9MM Luger reloads with 158 gr. cast bullets

[DickelDawg]

I decided since I have a .357 bullet mold in 158 gr. FN, that I would load up some 9MM Luger rounds with said bullet. Well....am having a tough time finding any reloading data for 158 gr. 9MM. One I did find is for 4.5 grs. Unique. Only problem is that turns out to be a VERY compressed powder load and I can't get the bullets to stay seated at 1.050". They grow to about 1.100" which doesn't cycle well in my semi-auto. Anybody have a favorite 158 gr. load for 9MM?

[jonp]

Your not finding data for a very good reason as you stated. Do to length issues you will have compressed loads. You might want to rethink any load that you cant find any data on and be very cautious

[NoAngel]

Yes, this can absolutely be done there's no argument there but I warn caution. The 9x19 is very funny about seating depth. Just a few thousandths can make pressures skyrocket. Realestate inside the case is already at a premium and to get a 158g bullet in there and still fit in the magazine, you're going to pushing it in pretty deep. This is not an area to be playing games in.

...but what the heck do I know :veryconfu



Also, leading will most likely be an issue. Getting that bullet in deep enough to fit the magazine pushes the base in deeper than the cartridge is designed for. As the case gets thicker further down, you're gonna be sizing the base of the bullet down making it undersized.

[gpidaho]

I loaded some 147gr hard cast FNs in 9 luger over just 3gr Unique (book data said this was just over starting load and they were loaded to suggested COL) THEY WERE HOT in three different guns. I wouldn't pull the trigger on those 158s if you do somehow get them to chamber! GP

[gwpercle]

I've tried the same exact thing, in my youth, had a Lyman 358156 mould, 155 grain SWC. What I found is the length of the boolit either limits your powder space or exceeds the length that will function in a semi-auto. When deep seated to feed in a Walther P-38 you had to use a small powder charge, have to be careful with compression. The boolit is just too long to properly function, the old WWII P-38 just wouldn't feed them that well, and single loading them and firing gave more recoil than I liked. so we gave up on that.
What did work was my friend's Ruger Blackhawk, he had a 9mm cylinder, now we could seat them out, to not crowd the powder, if it chambered it would fire. The Ruger being a 357 magnum frame had no problem with the load. I don't remember the exact powder charge , but do know we used Unique powder.
Leading wasn't an issue because the boolit had a gas check.

It wasn't a great idea then and probably still isn't.

Gary

[mnewcomb59]

Use absolute caution with what I am about to tell you. I have sucessfully used the Lee 158-rf in 9mm loads. This bullet loaded at 1.07 has more internal case capacity than Lyman data for their 147 #356637. The Lyman data is the absolute deepest seated 147 data that I have come across. I started 20% lower than their starting data, with my shorter bullet loaded to a longer OAL.

Remember, use extreme caution with what I tell you as it is off the books. First of all, you want to lose Unique. Its the right burn range but too bulky and pressures spike exponentially between 90% and 100% case fill. I worked with Power Pistol after seeing truly crazy people on another forum loading 124s up to 1450 fps for "9mm major" and not blowing themselves up. I have also heard tell of that Clark guy putting insane amounts of Power Pistol under 158s. The general concensus is Power Pistol or AA7 are the way to go. You can't get enough in the case and still seat a bullet to blow yourself up, theoretically.

So keep in mind, the Lee bullet is shorter and loaded longer than the following data, giving about 40 thou more case capacity.

Lets look at the Lyman data. #356637 1.058" OAL.

Power Pistol
Start 4.1 grains 939 FPS
Max 4.6 grains 1033 FPS

I started at 3.4 gr. and it worked the slide. Probably still 825 FPS at that low charge weight and you could go even lower.

4.0 (still below the starting load from the Lyman 147 data) is very stiff and felt like all the momentum the springs could take. I would guess 950 fps at 4.0. This is for 1.07'' with the Lee 158-RF.

I would disregard the Lyman 45th edition data for 9mm. 4.5 of Unique would be a bomb waiting to happen in pressure (50k PSI I would guess with a deep seated 158) or mechanical battery of the working parts of the gun. Pull those loads for sure.

Power Pistol is definitely slower in the 9mm case, and I thought the recoil spring was maxing out at 4 grains. The pressure seems safe enough with rounded primers and primer pockets are nice and tight on the reload, but I am not a pressure gun and I wouldn't go any higher.

You need to get a denser powder in that burn range. Power Pistol is great stuff, and gives me a security feeling in margin of error in the tiny and high pressure 9mm case. It is my primary 9mm powder for all my standard stuff.

Oh, and that Lee 158 won't feed in all 9mms, but I have had luck with M&P and Ruger. SD9VE didn't like it.

If you are careful and don't try to push it past 900 fps with a super slow for caliber powder, you can have a 18 round 38 special with faster reloads.

[DickelDawg]

Thanks for the info. You may have saved a catastrophe. I'll pull the Unique rounds.

[tazman]

I have info for Unique from a Lyman 44th manual using a 158 grain no. 358311 boolit loaded to 1.169 which is the max length.
The starting load is listed as 3.5 grains. The max is listed as 4.5 but they got a velocity of over 1000fps. That's waaaay too hot for a 158grain boolit in 9mm.
The 3.5 grain load shows 850fps which is probably about right.
With the boolit you are using, I would bet you have it seated deeper just to get it to function through the action. That would mean you need to start even lower.
Definitely ditch the 4.5 grain loads.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I will echo the points made about seating depth and pressure in the 9mm. If nothing else there is also the consideration of "battering" the gun. 147 grain is one thing, but 158 grain is another. May work in a number of modern 9mm autos, but not a good idea in any Luger. Those old soldiers were made to work with 120 grain bullets and 147-158 is too much for them. LLS

[JimP.]

unique 4.0 grs speer .358 round nosed lead swaged bullet, i set up my bullet seater with a military 124 gr fmj round. then seat the 158 gr rnl bullets...works just fine, in my glock 19....

[bruce drake]

I load 147 as the heaviest in my 9mm Lugers. If you had a 38 Super, you could load that 158gr RN with a decent loading.

[rsrocket1]

I thought about that too when I started loading for 9mm. Thought better of it and did not try the 158g route. Instead, I've been going the other way which is to use 124g 9mm bullets for 38/357. My Lee TL356-124-2R drops at 0.358" and with powder coating, they are 0.360". I load them unsized and they shoot great in 38 cases when crimped at the first TL groove. In .357, I have to seat them to where they are crimped on the top ledge of the bullet. The boolits are fat enough to where there is little risk of set back and since these are going into a revolver and not a slide slamming auto, there is even less chance (make that zero). The round nose makes loading into the revolver easier than with the 358-158-RF bullets I usually shoot.

Plus when I use a full load of Power Pistol, I can make these light bullets scream out of the gun :)

[Outpost75]

When loading heavy bullets subsonic for suppressed nines it is important to have a bullet with long nose of proper profile to give normal hardball overall length while having a short cylindrical shank, so that seating depth inside the case does not exceed that of ordinary 123-grain FMJ hardball. Deep seating bullets in the 9mm is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS because an increased seating depth of only 0.030" with M882 NATO service ammunition will increase MAP to exceed PROOF levels!

The Accurate 36-155D was designed for use in suppressed 9mms and provides a velocity of 870 fps from the M9 and M93R Beretta pistols with 3 grains of Bullseye when seated to 1.115"-1.125"

[tazman]

NOE recently released a heavyweight boolit designed for 9mm. http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=1907&osCsid=b3lj07evu1342m928v6kimle06

I and other on this site are using this boolit with excellent results. It is available as a flat nose or with hollow point pins. Rated at 155 grains as a flat point and 147 grains as a hollow point.
This is the link to the thread. The target results are mostly on page 3. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?278539-Elco-tc-hp

[mac266]

You can get a Lee mould for 9 mm that is quite a bit lighter for $20. I'd keep the 158 grain loads for your .357 and .38 loads.

[ioon44]

I loaded 155gr to 158gr boolits in 9mm in the 1990's, it was reloading under stress. 147gr is as heavy as I would load.