Fluxing does nothing

[w30wcf]

but help remove impurities from the melt. So indicated Dennis Marshall, a renowned metallurgist back in the early 1980's.

I had been casting for several years up to that point in time and had always read that one needed to flux somewhat often to keep the different elements mixed together.

Dennis likened it to sugar and water. Once mixed, the sugar does not separate under normal conditions.

Wow! Now that was an interesting factoid! So, I filled a pot with a mix of 50% w.w. / 50% Lino, and did not flux it. I started casting bullets and did not stop until there was only about 2# of alloy left in the pot. :D

Guess what! The bullets weighed the same from start to finish. If there was a separation of the different elements, the bullet weight would have changed but it didn't.

Ever since then, I only flux to clean and do not flux after that and the results have always been the same.... good quality bullets from start to finish....... :D

w30wcf

[HABCAN]

That has also been my experience over decades.

[sqlbullet]

I guess I have never heard it sold that fluxing kept stuff "mixed up". My high school chemistry class taught me that was not needed in a solution.

I think what is happing is some people are confusion the oxidation of the constituent elements out of the solution with the idea of a suspension separating. They are VERY different things.

Lead/tin molecules that are exposed to the air will oxidize. Oxygen is highly reactive and is the reason why a shiny pot of clean lead will turn dingy in just a few moments. That scum on the surface that was part of the lead/tin solution is now tin oxide floating on the top. An OK flux will help remove this dross. But a great flux will facilitate a chemical "reduction" that takes gives the oxygen something it would rather bond to, allowing the tin molecule to re-dissolve into our solution.

An excellent flux will provide a barrier that helps prevent further oxidation:

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_4_Fluxing.htm

[John Boy]

Ever since then, I only flux to clean and do not flux after that and the results have always been the same.... good quality bullets from start to finish......
Ditto, John. But I flux 2 times in the beginning (the 2nd one for good measure)

[bstone5]

Easy way is just to stir with a wooden stick, the burning wood is a flux and the stirring mixes all up.
I do this to make sure all is mixed well and the antimony is evenly distributed in the mix.
Many ways to do, what ever works best for the individual.

[w5pv]

I let home Depot furnish my stick to stir they are pretty moister free.I have used pine and still will but they need to be dry,had an almost tinsel fairy to visit with a stick that hadn't been dried.It made one pretty good size bubble and I jerk it out of the melt don't know if iw would have made a fairy if I had left it in the melt but be careful with the sticks.

[Hardcast416taylor]

To each his own on this topic. Myself, I`ll continue to flux several times during a pot pouring session.Robert

[bangerjim]

Fluxing combines with all the carp in your re-melting pot. That good and needed.

REDUCING is what you want to do in your casting pot. You already have 110% clean/pure ingots.....RIGHT??????? You made them! So fluxing is not needed.

Bees wax in your casting (a pea-sized piece when adding ingots and when the dull gunk forms heavily on the surface) is all you need. It DOES reduce the Sn back in like magic and leaves very little black gunk on top. I do not ever use saw dust or chunky "stuff" in my casting pot because the of the gunk that gets down in the spigot. Used to.......not now!

But the amount of Sn you would loose for oxidization in a casting pot will probably not even show up in you boolits weights, unless you have a scale accurate to 0.0.005gn. ( I have one.) And normal boolit drop weights vary over 2-3gn anyway, so how are you gonna ever see it?!?!?!?

Flux/reduce/or not......totally a personal thing.

banger

[nagantguy]

To Flux or not to Flux that is the question..sorry couldn't help my self. I use mostly s rape lead and range reclaim it dirty and I Flux and skim off any gray dross black sledge, it's part of my tempo, my zen like casting mojo, I was however gifted a large amount of very clean and shiny Lyman #2 alloy and I've cast with some of it without fluxing and my boolit dropped from the molds nice and round and filled out and Shiney and weights where with in my specs, a 1-2.5 grain range. Also I to stopped using saw dust for Flux cause when I used it it seems like I got more "gung" in the bottom of the pot.

[GrayTech]

Fluxing regularly is not required in bottom pour pots. For ladle casting it helps keep the surface clean, specially at higher temps. It merely reduces the oxidized Sn back into the alloy.

The % Sn lost to oxidation depends on the exposed surface area and volume of alloy. The lower the volume, the more % Sn lost to oxidation for a give surface area.

Keep in mind some elements dissolve (true solution) while others are held in suspension (emulsion) and are not dissolved in the technical sense. For this reason stirring is helpful to keep the mix uniform.

[popper]

+1 for graytech.

[twc1964]

I used to flux with pine sawdust in my casting pot but kept getting the nozzle in my 4-20 clogged. After a thorough scrubbing of the pot and a trip to the local gunshow, i started using beeswax as banger has been preaching forever. What do ya know! It worked lol. Thats all i use now...and on a positive note
Beeswax smells way better than candle wax or sawdust.

[MBTcustom]

I like using sawdust when smelting. It's good for clean ingots.
I will not use it when casting. It's bad for bullets (I always get little bits of black dust migrating down to the spout, and it winds up in my bullets.)
For me, it's sawdust outside when smelting (if I deem it nessisary) and small bits of beeswax inside when casting bullets.
I have also noticed an improvement in bullet quality if I keep the nozzle of the bottom pour pot wet with beeswax while casting.

[bangerjim]

I used to flux with pine sawdust in my casting pot but kept getting the nozzle in my 4-20 clogged. After a thorough scrubbing of the pot and a trip to the local gunshow, i started using beeswax as banger has been preaching forever. What do ya know! It worked lol. Thats all i use now...and on a positive note
Beeswax smells way better than candle wax or sawdust.

Like I keep telling my wife..............."I am always right!" So far, after 41 years, she still does not believe me!

HA........ha! :violin:

banger

[JWFilips]

+1 Banger Jim
Flux heavy in the smelt About 3 times to clean everything out: Then when you have clean ingots & drop in your casting pot and then just reduce with beeswax: By then the junk is gone and you just want the tin back into the melt while casting

[LAGS]

I dont know if others have the same issue, but I flux once in a while to get the Scale or stuff that comes off the side of the Pot, especially if I am using an Older pot like my Lyman Big Dipper or a well worn Cast Iron pot.
As the pot or melter heats and cools, it oxidizes to and makes a fine rust that comes off in you melt.
Fluxing the lead, makes that stuff float to the surface and is easily skimmed off.
But I rarely flux to try and keep the alloy Blended.
Fluxing helps seperate the Crud.
Yes, I use a pot and Ladle.
But I cant see why the bottom pour pots would be any different.
The Ladle also sheds rust or scale if I dont bead blast it every so once in a while.

[bangerjim]

The way you get "the crud off the side of the pot" is to scrape it! Either use a paint stick or, as I do, a gasket scraper from the auto store. It is good heavy steel, has flat sides and a nice rubber handle and does an excellent job scraping. Then you just skim the garbage off the top. Fluxing wii NOT remove that baked-on gunk from my pot!

banger

[fredj338]

I've been casting for along while. I've tried it both with & w/o fluxing. I get better fill out fluring. I just use a wooden stick to stir every time I add metal.

[Lloyd Smale]

I flux once at the beginning of a session to mix in any oxidized tin or antimony. Don't see a need for any more. My lead is clean with it goes in the pot and it sure doesn't rain dirt in my shop. I guess I don't understand why some feel the need to introduce something to there melt that doesn't belong there. I think the constant fluxing recommendations came from back when guys dumped dirty lead in there pot and didn't smelt there lead into clean ingots ahead of time. Other then the fact the oxidized **** on top of them melt bothers me in all reality I could skip it all together.

[RogerDat]

I ladle cast (before you throw stones know that I never had a spout leak or clog) By the time I'm casting nothing but good clean ingots are going into the pot (different pot & only used for casting) so no sawdust. I do toss a crumb of wax in to help reduce the tin oxide or any other oxides on the surface, stir pot and skim surface with a wood stick. Any crud that remains after the wax and stick I scoop into a bread pan with tip of slotted spoon. Throw the small amount of crud I skim and scoop out into my next 100 lb. batch of WW's when I smelt them.

Waste not want not, or you could say in house recycling.

I think Lloyd may have it right, if you were doing the whole operation in one pot from WW to cast boolet fluxing more often might make sense. I have heard of folks with bottom pours leaving a layer of burnt sawdust or cat litter covering the surface as an oxygen barrier. Can't say how that works, ladle casting it would just be in the way. ;-)

[LAGS]

I do clean the casting pots with a scraper, and even a pot scrubber.
But unless you can take it back to shiny metal, there is a fine rust patina that does flake off into your alloy.
Fluxing brings that to the surface where you can skim it off.

[GhostHawk]

I'm like RogerDat.

I keep all my scrapings, once I have a pot of clean liquid metal I pretty much just cast until either I need to add ingots or take a swipe with a spoon. The next time I smelt big bars into little ones, wheel weights, downrigger cannonballs, whatever, that frying pan of skimmings goes into the pot. THAT I will flux and more than once.

But in my casting pot, not much fluxing going on, and mostly only a small piece of beeswax or bullet lube (With Beeswax as major part of it.)

[timtheartist]

Most of you agree on beeswax used sparingly in the casting pot. Have you found beeswax or sawdust better when smelting?

[bangerjim]

Most find beeswax is far too expensive to use in the quantities required for re-melting pots. I use 3X sawdust and the final time a few hunks of those cheeeeeep tea lite candles from the $ store.

I have over 20# of beeswax from back when it was $.60/# but only use it in my casting pot in pea-sized pieces.

And remember wax ONLY reduces. You need to FLUX in your re-melting pot to get all the garbage out. Use pine sawdust.

banger

[timtheartist]

Thanks Banger.

I bought several pounds of beeswax cheap on eBay for making boolit lube. Seems there are a number of regular beeswax dealers

Now I hafta find a pine tree. Down here in Florida is that the tree with cocunuts ?

[bangerjim]

Any carbon-based life-form will work for a flux. (some even claim to use old motor oil...YUCK!!!) Everybody (normally) has a saw of some kind and it yields saw dust! Most cut pine. I have pine, alder, mahogany, oak, walnut, cherry and others I cut in my wood shop and, between the saws, thickness planers, jointers, & shapers, I have tons of dust. Wife uses it around her plants (except walnut).

If you are "saw-less", get pine pet bedding as WalMart. Cheap and will last a long time! Do not use the free sawdust from Lowe's or Home Despot, as it can contain nasty woods and glues and resins from the stuff they cut. Free is not always good!

[RogerDat]

^^^ +1 ^^^
Free is not always good. Free sawdust from the big box lumber store can make you sick. Just like free love can give you socially unacceptable medical conditions.
Pine bedding from WalMart or pet stores is the most readily available supply and dirt cheap. Actually cheaper than they sell dirt for now that I think about it. At least by volume.

[timtheartist]

Thanks guys for the sawdust info.

[Electric88]

Thanks guys for all the good information in this thread! I am getting ready to start smelting wheel weights into ingots, and casting after that. I was just thinking to myself this morning that I needed to get on here and see what you guys are saying about fluxing :smile:

[Sticky]

+1 Banger Jim
Flux heavy in the smelt About 3 times to clean everything out: Then when you have clean ingots & drop in your casting pot and then just reduce with beeswax: By then the junk is gone and you just want the tin back into the melt while casting
This has worked very well for me with a bottom pour pot... the beeswax does a great job of reducing in the casting pot and the sawdust works very well in the smelting pot to remove the junk, perhaps a pinch of wax as I am ladling out to the ingot molds if I see any skimming on top.. then back to ladling.

[guncheese]

for those that cant find clean/safe sawdust
ive been using sunflower seed shells
that i have spit out and dried
they work pretty well
and smells like toasty seeds when it burns

[RogerDat]

I'm like RogerDat.

I keep all my scrapings, once I have a pot of clean liquid metal I pretty much just cast until either I need to add ingots or take a swipe with a spoon. The next time I smelt big bars into little ones, wheel weights, downrigger cannonballs, whatever, that frying pan of skimmings goes into the pot. THAT I will flux and more than once.

But in my casting pot, not much fluxing going on, and mostly only a small piece of beeswax or bullet lube (With Beeswax as major part of it.)

I just melted my fluxing skim bucket. The one from smelting yielded about 12 lb. bar from a dutch oven worth of skimmed dross. That was some work for $12 worth of lead. The dross from my casting pot went about 4.5 lbs and I did that in a stainless steel sauce pan. I would have normally just thrown this into a big batch of WW's but I am pretty much caught up on WW's to smelt and don't figure on buying more anytime soon. Not exactly sure what I have but over 1k lb. so not going to buy more anytime soon, maybe in the fall a couple of buckets. For now I just wanted to clean stuff up.

[JRLesan]

Have been casting on and off for forty years or so and, being a plumber by trade, have always used a Bol Wax for fluxing. While they used to cost about 40 cents back in the 70's, they're now up over a dollar. One wax did over 1,000 lbs of WW last JAN as I recollect. The same wax also works great for lubing wood screw threads when driving into hard materials. Just stick the threaded end into the wax and give a twist...

[depoloni]

Big fan of cedar sawdust from cutting trim boards, siding, shakes, you name it. Ever since getting into casting I am a hawk on the sawdust bags on the various saws at the shop anytime we saw a bunch of cedar. As in the guys know it's mine lol.

And yes, they all think I'm more than halfway off my rocker. I don't expect it to make sense to them... nothing beats that smell in my smelter, and often-times given the stank of what goes into my smelter, I deserve a little return-on-smells-nice :bigsmyl2:

[Lloyd Smale]

if you frequent rummage sales you can usualy find huge candles that are either new or a bit used for next to nothing. Ive even found beeswax candles for next to nothing and can either use them for flux or making lube.

[lobowolf761]

I just melted my fluxing skim bucket. The one from smelting yielded about 12 lb. bar from a dutch oven worth of skimmed dross. That was some work for $12 worth of lead. The dross from my casting pot went about 4.5 lbs and I did that in a stainless steel sauce pan. I would have normally just thrown this into a big batch of WW's but I am pretty much caught up on WW's to smelt and don't figure on buying more anytime soon. Not exactly sure what I have but over 1k lb. so not going to buy more anytime soon, maybe in the fall a couple of buckets. For now I just wanted to clean stuff up.
You melted your bucket?

[cajun shooter]

I agree with my friend John Kort aka w30wcf and others who use this type of fluxing. I find no need to use any beeswax or any petroleum material or beeswax candles, old tranny oil and so on. I have been at this since 1970 so you can say that Í have a few years of OJT behind me.
I will first disagree with bangerjim about using pine sawdust as pine contains gums and oils in it that are not good to breath or use. The same goes for the sawdust from Lowe's or Home Depot as they cut treated wood and that material is all mixed in. The breathing of treated wood fumes may kill or severly injure you and anyone else that is close. I saw 5 laborers taken by ambulance from a construction job I was on in the 60's from burning treated wood scraps in a 55 gallon drum to stay warm.
The best wood shavings I have used are those once sold by a board member here for many years. Certain life changes dried that source up. The wood was from certain spruce trees he used for cutting. I also had very good results with the wood shavings that a local wood mill sold to horse owners for stall bedding. I purchased it by the horse trailer full for my horses for about $20 in the early to mid 80's, I sure hated when they closed down.
If you have noticed, I stated wood shavings and not sawdust. There is a huge difference and finding the shavings is worth the hunt. You may want to look at rough cut saw mills in your area that do all types of sizing. I may do a smelt twice if they are a little on the dirty side, like about 500 lbs. I now have that went under in a flood. Completely covered with river silt that is thick and sticky.
I make my ingots up and use them without further fluxing ( excessive and futile ) Take Care David

[RogerDat]

You melted your bucket? The ghost of Jr. High English teacher is haunting me!
I melted the contents of my fluxing skim bucket :-p And took the resulting ingots mentioned in post 32 in to have them gunned for alloy content.

The 12# ingot from a full dutch oven worth of dross bucket contents came in at 2.5 Sb, .9 Sn so essentially COWW's with slightly more tin. This makes sense the tin oxidizes on the top and would concentrate in the dross to some extent. Plus there has been scrap with slightly higher tin content melted down that contributed to that dross.

The smaller 4.5 # ingot made from the dross of my casting alloy mix pot was a richer being 4 Sb, 13 Sn again I would expect that skimming the pot where I'm making Lyman #2 to yield better alloy and for the tin to concentrate in the metal recovered from the dross.

Thought this information might help others decide if they want to hassle with recover from the dross skimming or just dump it. So to clarify 1000# of COWW and some plain & SOWW yielded 12# ingot of essentially COWW lead from melting the contents of my dross bucket. Making bullet alloy the dross is less in volume maybe two bread loaf pans worth and yielded about the same metal as the alloy it came from with elevated tin.

[lobowolf761]

Sounds good to me. I just usually toss my dross because of all the clips and unmelted zinc and iron WW mixed in with it. But I'll be keeping your info the next time I do a big melt.

[303Guy]

Today I had the opportunity to see what 'fluxing' does. It does do something - it causes metallic's to separate from the dross and form small beads of molten metal. I have noticed that even when the dross is a yellow powder (do not breath in the dust from this), adding wax and sawdust yields the same small metal beads. Well, not quite the same small beads - smaller.

[jonp]

I like using sawdust when smelting. It's good for clean ingots.
I will not use it when casting. It's bad for bullets (I always get little bits of black dust migrating down to the spout, and it winds up in my bullets.)
For me, it's sawdust outside when smelting (if I deem it nessisary) and small bits of beeswax inside when casting bullets.
I have also noticed an improvement in bullet quality if I keep the nozzle of the bottom pour pot wet with beeswax while casting.
I do the same. After reading many threads on this sight when starting out that is the method I settled on and it works for me. Pet Bedding on the initial ww or scrap lead and canning wax in the pot. Bought a bag of wood pet shavings for a few bucks year before last and its stil 3/4 full

I also save the dross and remelt it once.

[jonp]

Big fan of cedar sawdust from cutting trim boards, siding, shakes, you name it. Ever since getting into casting I am a hawk on the sawdust bags on the various saws at the shop anytime we saw a bunch of cedar. As in the guys know it's mine lol.

And yes, they all think I'm more than halfway off my rocker. I don't expect it to make sense to them... nothing beats that smell in my smelter, and often-times given the stank of what goes into my smelter, I deserve a little return-on-smells-nice :bigsmyl2:
Wrap some of that cedar up in cheesecloth and put it in your dresser drawers and closets.

[jonp]

I agree with my friend John Kort aka w30wcf and others who use this type of fluxing. I find no need to use any beeswax or any petroleum material or beeswax candles, old tranny oil and so on. I have been at this since 1970 so you can say that Í have a few years of OJT behind me.
I will first disagree with bangerjim about using pine sawdust as pine contains gums and oils in it that are not good to breath or use. The same goes for the sawdust from Lowe's or Home Depot as they cut treated wood and that material is all mixed in. The breathing of treated wood fumes may kill or severly injure you and anyone else that is close. I saw 5 laborers taken by ambulance from a construction job I was on in the 60's from burning treated wood scraps in a 55 gallon drum to stay warm.
The best wood shavings I have used are those once sold by a board member here for many years. Certain life changes dried that source up. The wood was from certain spruce trees he used for cutting. I also had very good results with the wood shavings that a local wood mill sold to horse owners for stall bedding. I purchased it by the horse trailer full for my horses for about $20 in the early to mid 80's, I sure hated when they closed down.
If you have noticed, I stated wood shavings and not sawdust. There is a huge difference and finding the shavings is worth the hunt. You may want to look at rough cut saw mills in your area that do all types of sizing. I may do a smelt twice if they are a little on the dirty side, like about 500 lbs. I now have that went under in a flood. Completely covered with river silt that is thick and sticky.
I make my ingots up and use them without further fluxing ( excessive and futile ) Take Care David
Your going to have to tell me what noxious substance is contained in pine smoke that is dangerous as well as the difference between pine and spruce used as flux. Ive never heard that?

Im not sure its still bad to burn treated wood. The old formula used arsenic and copper which I doubt id want to breath but what about the new stuff

[RogerDat]

Sounds good to me. I just usually toss my dross because of all the clips and unmelted zinc and iron WW mixed in with it. But I'll be keeping your info the next time I do a big melt.

I sort my WW's before smelting. My dross is not everything that comes out of the melt. With WW's I don't start saving "dross" until I'm stirring in the second and third fluxing with sawdust and when I drop in candle wax. The bulk of the totally junk material is already removed. Plain lead such as sheet scrap or oxidized stuff I may just toss the dross from the first flux that contains the bulk of the dirt and debris such as fasteners or tar or drywall & glue.

I use a wire mesh strainer scoop to pull the WW clips out first and dump them in own metal container. Accumulate in 5 gallon bucket once cool. Clips go back to scrap yard for the few cents a pound scrap value. The fryer straining scoop I use is a cheap Wal-Mart version of this one

147245

The initial debris after getting the clips out with that strainer is a bunch of powdered black dirt and ash. Fairly large amount because I put saw dust into the melt layered in with the WW's as I load the pot so that sawdust burns as the lead melts rather than adding that first flux as a separate step. That inch or two of dirt gets sifted by the wire mesh when getting the clips out and is shoveled out with a slotted spoon after I have removed all the clips, the bulk of that gets disposed as trash after cooling in a metal container. It is a pretty finely sifted dirt, ash, debris with very little metal in it to recover.


I keep the "good" dross from big smelting in its own bucket. Separated from the dross created making final casting alloy from ingots of raw WW's. That casting alloy dross is from melting linotype, solder, WW's, and plain lead into final ingots of alloy for casting. Thus much richer dross material with much less "garbage" in it. The 4.5# of lead recovered from that dross was the yield from only three bread loaf pans worth of this richer dross.

The lack of bulky junk (clips) and bulk dirt and ash means the dross kept is more productive and easier to work with to recover the lead from. Different and perfectly effective processes may yield a different dross. Might be less or more lead yield recovered, for more or less hassle. In short YMMV

Edit - If I was still doing WW's in quantity (have enough for now) I would just be throwing much of the richer dross into the next WW melt rather than processing on its own.

[lobowolf761]

I believe I understand now. Thanks for the info.

[303Guy]

Your going to have to tell me what noxious substance is contained in pine smoke that is dangerous

http://burningissues.org/car-www/science/table2.htm

Pine is used to smoke ham in one particular recipe in Europe. I'd prefer to hear from elderly eaters of it before forming an opinion.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/30503774/ns/us_news-environment/t/new-toxins-found-wildfires-burn-pines/#.VdwLN7KqqrM


my friend and i both feel weird 3 days after our pine tree fire in the woods??? crawling skin and achy joints

I personally like the smell of pine burning but I'm not old enough to say its safe.

I prefer to vent the fumes/smoke as best I can. But pine saw dust seems to work great for fluxing, especially if it has some wax added to it.

[303Guy]

I was making up a new batch of alloy and have this jar of stearic acid sitting there. I just had to sprinkle a bit onto the hot dross to see what happens. Would you believe it made the dross curl off the molten metal and left these little beads of alloy! So I tried it on hot copper and dipped that into the melt (pewter) and the copper tinned! Now stearic acid is a wax, the same wax found in lanolin. It even produced little beads of metal when dropped onto the yellow grey dross which is pure lead oxide. It blackens the dross for some time after it has stopped smoking (which is not as strong as candle wax smoke). It seems to affect the surface tension of the alloy.

Stearic acid can be bought online ans isn't too costly either. I'll be using it in boolit lube mostly.

[stillhere]

True, but a good flux, such as sawdust, will also reduce the tin oxide back into the melt. But, yeah, once the alloy is melted, it doesn't separate, although without said flux, there will be some oxidation of the tin, antimony, and to a much lesser degree, the lead.

[Beetmagnet]

Interesting thread. I don't use beeswax anymore. I cast under my shelter, and when used beeswax every bee within a mile came to see what I was up too. My neighbor has 3 beehives, so it was a real problem. I now use bacon grease. I works great with sawdust to Flux when making ingots, and on its own in the melting pot it keeps oxygen away from the alloy. Plus...wait for it...it smells like bacon while I'm casting. Now I just get a bunch of cats coming around to see what's going on.

[MetE]

This is a great, interesting thread. I'm relatively new to the lead casting world, but my day job is playing a metallurgist in a foundry, so reading through all this is just fascinating. Even with the varying opinions, nobody here is wrong, from a theoretical sense. In practice, what works for you is most certainly the right answer. And the practice part is what I'm here to learn...casting lead at home is certainly different than other alloys in an industrial setting. That being said, so far I like sawdust.

[stillhere]

This is a great, interesting thread. I'm relatively new to the lead casting world, but my day job is playing a metallurgist in a foundry, so reading through all this is just fascinating. Even with the varying opinions, nobody here is wrong, from a theoretical sense. In practice, what works for you is most certainly the right answer. And the practice part is what I'm here to learn...casting lead at home is certainly different than other alloys in an industrial setting. That being said, so far I like sawdust.

In my experience, sawdust does it all; it's cheep, it clearly reduces the tin back in to the melt, and it provides a nice boundary against further oxidation. What more could one ask for?

[Nose Dive]

Dust and Wax....Acid and Candles.... Mmmmmm

I smelt alot of ****...****.... found anywhere, range scrap with dirt, ciagrette butts, gum warpers, dirt, clay, copper and...well...You get the idea.

Have access to some plumbers lead from bell and spigot cast pipe that is old sewer runs around here. Yes...I pull over, see the foreman,,,get the gloves, hammer and spike out and get after along side the road. Now adays... they install rubber seals so ...no mas for my grand kids when they dig up the the 'new' sewer. The lead is good and sometimes has the hemp rope used to keep the lead from running all over when they poured this stuff in the 40's. Might be asbestos...who knows... I don't care.... free....good plumbers lead. (Lost a case of beer last Friday at the dig site)...

So...when smelting,,,all is spread on the drive way... sprayed with water to clean the mud, grud and corruption....all metal that is left goes into the smelt pot. Along with...you guessed it... SAWDUST from my old treated fencing slats. It was wolmanized so does have some arsenic. Not much though. So, wet lead and ****, shovel full of sawdust and away we go! Slow low heat.... Smokes like heck and since my neighbor is 1/4 mile away, don't get too many complaints. But...low and slow is the key...boil off water the water....watch the pot pop and spite,,,,stir with long laddle,...face shield and leather apron and gloves.... IT DOES POP.... so...when I get a pot of melted lead and garbage,,,start scrapping dross and trash in another 'save' pot.... If I have some old alloy, I add it now with some more sawdust and stir and scrap..... And, never add 'new' garabage stuff to the pot... very bad idea...don't want to be 'wearing' the smelt. So...now we have a 'clean' pot of lead and all is hot and melted. And, you bet, dump some of the wife's wax in the pot and stir. This means, we have fluxed three times in the pot. And, I am happy with the way the mix pours and makes nice ingots.

So, now it the time to make some boolits. Ingots in the pot...with some wax and no sawdust. If I don't like the way the casting pot looks, I pour out all in the pot and return to the smelt pot and sawdust treatment. I don't have to do this too often, but, if the cast pot is not clean, shows little dross....I think we need more smelting and sawdust. I too don't like to add sawdust to my casting mix. If it ain't good and ready, back to smelting we go.

So, in the casting pot, good clean alloy mixes and wax. Seems to work and provide easy flow alloy and good boolits. And, I am not at all afraide to shovel up three or four shovel fulls of sawdust in the smelt pot. Here is wear I think I need to do the 'cleaning' of the smelt. And always finish it off with wax.

If you pour from the 'poor man's' mix of ****....be patient and flux...flux...flux until you are happy with the smelt. OOOO...forgot to tell you.... Before I wax the smelt,,,, I add about 2 or 3 cups of sulfur powder from the nursery. And LOOK OUT AMIGOS...it smokes and STINKS!!! Mix well and then add your wax. (and i cheat up with the sulfur too...add it with the second sawdusting)...

Nose Dive

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.