32/20 ammo for 110yr old S&W

[murf205]

I just bought a 32/20 Hand /Ejector S&W at the gun show in Birmingham this last weekend and the timing and lock-up are tight as I have ever seen. The bore and cylinders are in good shape too. The guy I bought it from threw in a box of W-W ammo that says "32/20 Rifle" on the end flap. I know that at the turn of the last century and before, having a rifle and a handgun in the same caliber was a good idea when you were in small towns and remote areas where the selection of ammo was sparse to say the least, but the 32/20 has been considered obsolete for a revolver for quite some time now and I am not having a very good feeling about stoking my 110 yr old revolver with something that would do harm to it. I don't "think" that S&W heat treated cylinders in 1904 but I'm not sure-----sooooo----I am asking the very knowledgeable members here, are the rifle rounds loaded to a higher pressure that would harm my old Smith?
Murf

[rintinglen]

I would not fire that Rifle ammo in your un-tempered S&W for anything less than a million bucks.
Back in the days of my Grand Father's prime, the 32-20 was loaded to two very distinctly different levels. Pistol loadings, usually lead, were loaded to 16,000 CUP while the jacketed rounds loaded for use in the rifles of the day ran up to 28,000. The Rifle loads were higher pressure than the revolver proof loads.
This was aggravated by the relatively weak revolvers manufactured then, one of which reposes in your hands now. S&W began heat-treating their guns after WW I. IIRC, somewhere around serial number 81,300 for the 32-20's and at around 316,650 for the 38's. Guns made before are distinctly weaker.

However, don't let that deter you from shooting your "new" gun. It will shoot any modern manufacture 32-20 ammunition safely, and while the 32-20 takes a few extra steps to load compared to a straight sided case, you can easily load useful ammo. I like the RCBS 32-98 SWC in mine with 4.5 grains of Unique or 3.3 grains of Bullseye. Mine is a post-war 1919 gun, but I don't hot load it. When you do decide to reload for it, make sure you get a Lee Factory Crimp die. It will pay for itself in cases not ruined, as I can attest.

[murf205]

Well after a bit of research, I found that my H E was made in the mid to late 1930's and does have a heat treated cylinder. The heat treating started at serial #81287 and mine is in the 124xxx range, but the rifle ammo question still bothers me.
Murf

[Harry O]

I cannot tell you if the S&W will bend with 32-20 rifle ammo, but I can tell you from personal experience that a Colt Police Positive Special made in 1931 WILL bend if you shoot 32-20 rifle ammo in it. The yoke/ejector rod assembly will bend. Although the Colt is a little smaller than the S&W, I would NOT take the chance with ruining a good gun.

The lead bullet 32-20 ammo is safe in all guns. In fact, the cartridges made in the 1990's were about 100fps less speedy than identical looking ones made in the 1950's.

[bedbugbilly]

And . . . just remember . . that if you start reloading the 32-20, you could always load them with Black Powder. When the 32-20 was first introduced, it was introduced as a black powder cartridge. I have an old Belgium copy of a Colt SAA that my g-uncle carried when he was a traveling rep. for International Harvester in the 1890's - even have the original holster and cartridge belt. Although the pistol is a nice "keep sake" - it's not a "shooter". He obviously was not a believer in cleaning it well after shooting BP cartridges in it.

And . . . just remember if you do load with BP . . . you need to use a compressed load. It will take some fooling with to do it . . . in order to get the right charge so that the slug compresses when seated . . trickier than a larger straight walled cartridge due to thin neck/caasing.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Regardless of your date research, I still wouldn't fire loads that say "rifle" in your revolver. The caution against doing so has been around for years and years. Some reloading manuals, those that even bother with .32-20 anymore, specify which firearm the loads are for, rifle or pistol, and that's a really good indication that one shouldn't be used in the other. I use 4.0 gr. of Unique under a 115 gr. cast lead flat nose. Happy, happy, happy!:smile:

[Scharfschuetze]

All good advice above thinks I.

Do your have a photo of your new revolver? I really like the old Hand Ejectors and enjoy shooting a similar one to yours. Mine was made in 1908, so it's definitely not up to rifle loads. It's accurate out to a hundred yards on gallon sized milk jugs and shoots to the sights with 115 grain cast boolits.

Here's mine. I have the original grips in storage as these modified target grips help with handling the revolver with double action shooting.

[35remington]

Even the heat treated Smiths are not up to rifle pressures, nor anywhere near.

Do not do it.

[cuzinbruce]

I have to repeat the advice that you not shoot any RIFLE loads in any S&W. I have a couple 32/20 hand ejectors and they are a lot of fun to shoot. Cast bullets and a modest amount of powder. The rifle loads were designed for Win 92 and a few others. Maybe
Remington 25's. It doesn't matter if the cylinder is heat treated or not.

[murf205]

All good advice above thinks I.

Do your have a photo of your new revolver? I really like the old Hand Ejectors and enjoy shooting a similar one to yours. Mine was made in 1908, so it's definitely not up to rifle loads. It's accurate out to a hundred yards on gallon sized milk jugs and shoots to the sights with 115 grain cast boolits.

Here's mine. I have the original grips in storage as these modified target grips help with handling the revolver with double action shooting.

What a great looking Hand Ejector. I'll load some pics when my grandson is not on the left knee:bigsmyl2:. Thanks to all for the advice. After all, there is no need to bust the seams with a 32/20 when there are others at hand if you need more power. Love these old S&W HE's.

[W.R.Buchanan]

There is a good article in the current "Handloader Magazine" Aug 2015 #297
by John Barsness which will answer all your questions about loading this round for rifles and revolvers or both.

It also talks about the relative strengths of the gun you bought.

I highly recommend that you pick up a copy and read it thru.

Randy

[Trinidad Bill]

I use 3.5gr of Unique in my 32-20 hand ejectors, 4.5gr in my 32-20 rifles. The old Lee soup can works great, as does the Lyman mould. I size all my pistol 32-20 boolits, from recommendations on this forum, to .314.

144621

PS I would not shoot the rifle ammo.

[murf205]

Here is my latest H E. She's got a little flecking of the nickel in some spots and wear on the back strap, but the stocks are almost 100% and she's tight as a drum. The box of shells is in excellent shape so it will go into my modest cartridge collection. Heck, for $235 I HAD to buy it.
144629144630

[A pause for the COZ]

Here is my latest H E. She's got a little flecking of the nickel in some spots and wear on the back strap, but the stocks are almost 100% and she's tight as a drum. The box of shells is in excellent shape so it will go into my modest cartridge collection. Heck, for $235 I HAD to buy it.
144629144630

Yea I would have purchased that one too.

As others have stated, I would not shoot those rounds in the revolver.
I do have a 32-20 rifle that I load hotter. Have to take precautions when you have a few 32-20's.
Pretty wide range of capabilities.
I take a colored sharpie and mark the base of the loads.
Green is for all guns, Red is rifle only. Dont want to make a mistake.
I lock up the red marked loads so my Son cant get the itch when I am not home and make a mistake.
I have told him the codes, but he is young and most times just runs around with his head up his butt.

The Lyman cast Bullet manual has separate sections for Rifle and Pistol only loads for the 32-20's.

Here is mine.
Still on the hunt for some as nice as these other guys have.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/101_9597_zpse99e255f.jpg



make sure you get a Lee Factory Crimp die. It will pay for itself in cases not ruined, as I can attest.

Oh yea plus 1 on this comment.

Put in a request at StarLine brass so you will know when they get some 32-20 in stock.
I got 500 last time they had them in.
You can find smaller lots on GunBroker.
I dont recommend buying used brass. Its been real hit and miss for me.
Guys do weird stuff to their 32-20 brass. Neck turning and all kinds of stuff.

[Trinidad Bill]

There is a good article in the current "Handloader Magazine" Aug 2015 #297
by John Barsness which will answer all your questions about loading this round for rifles and revolvers or both.

It also talks about the relative strengths of the gun you bought.

I highly recommend that you pick up a copy and read it thru.

Randy

They just got a new subscriber thanks to you!

[murf205]

They just got a new subscriber thanks to you!
I read the article and noted that John had 2 levels of loads for the rifle and revolver. I've been a subscriber to Handloader and Rifle since the 70's. Best group of gun writers anywhere assembled, and this is in no small part to Dave Scovill who just retired. Dave, if you are here, on behalf of the members here at Cast Boolits, thanks for the knowledge you so unselfishly bestowed on us through the years. I hope you and Roberta have a happy, long and safe retirement. Now"go and pour yourself a hot one".
Murf205

[Outpost75]

It would be useful to have a photo of the cartridge box and headstamp of the cartridges which came with your revolver. No high velocity, rifle only. 32-20s were loaded after about 1950. If your ammo us headstamped W-W. 32-20, it was loaded well after that. If the headstamp says Super-X or Super-Speed or WRA. 32-20HV it is the rifle only load.

[35remington]

In regard to Dave Scovill, I think of him as Albeit Straightly Dave. Longtime readers will get it.

[justashooter]

a survey of various sources indicates that:
a.) black powder ammo was made from 1882 to about 1910 with bullets from 100-115 at about 800-900 fps
b.) semi-smokeless ammo from 1890-1920 at similar velocities
c.) smokeless ammo from about 1900 at similar velocities
d.) rifle only ammo was originated in 1920 or so, and was loaded until about 1965, with velocities up to 1950 fps in 100 grain and up to 2100 in 85 grain jacketed bullets.

I have shot the rifle ammo in a 24" barreled rolling block conversion and it is definitely snappy, so if you have a Winchester 92 or a Remington 25 and find vintage ammo at gun shows for $35-40 per box, snap it up. recent prices on modern cast lead "cowboy" and similar ammo are actually higher. once you get the cases you can reload much more cheaply. my 1915 hand ejector 4th change is too good of a gun to ruin with rifle only ammo.

[murf205]

a survey of various sources indicates that:
a.) black powder ammo was made from 1882 to about 1910 with bullets from 100-115 at about 800-900 fps
b.) semi-smokeless ammo from 1890-1920 at similar velocities
c.) smokeless ammo from about 1900 at similar velocities
d.) rifle only ammo was originated in 1920 or so, and was loaded until about 1965, with velocities up to 1950 fps in 100 grain and up to 2100 in 85 grain jacketed bullets.

I have shot the rifle ammo in a 24" barreled rolling block conversion and it is definitely snappy, so if you have a Winchester 92 or a Remington 25 and find vintage ammo at gun shows for $35-40 per box, snap it up. recent prices on modern cast lead "cowboy" and similar ammo are actually higher. once you get the cases you can reload much more cheaply. my 1915 hand ejector 4th change is too good of a gun to ruin with rifle only ammo.

Amen to that. I don't want to ruin a piece of history either. I pulled the bullet from one of the box pictured above and it had 6.8 grs of ball powder. Might be canister and might not, at any rate, I'm going to load some 100 gr cast Magnus that I have on hand for my 32 Long Hand Ejector with a starting load of Unique and get a baseline. They mic .313 and are a 2 finger push fit in the cylinders, so as soon as my dies come from Midsouth----here we go again. Dontcha' just love a new project!

[cuzinbruce]

If you slug the bore, you will probably find the S&W bore runs runs larger than the .311 often quoted for rifles. At least mine did.

[murf205]

I did and this one is right on the button at .311 as near as I can read the mic.