets there is NO WAY any water will remain in the cavity. Any water hittting the top of the melt will boil away before it can do any damage. Any water on the mould, same thing. The only way I can see water being an issueis when you add to the pot. A damp ingot or damp lead could cause a steam based event. "

I have my furnace or pot on a low table and sit on a stool while casting. I have one of thes 2-3 gallon cans that popcorn comes in sitting on the floor to my left. Another can of cold water sits on top of that. I wear a heavy glove on the right hand and work the sprue plate by hand. When the sprue hardens I imediately open it with sprue falling on table in front of the pot, turn to the left and drop the bullets out of the mould into the water. I hold the pretty close to the water to lesson splash. Works for me but you just got to be careful and watch what you are doing is all.

Larry Gibson

[Wayne Smith]

Lyman cast iron pot on Coleman two burner camping stove on table. Plastic 5gal pail with water in it to my right on floor. Cast boolit, turn to right, open mold over bucket. Boolit falls into bucket. No way a splash of water will get the two vertical feet and about three horizontal feet to get on top of my melt. Not the splash from the boolits, any way. I haven't fallen in yet.

No point water dropping any alloy that doesn't have arsenic and/or antimony in it, does no good. I water drop ww metal, don't the 20-1 or 30-1 I use for BPCR.

[imashooter2]

I stand to cast and place a 5 gallon bucket of water on top of another to make the bucket mouth waist height. I place the buckets about 135 degrees from the pot and drop directly from the mold. Any water drop has to travel about 5 foot through my body to get into the pot.

[454PB]

AFTER you are done casting, take the bullets and stand them up in a pan. But them into the oven at 500 degress for one hour to 90 minutes depending on how many bullets and how big they are. You just want them to get hot all the way through to a uniform 500 degrees.

I agree that heat treating in this manner is the best and most uniform way to do it, but.....

500 degrees is way to hot, at least with any appreciable amount of antimony.

Wheelweight boolits will slump badly at 500 degrees, and might even melt into a puddle.

I too use a toaster oven, and anything over 400 degrees is getting close to disaster.

[**oneshot**]

I use an old t-shirt with a hole cut in it on top of the water bucket. I place the t-shirt in a funnel shape with the hole in the middle of the bucket. As cast I drop the boolits onto the t-shirt and they roll into the water via the hole. Splash is very minimal if at all.

[dakotashooter2]

MY method

5 or 6 gallon bucket full of cold water
3 or 4 gallon bucket with holes drilled in the bottom
towel with hole in the middle
bungie cord

nest the smaller bucket into larger one, wet the towel and put on the top bucket making a small cone and fasten with the bungie cord. I actually place the buckets on top of something to get them at waist level. My pot also has a "hood over it which also protects it somewhat from splashes. The nice thing about the preforated bucket (seive) is that when you are done you just lift it out, let it drain then dump the bullets onto a dry towel rather than trying to dump the big bucket of water. If you cast in hot weather you can fill the bottom bucket 1/2 full and freeze it before you use it to help keep the water cold.

[mike in co]

I am not known for being particularly bright, so take this with that in mind. I water drop from the mould. If your mould is hot enough to cast good bullets there is NO WAY any water will remain in the cavity. Any water hittting the top of the melt will boil away before it can do any damage. Any water on the mould, same thing. The only way I can see water being an issueis when you add to the pot. A damp ingot or damp lead could cause a steam based event.

BTW- I don't wear gloves, leather coats or face masks. O often failto wear safety glasses. THAT is stupid, but I find a bit of caution and common sense go a long ways towards preventing accidents.

bret....
my one and only tinnsel fairy visit came from this very condition.
i cast standing up, turn 90 degrees to solidify and cut sprue. turn another 90, (180 total) and open mold, drop boolits into a 5 gallon bucket with about 4 1/2 gallons cold water. the boolits will send droplets as high or higher than the mold...above waist high. i closed a mold after dropping, turned and poured.......splatttttt. a single drop of water had hit a cavity. i figured it was steam and history before i could turn....wrong......the lead hit the bottom of my pot(flying up), and spit out to the left...some of it landing on my hand.....

i now open the mold,blow thru the cavities, then close.....no more tinnsel fairy....

mike in co

[bigborefan]

In the picture below, you will see what can happen with a drop of water in the mould after pouring lead from a bottom pour. I have used the drop in water method for years with no problems. As someone else mentioned, any splash in the hot mould normally disipates by the time you pour again. I don't know exactly what happened but when I started pouring the next bullet, I heard a loud pop and the mould jumped open in my hand. Luckily no injury to me but I kept this as a reminder to more carefull when quenching in water.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j65/SSCamaro427/DSC01625.jpg

[Bret4207]

Maybe my ladle pouring habit is part of the issue?

[jameslovesjammie]

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j65/SSCamaro427/DSC01625.jpg

Wow. I wonder what the ballistic coefficient of that bullet is!

[Ricochet]

Like Bret said, no problem with water on the mould if it's properly preheated before you cast. FSSST, it's gone. I have the pot on a counter I stand by, and a bucket of cold water on the floor to drop the boolits in. I've deliberately dropped water drops on the molten metal in the pot to see what would happen. (Believing it would not be much, and wearing goggles and full clothing.) FSST! No splash.

Bummer if you add wet lead to the pot, though! Or stir with a wet spoon!

IMO, if you preheat your mould blocks, keep the water below the mould, and never return wet reject boolits or lead scraps to the pot, there is NO extra risk from water dropping and no need for the special anti-splash precautions some use like towels over the water or ramps to roll the boolits in.

[GP100man]

thats puuuurrrrtttyyy.

i use a towel over the bucket ,dry so the boolit retains as much of its heat when it hits h2o.
i like dakotashooters2 idea of placing a smaller bucket with holes in the bucket of h20.
i learn something evey day!!
alot of my shootin does1nt require hard boolits though.

[jhalcott]

I guess I'm LAZY! I can't think of a USE for these hardened bullets. When a WW bullet will punch thru a deer or ground hog at 1800 fps why do I need harder bullets? I have linotype on hand and mix it with soft lead or WW's to make a 13 to 15/16 BHN alloy. The lino is 21BHN according to my Lee tester.

[Ricochet]

It's easier to cast them and water drop them than to try to drop them on a towel and air cool them without them being damaged in the dropping. They may come out harder than necessary with wheelweights, but I don't have much wheelweight metal. (Now I do have plenty of plus metal, though.) And a properly fitted boolit that's "too hard" isn't likely to suffer in accuracy for it. Slightly "contaminated" soft lead with just a bit of alloy in it will harden up to a nice level comparable to wheelweights. You can do several manipulations of hardness with oven treating later, annealing hardened boolits to soften them, or oven heating and quenching to make sure they're uniformly hardened.

[Blammer]

IF I were to water quench. Here is how I would do it.

Get my 5 gal bucket put cloth in the bottom put about 4" of water in the bottom over the cloth, pour styrofoam peanuts on the top of the water to cover the water surface area. Set the bucket behind me. After pouring, knocking sprue, then I'd turn around and drop boolits right into bucket behind me, turn back around and pour em again.

[imashooter2]

I guess I'm LAZY! I can't think of a USE for these hardened bullets. When a WW bullet will punch thru a deer or ground hog at 1800 fps why do I need harder bullets? I have linotype on hand and mix it with soft lead or WW's to make a 13 to 15/16 BHN alloy. The lino is 21BHN according to my Lee tester.

I water quench most of my boolits BECAUSE I'm lazy. It's faster and easier to water drop than to keep clearing the drop area when air cooling. The only boolits I air cool are in situations where hard doesn't work.

[HABCAN]

Bret4207, I cast as you do. Starting that long ago, or even before that as a child casting lead soldiers, who thought of 'safety' and attendant equipment? So, my habits are my habits, extreme caution being foremost.

And Dakotashooter2.......blessings upon you! Never occurred to me to use two buckets, but I just made an 'insider' c/w holes and it will sure be nice not to dunk arthritic hands into cold water from now on!!! (Kanuckistani 4-litre ice cream pail with bail handle just exactly fits the bottom of (3 gallon?) commercial ice cream pail.) I also made holes just under the rim of the 'inner' so that a stick through them set on the 'outer' will keep the 'inner' above water level to drain. A VERY satisfactory arrangement! Thank you!