How long should it take?

[wheelgunner]

No funny comments now!lol

After "smelting" for years in 2 lee pots used only for "smelting" I tried the turkey fryer with a cast iron pot. I started out with a fairly full pot (range lead) then realized I was just expecting too much and emptied the pot down to about 1/2" all across the bottom. After about 45 min to an hour all I had wa a puddle 1/8 inch deep and 4 inches in diameter. I tried mixing some small chunks into the puddle bt it froze up along the edges and took another 20 min to reliquify.

Is my turkey fryer not strong (hot) enough (bought new at Dicks last week)?

Is the cool (50's) temp effecting the melt time.

Or should it just take this long and I'm expecting too much?

[powderburnerr]

sounds like your burner isnt big enough , your pot is too big or the temp is too cool outside or the wind i blowing . all of which determine the out come of the smelting process... Dean

[compass will]

I have only done this one time, but I started with around 4" of stickon wheel weights in a 14qt pot over a turkey fryer. It started smoking within 10 minutes. I turned up the burner. After 15 I lit the pot to stop the smoke from all the tape on the wheel weights. fire went out and all weights melted within the next 5 minutes as the temp started to climb. Quickly skimmed off the zinc weights as the temps shot up (burner was to high). I turned down gas and temp dropped after hitting around 850 (Lucky I got the zinc out first!) Kept pot at around 650 while I adding 6" pieces of lead pipe I had laying around, i could fit 2 pieces into the pot at a time, every 2 minutes I could add 2 more. Now my 14 quart pot is 3/4 full. I stirred with wood stick, then threw in some motor oil, stir again, skim off junk, start to ladle lead into 24 cup cake molds. Tried to knock out first 12, molds came apart, managed to get around 6 out, refilled those molds. Turned off burner checked watch, it was 1 hour. (just in time for wife to call "its time to leave for Easter dinner".

After I get new cast molds, I will start again on the 3 buckets of clip on wheel weights I have. If MidwayUSA would ever get the Lee pot and boolet mold I want back in stock I will order it, but at this rate I think I am going to have to by a box of 250 boolets to hold me over. I have enough .45's left for 1 match on April 12th.

PS: It was windy, and around 40 degrees. I propped up a piece of plywood to block the wind on the burner.

[targetshootr]

Takes mine about an 3/4 to one hour to become full of molten goodness.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/IM005135.jpg

[Salmon-boy]

Ok, if you're really up for becoming edumacated, pick up a copy of "Build an Oil Fired Tilting Furnace (The Small foundry series)" by Steve Chastain.

If I remember correctly, at it's best mixture, Propane burns in air at approximatly 3600 deg F. Your average propane torch will be somewhat less at around 3000 degrees. Hot enough to melt lead by far. You can burn huge amounts of propane to melt 100 pounds of lead. Or you can burn just enough to get it liquid.

Fortunatly, it's not just about how many BTUs you put into something to get it to melt, it's also about how efficient you are at doing it. Insulation will help make sure what BTUs you throw at it will get there. The most simple method of this is a simple sheet metal shroud.

When I'm building furnaces to melt aluminum and copper, I try to get the best insulation value I can into the design up front. One of my furnaces will get aluminum to a bright red temp, but can't quite get copper to a liquid state. After doing the math, I realized that I was pumping almost 300,000 BTUs per hour into this puppy which should have been more than enough to melt 5 lbs of copper. I had huge holes where the lid met the furnace. Radiant heat loss was killing me. Essentially, this is what's happening to you with the lead.

If you check out any of the sand casting sites on the 'net - www.backyardmetalcasting.com is a good quick introduction - you can see ideas that have been used to melt at hotter temps.

Radiant heat comes off the surface of the lead, as well as the sides of the pot you're melting it in. Also with turkey fryers, you're using something that was designed for a different purpose. The flame is a bit far away from where you want the heat.

Luckily, with Lead, the temps needed allow you to use a sheetmetal shroud, or even better yet, compressed fiberglass dome for insulation. Even a simple cover on the pot will help!

[MT Gianni]

How many btu's is the burner rated at? Gianni

[calsite]

I smelted for the first time using a T. fryer recently as well, used a old 4 quart cast iron pot. seemed like pot was too small for the burner so I placed 1/4" thick pieces of aluminum plate ontop of the burner and then the pot. Can you guess what happened in about ten minutes? Yep, blobs of molten aluminum started landing on the floor. I eventually smelted, but it took quite a while to melt everything, add smaller amounts at a time at first.

[compass will]

Takes mine about an 3/4 to one hour to become full of molten goodness.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/IM005135.jpg

Targetshootr, you are using the same muffin pans that I failed with. What's the trick? I ended up having to peal the pan off the lead with a pair of pliers. the lead was "soldered" to the muffin pan on the bottoms.

[Bret4207]

Wow, I guess I'll stick to my plumbers furnace. I fill a dutc oven to over flowing with WW and it's melted in less than 15 minutes. Of course that does have a solid blue flame 3" across and 4 foot high shooting out of it!

As for the muffing pans- I went through 2 or 3 types. I ended up buying a coated pan and I set the pan in snow or a wet spot . The ingots flip right out when I turn it over. If you get the really cheap pans the lead seems heavy enough to distort the cavity or something because they always stick. Maybe some graphite would help?

[Newtire]

Bret has it right, the graphite contaminates the metal so the lead won't stick but if those pans get twisted and bent up with any nooks or crannies, it's easy for the lead to get stuck in them.

I don't know if gasoline burns hotter but it doesn't take long to get a potful of lead weights heated up & melted down using a gasoline coleman. Just have to use a small pot or the grill caves in too easy.

I went to make some Lee R.E.A.L. muzzleloader slugs about a month ago for a guy & the pure lead took forever to melt compared to the alloyed clip-on wheelweights it seemed.

[JSnover]

WheelGunner,
My Coleman 450 puts out 14,000 btu. My pot is homemade, about 5" square x 4" deep, 5/16" thick, welded steel with half the top covered to retain heat. It's a heavy pot with about a ten lb capacity.
Running the burner wide open with the windscreens in place, it can take 30-45 minutes to get the melt started but after that it goes like gangbusters. By the time my aluminum Lyman mold is cool enough to drop ingots, the pot is refilled and just about hot enough to flux, skim and pour another round.
Don't be shy about using more flame. After the pot is good and hot you can either turn it down a bit or speed up your process.
I beleive my burner is still a little small for the job (seems to take a lot of fuel to get it done) but it was bought and paid for years ago.

[MT Gianni]

35,000 btu is a good start for a burner. Make sure that your reg gives you a mild roaring noise on full. Mine melts a bout 40-50 lbs in 45 minutes from a cold start, 20-25 with 1-2" of melted alloy in the bottom. Gianni

[targetshootr]

Targetshootr, you are using the same muffin pans.Mine aren't coated but they do stick sometimes when they get bent or lead is sloshed around the top. One sheet had a lip at the top of the muffin so now it's in the scrap pile.

[compass will]

Sorry to steal the thread and turn it into muffin pans. Mine were not stuck on the side, plus the sides were tapered. I did not fill them all the way up either. the lead was soldered to the bottom of the pan. Maybe sitting them in a tray of water would stop the pan from getting hot enough to allow the lead to solder itself to the pan. they are cheep enough, might be worth another try.

[wheelgunner]

Thanks for all the input. I've investigated turkey fryer burners and it appears the BTU rating co-incides with the gas pressure somewhat. Mine has a 5 psi regulator which seems to be the smallest output available. Larger burners available seem to use 10 psi and even 20 psi regulators with several companies offering adjustable regulators. I'm going to order a new burner (states approx 150 - 180,000 btu) and an adjustable regulator. Hopefuuly this will solve my problem. Thanks again for all of your help!

[jdhenry]

When I smelted a couple of weeks ago I was able to smelt 243#'s In less than an hour. I had A bunch of 3" thick x 12" wide circles that I hadn't been able to melt last year, on my turkey fryer.


This time I used my turkey fryer and a weed burning torch to heat from the top. It took all of 10 min to get my cast iron pot full of melted lead.

That same amount with just my turkey fryer took about 6 hours last year.

[pdawg_shooter]

I built my burner myself, uses propane and compressed air from my shop compressor. I can melt 20lbs of wheel weights in just about 20 minutes. Works kind of like a small forge.

[KCSO]

I set my muffin pans on the grass in the yard and the dampness in the grass cols the lead quick and no sticking. A piece of damp, not wet carpet woks also.

[Leftoverdj]

You can probably get away with just a new regulator. The burners seem to be pretty standard. I can melt a full bucket of WW in just over an hour with any of my burners. Had to replace a few regulators over the years and 10-15 psi sounds about right.

I gave up on the lightweight muffin tins decades ago. Cornstick moulds work great for my basic alloy and I have acquired cast iron muffin moulds so I can ingot lead as rounds and lino as fluted.

[targetshootr]

I also fill up the Pro-Melt while I'm at it. It takes care of about 20 lbs and it's ready to go the next time I want to cast.

[GLL]

This high pressure Camp Chef puts out 60,000BTU ! I can smelt 100 pounds of wheel weights in the larger "pot" (on the left) in about 30-35 minutes as long as there is no wind.

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/884739BFB73F683/standard.jpg

[OeldeWolf]

Last fall I borrowed a used turkey fryer burner from a friend, and smelted down a lot of range scrap. It went pretty quickly, and I smelted probably 25 or 30 gallons oif scrap (though there were a few huge chunks as well) in two short sessions, and used considerably less than a tank of propane.

I also smelted a partial bucket of wheel weights. And a partial bucket of scrap solder. Whichj I mentioned in a previous post.

I used 12in cast iron dutch ovens from Harbor Freight. I used the lids, as I had read about that on this site. But I also had this all set up in an enclosure I made from loose bricks that were here when I bought my house.

Here is a link to the pic on photo bucket. The original is large, and would take up a lot of room.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee103/OeldeWolf/100_0547.jpg

The wheel weights went a lot quicker than the range scrap, as they were denser and in better contact with the pot.

With the range scrap, it took half an hour to 45 minutes to get a puddle on the bottom. After I got the melting started and had half an inch or so in the bottom, it went faster. I would pour on about 4 to 6 inches of scrap, put the lid on, and come back in abiout 15 minutes. Then scrape off about 2 inches of casings and junk, and repeat.

:-D

[warf73]

Mine has a 5 psi regulator which seems to be the smallest output available
I find this interesting that the new T. Fryers come with regulators, mine is older but doen't have a regulator.

[Dale53]

I use a Turkey burner I got from Bass Pro for about $35.00. My lead pot holds 80lbs to the brim (sixty working pounds). It is ready to pour after fifteen minutes (melting wheel weights). I readily process 120 lbs per hour including all fussing and pouring, etc. This all done single handedly.

I block the wind, if any, with either scrap plywood or a large cardboard box opened up. I DON'T let the wood or cardboard get close enough to overheat. The comments about good shielding are right on point.

Dale53

[wheelgunner]

Tried again on a warmer day and shielded the rig from the mild wind with some plywood all to no avail. I've come to the conclusion that my frugality in buying the fryer has left me with too little heat production. I ordered a new burner (rated up to 210,000 BTU, http://www.turkey-fryers-online.com/bg14-turkey-fryer-burner.htm , a higher pressure regulator and orfice. I'll post the results of my next try. Thanks to all for your advice/reponses!