7.7 Arisaka

[Uncle Ji]

Hello people, i'm looking for a load for my 7.7 Arisaka utilizing recently acquired 200 grain hardcast with gas check. Mainlt used for target shooting at range but with an occasinal outing to pop pigs. Your input is appreciated.

[StarMetal]

Being that most all 7.7 Japs are brute strong just use 30-06 data. They say the last ditch rifle are questionable, but I doubt many would try shooting those as the rear sight is very very crude and not adjustable in any way.

Joe

[Uncle Ji]

Aloha Joe, thanks for the response. This Arisaka is my Dad's even though he says it's mine. He's a WWII vet, and was the first American on Japanese soil in the port of Aomori, Japan to accept surrender of Japanese forces there, and also as a American show of force to prevent Soviet invasion of Northern Japan back in Sept. 45. He being an officer got the pick on of litter in surrendered arms so this Arisaka is in excellent shape, but the Mum was ground off. He had a gunsmith in Tokyo clean up the grind marks where the Mum crest was and polish, and reblue so this gun is exceptional minus the Mum. He also has a cavalry saber in great shape aquired at same time. I've reloaded jacket bullets but this the first using cast. I'll post whatever loads work out best.

[beagle]

"Shaka bra!" If you had the bayonet you could spear them pigs.

Still, it ought to be good for popping those island hogs.

I've encountered them on the big island when I was over there in the Army. Darn things would almost come up and eat C rations with you and there's plenty of them there.

Hopefully one of these guys will come up with a load for the japper. I've loaded for one but that was back in the early 60s and time has erased the loads from my memory. I was using .30 jacketed stuff in modified .30/06 cases which the gurus say is a no no anyway and got a lot of keyholes but they were fairly accurate at ranges up to 50 yards and shot all right for a free rifle.

I recall one day we were over at a fellow's place and he had dug a new septic tank hole. I had a tracer round loaded and popped it down in the hole. A few seconds later, we heard something fall in the leaves about 25 yards away and a small fire started in the leaves. The tracer evidently keyholed pretty good as it sure came out of that hole which was mabye 8 feet deep. Made me highly aware of the dangers of tracer ammo even if you have a good backstop.

I think it's worth messing with at any rate./beage


Aloha Joe, thanks for the response. This Arisaka is my Dad's even though he says it's mine. He's a WWII vet, and was the first American on Japanese soil in the port of Aomori, Japan to accept surrender of Japanese forces there, and also as a American show of force to prevent Soviet invasion of Northern Japan back in Sept. 45. He being an officer got the pick on of litter in surrendered arms so this Arisaka is in excellent shape, but the Mum was ground off. He had a gunsmith in Tokyo clean up the grind marks where the Mum crest was and polish, and reblue so this gun is exceptional minus the Mum. He also has a cavalry saber in great shape aquired at same time. I've reloaded jacket bullets but this the first using cast. I'll post whatever loads work out best.

[bruce drake]

Uncle Ji,

THese loads are taking right out of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook (3rd Edition) for 7.7 Japanese. It's a great caliber. I personally have two of these rifles and consider them excellent rifles. I like to cal them my 30 cal Mausers when people ask me what they are. It makes them wonder a bit :twisted:

Now to the loads.

150gr (Lyman 311466) B.C. .250
Powder Starting Grain Velocity Max Grain Velocity
Red Dot 10.0 1331 12.0 1513
700X 9.5 1324 11.5 1466
PB 10.5 1235 13.0 1481
Unique 11.0 1424 15.0 1706
2400 22.0 1615 24.0 1801
IMR-4227 28.0 1838 30.0 1976

200gr (Lyman 311299) B.C. .377
Powder Starting Grain Velocity Max Grain Velocity
Red Dot 10.0 1185 12.0 1316
700X 9.5 1176 11.5 1290
PB 10.5 1166 12.5 1329
Unique 10.0 1223 14.0 1449
2400 21.0 1549 24.0 1763
IMR-4227 28.0 1805 30.0 1923

210gr (Lyman 311284) B.C. .332
Powder Starting Grain Velocity Max Grain Velocity
Red Dot 10.0 1183 12.0 1308
700X 9.5 1123 11.5 1274
PB 10.5 1142 12.5 1268
Unique 10.0 1158 13.0 1438
2400 21.0 1538 24.0 1751
IMR-4227 28.0 1760 30.0 1869


These loads are very good for this rifle. I particularly am partial to the Red Dot loads. If you are serious about making this rifle your cast bullet rifle, I would slug the barrel. I've got one rifle with a barrel that measures .308 while my second rifle measures at .314. Shooting bullets sized to these individual barrels allows both to make 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards very easy for me. Although these rifles are strong as all get out, the Japanese original load kept the pressures to 40,000k, which was equivalent to the 303 Enfield round which was the original basis of the round's design. The Japanese wanted to match the capabilities of the English rifle's Mk7 loading while keeping the ease of loading and feeding that the mauser rimless design offered.

I have one rifle setup as a NRA Match rifle with Redfield sights attached while the other I mounted a scope and bent the bolt for use as a poor man's sporter. Though in your case I would advise to keep your rifle in the same condition you received it and switching to cast loads is a perfect way to preserve your rifle and still get to shoot it on a regular basis. Wonderful rifles if I may repeat my previous statement.

Good shooting,

Bruce Drake

P.S.

I'm really fond of these rifles and their history is quite interesting. If you go to the following website (http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/japanese_markings.html) you can determine exactly where and when your rifle was made by the markings on the receiver.

[StarMetal]

I thnk the Japanese also kept their loading down to cut the recoil down as most their soldiers were of small stature. Yes I know of the Imperial Royal Marines who were literally giants.

If you notice the Jap rifles really aren't heavy either, although their long rifle with bayonet fixed was taller then some of their weilders.

Joe

[Uncle Ji]

Aloha Beage, you must have been stationed at Pohakuloa on the Big Island. I used to live in Kailua-Kona 20+ years ago and drove by Pohakuloa on the way to my favorite pig hunting ground at Laupahoehoe. I knoe the training grounds had ALOT of game pigs, goats, and sheep as well as gamebirds galore. I DO have a bayonet for the Arisaka also in excellent shape. Wish I had the bolt dust cover even the thing was useless (my dad chucked it years ago) it would have kept the gun complete. I have no desire to change anything on this gun keeping it just the way dad wanted it to be. I did try the 30-06 brass approach but had about 50% split cases so quit that but found some new unloaded brass on gunbroker at a real good price so will try loading these. I also he original ball ammo still on the stripper clips but they're way to valuable to shoot. Thank for the input.

Bruce, thank you VERY much for the load info, looks like I need to get more powder those listed I have none off, was hoping for a 4064 load since I have plenty, also 3031. I just ordered a used Lyman cast bullet book last week so look forward to checking into it futher.

Thank you all gentlemen for your input.

[Buckshot]

...........I have a shooting buddy who has 2 Arisakas. He had 2 uncles in the Pacific. One in the Marines and one in the Army. One rifle, a 6.5mm was taken by the Marine uncle from a Son of Nippon who no longer had a use for it (a sniper in a tree story). The Army uncle got a 7.7 right out of an arsenal crate from an ammo dump after Manilla was liberated. Both still display their Mums.

The Marine uncle passed away a couple years ago and his aunt called and asked if he'd like to have a couple rifles, as she didn't know of anyone else who would be interested. One was the 6.5mm, an old Savage Super Sporter 30-06, and the 3rd was a pristine 1903A3 From Ogden Arsenal with Elmer Keith's cartouche.

I too would suggest slugging the barrel and also using moderate 30-06 data as a place to start looking. Of course there is always the 16.0/2400 and 23.0 H4198 loads.

...............Buckshot

[Uncle Ji]

Thanks Buckshot, I forgot I do also have 4198 powder so i'll try your suggested load - 10%. My Dad's Arisaka is in excellent shape but wish it had the mum, and dust cover.

[StarMetal]

Boy Buckshot, that sucks how easily you FALL into free GREAT guns. I'm jealous. How about some pics of that right out of the crate Arisaka, I'd like to see it.

Uncle JI

I wonder why that 06 brass split on you? The only place the 06 brass isn't right is near the web. Once you fired them a few times they fit great. I wonder if your brass was old and brittle or if the chamber is on the large side. Some say you can never get the accuracy out of a 7.7 using 06 brass. Bunk, pure bunk. How's one inch groups at 100 yds with the Hornady 170 gr roundnoses with issue sights? Seen two 7.7's do that, mine and my best friends.

One of the very few things that I DON"T like about the Arisaka's is that you can't put the bolt down holding the trigger back to let the firing pin not cock. The only way to have the firing pin at rest is to dry fire it. The Arisaka has the firing pin disconnect mechanism similar to the old small ring Mausers. This is to insure that the bolt is fully closed before the firing pin can fall. The 98 Mauser uses a chisel edge on the firing pin body a little ways behind the firing pin tip that mates with a female recess in the bolt body for it's safety.

Enjoy that Jap, I think they are such great rifles that I had a custom 260 Remington built off a 6.5 Arisaka action.

Joe

[beagle]

Uncle Ji....Guess I spent maybe 6 months over on the big island. PTA is definitely full of game and I'd sure like to hunt it some day.

We were over there one time and they'd leased part of Parker Ranch for a training area. We were set up in one of those square eucalyptus groves right next to one of the pus and I hauled chow down one night. I fed the troops and the whole comany moved. We had a jeep with bad brakes so I left two mechanics and ran down the convoy to get a new wheel cylinder. Had to chase them all the way back to PTA. Finally got back to my guys about 11:30 and a storm was blowing up. The cows had moved into the trees and these were city boys and were huddled in the jeep scared to death. The pigs had moved in too to clean up the scraps. They were mighty glad to see me and set a world record I think for changing a wheel cylinder and bleeding brakes./beagle


Aloha Beage, you must have been stationed at Pohakuloa on the Big Island. I used to live in Kailua-Kona 20+ years ago and drove by Pohakuloa on the way to my favorite pig hunting ground at Laupahoehoe. I knoe the training grounds had ALOT of game pigs, goats, and sheep as well as gamebirds galore. I DO have a bayonet for the Arisaka also in excellent shape. Wish I had the bolt dust cover even the thing was useless (my dad chucked it years ago) it would have kept the gun complete. I have no desire to change anything on this gun keeping it just the way dad wanted it to be. I did try the 30-06 brass approach but had about 50% split cases so quit that but found some new unloaded brass on gunbroker at a real good price so will try loading these. I also he original ball ammo still on the stripper clips but they're way to valuable to shoot. Thank for the input.

Bruce, thank you VERY much for the load info, looks like I need to get more powder those listed I have none off, was hoping for a 4064 load since I have plenty, also 3031. I just ordered a used Lyman cast bullet book last week so look forward to checking into it futher.

Thank you all gentlemen for your input.

[TCLouis]

The 7.7X58 is listed as 60 grains water capacity and the 30-06 as 69.

I have always had good luck with my 7.7 and the funny coated bullets by scaling the loads accordingly and working up. I bought that last 30 cal
6-holer deal just so I could switch over to cast in the 7.7.
It is great gun and with a bore tight enough to handle .308 coated bullets just fine.

Cast shooting in the gun is just one more of those roundtuits.

[bruce drake]

Here are some scaled down loads from my enfield data. It should help you as well.

IMR4350 38gr 180gr Lead 1900fps
H380 27gr 180gr Lead 1600fps
(Ssh, Jacketed_
(IMR4895 41gr Hornady .312 180gr RN 2399fps)

Bruce

[Buckshot]

........Joe, Wasn't me. Read the post again as it was a shooting buddy.

..............Buckshot