44cal and IMR4227

[Lefty Red]

I have some 4227 I want to use in my CVA Scout pistol in 44 magnum. I picked up some Lasercraft 200gr RNFP, about three boxes, cheap from a cousin this weekend and want to use them.

I think 4227 works best when at the near max charged or compressed loads, and by that I mean less unburnt granules. I found some 44 special loads that calls for a max charge of 15 grains (published by Lee) in the special case, but I want to run these loads in a magnum case. If I use a bit of filler, would it help? Or just leave it alone?
Lee doesn't show 44 magnum or 44/40 loads with 200 gr bulllets and 4227, only the 44 special.

Using WLP primers and WW brass. Pistol is the CVA Scout V2 single shot with 14" barrel.

I have other powder, 2400 and 296, for hunting rounds. Looking for a mid range softer shooting load to burn up range time and bullets.

Jerry

[1johnlb]

In my experience 4227 is close to 2400 in all regards to pressure but I've not used it in 44 mag. In bottle neck rifle 4227 is temp and position sensitive and a tuff of dacron is needed to keep shots from stringing. I've not seen any warnings about reduced 4227 and SEE, so sure I would think a low charge held back with dacron would work well, as long as it wasn't used as a wad. Sorry I couldn't be more cal specific. I use tightgroup for my reduced 44mag loads.

[Lefty Red]

In 300 AAC BO, 4227 does have allot of sensitively I found out. Wanting to use up the two pounds I have in some range loads. I load it to max in the 38 special, 10 grains published by Lee, and it pushes the 158 SWC nicely into small groups.

Might try to load up some more in the 300 BO at max and maybe a filler and re test as well.

I use 231 for my reduced 44 magnum loads, but just trying to burn up another powder.

Thanks

Jerry

[Outpost75]

I tried some brief experiments with H and IMR 4227 using 200-grain bullets in my .44-40 Marlin rifle with 20" barrel and even when increasing charges past recommended Winchester 92 levels, into starting levels for the .44 Magnum, velocity extreme spreads exceeded 100 fps for 5-shot strings and vertical stringing at 100 yards was over 6 inches.

[frnkeore]

4227 is a excellent powder, used in reduced loads. In 30 years of using it in rifle calibers, I've never found it to be sensitive for temp or postion, when shooting BR. It dosen't need anything to hold it back, it will burn effectively.

I don't doubt outpost75's experiance but, working with the powder charge, up or down can make a big difference, too, as well as primers.

The only way to ring a barrel (or cylnder) is to either put something in the case or in the barrel. Check out Lymans warning on page 43 & 45 of there #4 Cast bullet Manual.

Frank

[tja6435]

296 is way cleaner burning in 44 mag than 4227, in my direct experience. 4227 shoots very well with Mihec's 300gr bullets sized to .432" in my Redhawk, just needs a solid scrubbing when finished.

[RoyEllis]

Lyman cast manual #4 shows IMR 4227 for a 210gr, 21.8gr @ 1017fps start... compressed 25.5gr max load @ 1227fps. Should get ya in the ballpark.

[CJR]

Lefty Red,

Lyman's 46th Edition Reloading Manual lists the following 44 Remington Magnum loads:

200 gr. Jacketed HP, 1.610" OAL

22.8 grs IMR4227 for 1000fps (22,800 C.U.P.) starting load
26.4 grs.IMR4227 for 1261 fps (36,000 C.U.P.) max. load

215 gr. #429215, 1.645" OAL

21.8 grs. IMR4227 for 1017 fps (22,100 C.U.P.) starting load
25.5 grs. IMR4227 for 1227 fps (32,800 C.U.P.) compressed powder,max. load.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

CJR

[bdicki]

Lyman cast manual #3 shows IMR 4227 for a 200gr Linotype (429303), 22gr @ 1038 fps start, compressed 24.5gr max load @ 1201 fps.

[Larry Gibson]

I've always had excellent results with H4227 at 24 gr under the 250+ gr 429421 in revolvers and rifles. That was pretty much 100% load density though. As mentioned Lyman's manuals have long shown loads of IMR 4227 under a 200 gr cast bullet with 24.5 - 25.5 being the max loads listed (200 - 215 gr cast bullets) Should be worth a try.

No filler is needed nor recommended in the 44 Magnum case with 4227 powder as the start loads are still in the 80% load density range and your WLPs will reliably ignite the easily ignitable 4227, especially in the single shot. Only thing is you might find the 4227 might push the 200 gr PB'd cast too fast out of the 14" barrel for decent accuracy. Definitely worth a try in my estimation.

Larry Gibson

[Lefty Red]

Just got back from the range. On finding an acurate light 44 load, 7grs of 231 under a 240 RNFP gave me touching groups at 25 yards and a ten shot string in a 2"x2" post-it-note at 50!

Only load I had made up for the 200gr RNFP Lasercast, that would hit paper, was 6.2 grains of Bulls Eye. Nice groups!

I will try to load up some more 4227 with the recipes above. They are more in the mid range loads, but still easier than the full power loads with 296 I have.

Yes, 296 is my go to for full power hunting loads. I was just trying to use up some 4227. I bought it because a few other owners of these Scout Pistols said it was their powder of choice for the 300 AAC BO. But I have found out that with bullet weights from 110-150, 296 is the stuff my pistol likes. And at near max loads. Going to try more near max loads with the 4227 in both the 300 and 44. Thanks gentleman.

Jerry

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I never found a good load using 4227 in my 44 mag or in my 454 I had some Blue Dot that was on my shelf for a few years that i
decided to try in my 44 mag just for some trigger time and to make my 2400 last a little longer. i was glad that i did

[doc1876]

I am using IMR 4227 in my .44 sp. & .45 LC. They shoot great.13 g. Behind a 200g Keith in the 44-40, 250g Keith in the .44 sp.&.45 LC.

[utahtrapper]

Most all issues with 4227 have to do with lite weight bullets and improper crimp.
A 360 grain slug and light to moderate crimp will work ok.
A 260 grain bullet and lite to moderate crimp will not.
Most do not look at crimping like one looks at bullet weight and powder charge, but it is just as important in load performance.

[bobthenailer]

I have the Saeco #420- 200gr TC and they have been shot through over 15 different 44mag firearms of mine & friends , around 30k loaded in 44 mag cases ,std lp primers and 7.0 of Bullseye or Tightgroup powder @ 980 fps should do 1.5 " or usually better @ 25 yards FTB. another good load @ 1,200 fps is 13.0 gr HS-6 powder
As far as 4227 never tried it in the 44 mag or any straight walled pistol round but I have about a 3/4 full can of H-4227 to use up sometime ?

[nicholst55]

Check with 44Man; he strongly recommends NOT using 4227 in the .44 Mag due to pressure excursions, IIRC.

[Lefty Red]

I never found a good load using 4227 in my 44 mag or in my 454 I had some Blue Dot that was on my shelf for a few years that i
decided to try in my 44 mag just for some trigger time and to make my 2400 last a little longer. i was glad that i did

I like Blue Dot in the 44 and 41! But my supply is low. :(
Jerry

[utahtrapper]

Since Hodgson aquried IMR. 4227 made in Australia they are now the same. Not temp sensitive and burn cleaner.
Picked 8 pounds up loaded 44mag 290 BTB 21 grains 4227 45 colt 280 BTB 19.5 grains 4227. Could not have been happier.
Now the older Canadian made 4227 might be another story. Today's. 4227 I like more than H110, W296 or Alliant 2400

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Now the older Canadian made 4227 might be another story. Today's. 4227 I like more than H110, W296 or Alliant 2400

when did they switch

[utahtrapper]

Delete

[utahtrapper]

Search 4227 on this site there are 2 excellent post about when the purchase ooccurred and only using the Australian plant for 4227 which is Hodgson's. The Older Labeled IMR is Canada.
Search on this site for IMR 4227 vs Hodgson lots of great info. On this site

[utahtrapper]

Search 4227 on this site there are 2 excellent post about when the purchase ooccurred and only using the Australian plant for 4227 which is Hodgson's. The Older Labeled IMR is Canada.
Search on this site for IMR 4227 vs Hodgson lots of great info. On this site

[Le Loup Solitaire]

The old Dupont loading tables listed 23 grains of 4227 as a compressed load for the 44 Mag. It was a (max) performance level load and you knew that when you let it off. I used 17 grains with a H&G #503 (around 255 grains)....that is what was supposedly used by E. Keith as a 44 Special load...I used it in the 44 Mag and it was still pretty stout. That 4227 was the old standard stuff from back in the day. Never had any problem with it of any sort other than a lot of boom and some unburned powder grains. LLS

[Lefty Red]

Not a 200 grain light load, but a compressed load of 22 grains of IMR 4227 under a Laser Casted 240 grain LSWC is liked by my Red Hawk. And low pressure SBD no leading.

[doc1876]

If I remember right, when I talked to Hodgens about the difference between IMR and Hodgens, they said that they were cut different, and they recut the IMR so it would throw in the modern powder measures better, and yes there is a small burn rate difference, but it was not that much that it really differed. Give them a call, they are really great to talk to.

If you have a safety problem or concern - DO NOT EMAIL - CALL US DIRECTLY 7:00am to 5:30pm Central Monday-Thursday : 913-362-9455