Question about hardness testing - right after casting

[RegisG]

I have various lots of lead/lead alloys (5-20lbs each). When I smelt them, I'd like to know the hardness of the ingots and mark them. I'm thinking that if I take a dipper and make a sample to test hardness as soon as it cools I should get a good idea of the alloy and be able to make some changes. I've read enough to know that it will harden over time or if I water quench but, would it be a meaningful test?
Or, should I just smelt all the lots and then later re-melt and wait a week before testing?

Appreciate any tips along this line.

Regis

[bangerjim]

I do big batches and only mark my ingots by type (COWW/ HB/PURE/etc) after casting.

Different alloys will increase in hardness 3-5 clicks in a week or so. I see it all the time when casting boolits. I always fill my casting pot B4 shutting down and draw of a ½# ingot, air cool it, date it, and hardness test it. Then a few days later test it again and update the hardness number written on it. That way I know what is in the pot when I cast again.


But you will see in increase in hardness after a week or so......depending on your alloy.

Just do not get lost in the weeds on this hardness thing! Fit is king today, not hardness. And PC'ing your boolits lets you shoot softer lead and save your hard alloy supply.

banger

[RogerDat]

Ingots from big batches will be more consistent than small ones. Assuming you have enough material of a similar nature or composition to make larger batches a reasonable choice.

One can sort them roughly by plain lead, tin alloys, COWW's, SOWW's, printers lead, and maybe any especially rich alloys.
With all of those except printers lead if coming from small batches of scrap it will be more consistent in larger batches. Until you are making an actual bullet casting alloy not much point to hardness test. Banger is checking his from in the casting pot. Not the raw materials, which will change as soon as you throw something else in with them.

It makes sense to care what percentage of tin is in the big batch of scrap solder. Not how hard it is. Or roof flashing vs. x-ray wall liner both plain or close to it. Roof flashing may be a touch different but you don't care about the difference in hardness of 1 BHN because as soon as you throw it into a pot 50/50 with WW's and some solder it becomes meaningless. And whatever those WW ingots age harden to doesn't matter either unless you going to cast with just that alloy, soon as you throw some solder or pewter or plain or linotype or... into the mix it becomes a different alloy with different age hardening, water quenching characteristics. I have some "plain" that guns out to 0.5% Sn content, harder than plain by a tiny amount. Won't matter much as 15# in a 40# pot.

[RegisG]

I haven't been able to find anywhere to get my ingots x-rayed so, I am limited to weight, color, and hardness to try to know the alloy. I only have one bucket of COWW(old) and the rest is misc lead alloys from local scrap yard . I did buy 20# linotype online and have few pounds of Sn. It looks like I will be able to get many many of pounds of Pb locally as I need it and of course that would cost a lot less than shipping know alloys here. My need is probably less than 100lbs per year so purchasing online is possible but....

I will take you suggestions and just smelt and keep "like" kinds together. I will still end up having to decide which lots to use as is or mix-in some hardening or fill-out Sn.


Thanks,
Regis

[lightman]

I do like Banger. I smelt in large batches. My set-up will do about 400#. Knowing the hardness is helpful, but somewhat over rated. It changes. Hardness helps you guess at the content, but its still a guess. I keep my supply sorted by type. Sheet lead, plumbing lead, roofing lead/jacks, and stick-on wheelweights get labeled as soft and melted together, unless some of it has soldered joints. Isotope lead stays as its own batch. Clip on wheelweights are a batch,as are the different type metals. Cable sheathing and splices also stays together, although its soft.

Clip on weights have been good to me. They have been easy to find for free or cheap, and make good boolits. You can add a little tin if you want to, maybe 1 or 2%. My wheelweights are also a dumping ground for the odd stuff that is not classified as something else. 15 pounds of odd stuff mixed in 350# of wheelweights does not change anything very much. I think Roger said it pretty well in his post.

If you are just starting out, you may want to separate your stuff like I do until you get more of it. Someone said "once you mix the Jack in the Coke its done". Your wheelweights will make good pistol boolits as is or with a little tin added. Your soft stuff can be saved for black powder or you can add maybe 10% type metal to it for a good alloy. At some point in time you can add the odds and ends to something else like I do.

Something else to consider it how to ID them later. Think about this before you gather so much that you will never get caught up, like I did! Oh well, maybe this winter after hunting season is over! I had a thread awhile back about stamping my ingots with metal stamps. You should be able to find it. Lots of good ideas posted on it! Sorry for rambling so much, Good Luck!

[bangerjim]

MARKING INGOTS


Get a set of those cheeeeeep letter stamps from HF......whatever size your eyes need!

Develop a 1 or 2 letter code you will REMEMBER! Hold and stamp both letters at the same time with a heavy hammer.

Easy to process hundreds of ingots fast. And it is permanent, unlike black markers.

banger

[RegisG]

I already have a set of stamps and will begin this process. For now I think that I will divide my current supply into The following:
- Purchased known ingots (Lyman #2)
- Linotype
- Pure lead
- COWW (don't have a source but do have a quantity)
- Mix together my remaining miscellaneous pieces that I can not determine alloy contents.
I think that I will keep the Sn pewter in whole pieces so I can just cut off strips to add when I need fill out.

Thanks,
Regis


MARKING INGOTS


Get a set of those cheeeeeep letter stamps from HF......whatever size your eyes need!

Develop a 1 or 2 letter code you will REMEMBER! Hold and stamp both letters at the same time with a heavy hammer.

Easy to process hundreds of ingots fast. And it is permanent, unlike black markers.

banger

[lightman]

Thats sounds like a good workable plan.