ohland
07-16-2015, 04:53 PM
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Shotgun Powder in Rifles
By VAN ALLEN LYMAN
Editor's Note:— Neither the Editors or the author recommend the general use of shotgun powders in rifles; the ammunition companies certainly know whereof they speak. This experiment, however, should be of interest to the “special loads" fraternity and so is published for whatever information it may contain.
BEFORE me lies a letter from the Du Pont people. "Generally speaking shotgun powder is entirely too quick burning for use in rifles. In reduced loads an experienced reloader sometimes gets good results with shotgun powder but you should not attempt to use it except for light charges and if it is at all possible to obtain rifle powder we believe you will be better satisfied with the results and in addition you will not have that uncomfortable feeling of wondering what will happen to you and your gun when you pull the trigger.—We have made no tests whatever with shotgun powder in the Springfield or Krag rifles."
After reading this the writer and another incurable gun nut, Leo Johnson, proceeded to demonstrate the old proverb, "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread" by getting a supply of DuPont shotgun smokeless powder, the bulk kind that looks like a sort of patent breakfast food and smells and tastes like celluloid, and doing a bit of experimenting. The results were such a pleasant surprise that it seems worth while recording them for the benefit of the rest of the shooting fraternity.
It is only fair to say in the beginning that these tests might never have been made were it not for the fact that in the particular neck of the woods where the writer then resided, 2000 miles from the United States, shooting material is not easily come by and one learns to make the best use of what he can get and be thankful that he can get that. “Polvera blanca sin humo," (white powder without smoke), in other words DuPont shotgun smokeless was obtainable, likewise a second grade of black powder, and some sizes of metallic cartridges, that was all.
We did have a small supply of DuPont No. 75 and No. 80 rifle powders that the writer had brought down from the States and these gave a basis for comparison.
Understand, this article is not written with a desire to boost DuPont shotgun smokeless as being better for rifles than the regular rifle powders. lt is simply that this is a powder which is very generally sold and easily obtain able. The results that can be gotten from it compare so surprisingly well with No. 75 and No. 80, the most common powders used for reduced loads, that a knowledge of what it can do should be of value to the gun nut who wants miniature and mid-range loads and can get this commonly sold powder but who can not easily get the others which are not so generally used.
As we had no data to go by the loads were determined by experiment. The amount of charge is given both in grains and the setting of the Ideal No. 5 powder measure, this machine being in the possession of nearly every man who reloads to any extent.
To start off with, here is a leaf from Johnson's note-book. “I had long thought of the possibility of using DuPont shotgun smokeless powder for reduced loads and tried it out a few days ago in my Springfield rifle. I used 17 grains of powder (Ideal measure set at 40 DE slides) and the 150-grain service bullet and must say I got excellent results.
My first five shot group at fifty yards measured 3/4 inch which as good as No. 75 will do. This load acts about the same as No. 75, report and recoil being similar and is very clean burning. Same sight setting as for No. 75. I think I will use this powder exclusively when my No. 75 runs out. The DuPont people advise against the use of this powder in rifles but I think it perfectly safe in reduced loads. It works O. K. and the primer shows no evidence of excessive pressure. I would not advise very heavy loads though, imagine pressures would run high."
This success led to further experiments, using lead bullets. Some of the targets were not satisfactory owing to the charge of powder not being properly proportioned to the weight of bullet but the results shown on some of them proved that the powder had the accuracy when the right load was found. For example: Sporting Springfield rifle, Ideal gas check bullet No. 308334 weighing 200 grains. Charge 16 grains Shotgun Smokeless (Ideal measure set 38). A ten shot group at fifty yards measured 1 1/2 inches.
Krag rifle using open sights, the same load as above. A five shot group at fifty yards measured 1 5-8 inches, This load, by the way, fills the shell up to within a short distance of where the restriction of the neck begins and can hardly be called a “light charge". However, the recoil is only about the same as that of 18 grains of No. 80 and the primer shows just an average flattening, no sign whatever of excessive pressure.
Krag rifle, using open sights, Ideal bullet No. 308241, weighing 125 grains, Charge 8 grains Shotgun Smokeless (Ideal measure set 19). A four shot group measured 5-8 inches and a three shot group 3/4 inch, distance fifty yards. These groups can hardly be regarded as a fair test, however, for groups of less than ten shots are not to be relied on. Mention is made of them, however, as they are remarkably small ones for lead bullets and had they both been shot on one target it would have probably meant a seven shot group in less than an inch.
The summing up of the whole matter seems to be that for average shooting with reduced and miniature loads DuPont shotgun smokeless powder will do about as well as No. 75 or No. 80. The other powders may be a little bit more accurate, presumably they ought to be, but if they are not available the shotgun smokeless will serve and serve well. In the Springfield or Krag rifle using either the 125, 150, or 200 grain cast bullets loads can be made from it which can be depended on to hit a mark no larger than a dollar at fifty yards, and if one uses the jacketed service bullet he can get accuracy enough to hit a mark the size of a quarter at this distance. The shooting mentioned here was merely done with a sand bag rest, and some of it even with open sights.
Undoubtedly, with special equipment and loads developed by careful experiment one could do rather better than the foregoing. The best accuracy that could be obtained with this powder w'ould probably be found in loads that vary slightly from those mentioned.
These are merely experimental ones which gave the most satisfactory results out of a number tried and are probably simply in the vicinity of the most accurate charges. The components used by different riflemen vary somewhat, the diameter of rifle barrels differ, and other factors enter into the proposition in such a way that the only way the individual shooter can get the best results is to experiment a little and vary the recommended charges up or down slightly. Generally speaking, for the same amount of “punch" to the bullet, slightly more shotgun powder (by bulk measure, not by weight) will be needed than if No. 80 powder were used.
A word of warning. The DuPont Company advise that this powder is not for rifles, and revolvers, and doubtless they know whereof they speak. The writer has, however, found it perfectly safe to use in both the Krag and the Springfield rifle in charges up to 17 grains (Ideal measure set at 40) and with bullets up to 200 grains in weight. The primers, U. S. Ctg. Co. No. 2 1/2, show no excessive flattening showing that the pressures do not exceed those of the service load. He knows it to be O. K. for these arms but has at present no knowledge of how it might act in other weapons.
Shotgun Powder in Rifles
By VAN ALLEN LYMAN
Editor's Note:— Neither the Editors or the author recommend the general use of shotgun powders in rifles; the ammunition companies certainly know whereof they speak. This experiment, however, should be of interest to the “special loads" fraternity and so is published for whatever information it may contain.
BEFORE me lies a letter from the Du Pont people. "Generally speaking shotgun powder is entirely too quick burning for use in rifles. In reduced loads an experienced reloader sometimes gets good results with shotgun powder but you should not attempt to use it except for light charges and if it is at all possible to obtain rifle powder we believe you will be better satisfied with the results and in addition you will not have that uncomfortable feeling of wondering what will happen to you and your gun when you pull the trigger.—We have made no tests whatever with shotgun powder in the Springfield or Krag rifles."
After reading this the writer and another incurable gun nut, Leo Johnson, proceeded to demonstrate the old proverb, "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread" by getting a supply of DuPont shotgun smokeless powder, the bulk kind that looks like a sort of patent breakfast food and smells and tastes like celluloid, and doing a bit of experimenting. The results were such a pleasant surprise that it seems worth while recording them for the benefit of the rest of the shooting fraternity.
It is only fair to say in the beginning that these tests might never have been made were it not for the fact that in the particular neck of the woods where the writer then resided, 2000 miles from the United States, shooting material is not easily come by and one learns to make the best use of what he can get and be thankful that he can get that. “Polvera blanca sin humo," (white powder without smoke), in other words DuPont shotgun smokeless was obtainable, likewise a second grade of black powder, and some sizes of metallic cartridges, that was all.
We did have a small supply of DuPont No. 75 and No. 80 rifle powders that the writer had brought down from the States and these gave a basis for comparison.
Understand, this article is not written with a desire to boost DuPont shotgun smokeless as being better for rifles than the regular rifle powders. lt is simply that this is a powder which is very generally sold and easily obtain able. The results that can be gotten from it compare so surprisingly well with No. 75 and No. 80, the most common powders used for reduced loads, that a knowledge of what it can do should be of value to the gun nut who wants miniature and mid-range loads and can get this commonly sold powder but who can not easily get the others which are not so generally used.
As we had no data to go by the loads were determined by experiment. The amount of charge is given both in grains and the setting of the Ideal No. 5 powder measure, this machine being in the possession of nearly every man who reloads to any extent.
To start off with, here is a leaf from Johnson's note-book. “I had long thought of the possibility of using DuPont shotgun smokeless powder for reduced loads and tried it out a few days ago in my Springfield rifle. I used 17 grains of powder (Ideal measure set at 40 DE slides) and the 150-grain service bullet and must say I got excellent results.
My first five shot group at fifty yards measured 3/4 inch which as good as No. 75 will do. This load acts about the same as No. 75, report and recoil being similar and is very clean burning. Same sight setting as for No. 75. I think I will use this powder exclusively when my No. 75 runs out. The DuPont people advise against the use of this powder in rifles but I think it perfectly safe in reduced loads. It works O. K. and the primer shows no evidence of excessive pressure. I would not advise very heavy loads though, imagine pressures would run high."
This success led to further experiments, using lead bullets. Some of the targets were not satisfactory owing to the charge of powder not being properly proportioned to the weight of bullet but the results shown on some of them proved that the powder had the accuracy when the right load was found. For example: Sporting Springfield rifle, Ideal gas check bullet No. 308334 weighing 200 grains. Charge 16 grains Shotgun Smokeless (Ideal measure set 38). A ten shot group at fifty yards measured 1 1/2 inches.
Krag rifle using open sights, the same load as above. A five shot group at fifty yards measured 1 5-8 inches, This load, by the way, fills the shell up to within a short distance of where the restriction of the neck begins and can hardly be called a “light charge". However, the recoil is only about the same as that of 18 grains of No. 80 and the primer shows just an average flattening, no sign whatever of excessive pressure.
Krag rifle, using open sights, Ideal bullet No. 308241, weighing 125 grains, Charge 8 grains Shotgun Smokeless (Ideal measure set 19). A four shot group measured 5-8 inches and a three shot group 3/4 inch, distance fifty yards. These groups can hardly be regarded as a fair test, however, for groups of less than ten shots are not to be relied on. Mention is made of them, however, as they are remarkably small ones for lead bullets and had they both been shot on one target it would have probably meant a seven shot group in less than an inch.
The summing up of the whole matter seems to be that for average shooting with reduced and miniature loads DuPont shotgun smokeless powder will do about as well as No. 75 or No. 80. The other powders may be a little bit more accurate, presumably they ought to be, but if they are not available the shotgun smokeless will serve and serve well. In the Springfield or Krag rifle using either the 125, 150, or 200 grain cast bullets loads can be made from it which can be depended on to hit a mark no larger than a dollar at fifty yards, and if one uses the jacketed service bullet he can get accuracy enough to hit a mark the size of a quarter at this distance. The shooting mentioned here was merely done with a sand bag rest, and some of it even with open sights.
Undoubtedly, with special equipment and loads developed by careful experiment one could do rather better than the foregoing. The best accuracy that could be obtained with this powder w'ould probably be found in loads that vary slightly from those mentioned.
These are merely experimental ones which gave the most satisfactory results out of a number tried and are probably simply in the vicinity of the most accurate charges. The components used by different riflemen vary somewhat, the diameter of rifle barrels differ, and other factors enter into the proposition in such a way that the only way the individual shooter can get the best results is to experiment a little and vary the recommended charges up or down slightly. Generally speaking, for the same amount of “punch" to the bullet, slightly more shotgun powder (by bulk measure, not by weight) will be needed than if No. 80 powder were used.
A word of warning. The DuPont Company advise that this powder is not for rifles, and revolvers, and doubtless they know whereof they speak. The writer has, however, found it perfectly safe to use in both the Krag and the Springfield rifle in charges up to 17 grains (Ideal measure set at 40) and with bullets up to 200 grains in weight. The primers, U. S. Ctg. Co. No. 2 1/2, show no excessive flattening showing that the pressures do not exceed those of the service load. He knows it to be O. K. for these arms but has at present no knowledge of how it might act in other weapons.