Crescent buttplate questions

[stubbicatt]

Have my eye on an old Winchester 45-70 with crescent buttplate. Wondered if those who know can tell me how to place the butt so that I can shoot it more than one time and not get beat to the point of flinching? I'll be using hallowed black of course.

It's unlikely that I would change it out for a shotgun style buttplate.

Is it possible to compete with one in BPCR silhouette?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Stubb

[Pipefitter]

I have a PAST shoulder recoil pad that tames even 3" 12ga slugs, can be worn under a shirt or jacket if you really want to impress someone with your ability to handle hard kicking rifles and shotguns.

[Lead pot]

Stubb.

I would say that it depends on your build. I have shot a crescent butplate most of my life with the 86 Win or a bunch of muzzleloaders as well as my .44-77 Sharps.
This is something you will really have to work out with what you feel comfortable with. Some pocket it between the arm socket and shoulder. This is where I pocket mine because it fits fine here for me. Like a shotgun butplate. But I don't shoot it prone in this position because if you get careless you will draw blood if the sharp plate hits the collar bone.
Above the bicep, not on it, might be the location for you.
Again shooting competition depends on your ability tolerating recoil. You will get it with the crescent as well as a shotgun butplate.
I shoot mine as much as any other rifle with out problems.
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/th_IMG_2409_zpsguk6uk5d.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/IMG_2409_zpsguk6uk5d.jpg.html)

[MT Chambers]

You can also get a leather "lace on" recoil pad that has an old timey look.

[country gent]

Being of small build I have always placed hard kicking rifles in the "pocket" of my shoulder between shoulder and collar bone. Both shot gun and crecsent styles. there just ist hardly any muscle on my collar bone to help cushion the rifles recoil. Im shooting a 45-90 attimes and this works for me. I do have a slip on recoil pad on the rifle also. This makes the buttplate wider also spreading recoil out better. Experiment a little and see whats comfortable for you. You can tell alot just working with the rifle and seeing where its going to pinch or hit hard areas.

[JeffinNZ]

I was told the crescent is supposed to go on the very top of you arm not on the shoulder per se. My Wesson caplock was originally a .50cal and a 370gr Maxi over 80gr of black powder used to knock this skinny boy around something terrible. When I rebarreled I went .40cal!

[stubbicatt]

Thanks fellas. I've read as much as I can with google searches on this topic. Near as I can tell, one sort of centers the buttplate up on the ball of muscle that surrounds the shoulder joint, and turns maybe 45 to 75 degrees to the target, brings the rifle across his body to the support hand, raises his firing hand elbow to elevate the sights to his eyes, and has a pretty solid standing position to shoot from. OK. I can do that.

I guess where I get flummoxed is in the seating or kneeling position. If I were to shoot off cross sticks, or some similar field rest, how would I set this up? Turn my body to angle to the target and situate the butt the same way, out of the ball of the shoulder? For prone shooting, I really have no idea.

The stock of the rifle I am looking at has a lot of drop, suggesting to me it was intended to be shot standing, and might not be suitable for kneeling or prone at all. I'll have to re-read the BPCR silhouette rules again, but IIRC one has to shoot the rams from prone? It has been a long time since I've done anything like this at all, at least 20 years.

Sorry for the questions, but I sincerely would like to know. I guess in the final analysis, if I cannot shoot this rifle, no matter how much I find it to be desirable, there is no purpose to be served in buying it.

ETA: Where would I look for a butt pad that will properly interface with this crescent buttplate? I suppose that with enough ingenuity I could figure something out, but if someone who has already "invented the wheel" cares to share his design, I could save myself time and money.

[Lead pot]

Trial & error will tell you what will work for you best.

Well back out side and shoot my crescent butplate some more :)
Just shot 21 rounds testing loads :)

[flint45]

I have a rolling block in .45-70 usd to shoot it in buffalo match we had. It has a real curved creasent butt plate started shooting it like I did everything else hurt pretty bad sometimes. ThenI read how the old timers used it on the upper bicep and would let the recoil roll it on there arm, ,tried it. It worked for me been shootin it that way ever since.

[rfd]

kick killer butt recoil pad on my .45-70 roller works purty good for my perpetually ailing shooting shoulder ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iFBNvMkGNI

[Gunlaker]

You don't have to shoot prone at all in silhouette. You can shoot sitting it you like, but it's not as stable a position.

For prone I much prefer a shotgun buttplate. The only prone shooting I do with a curved buttplate is with a .38-55 and a .22LR. But that's just me. I like the curved buttplate for offhand, but not much else. They do work well for some though.

Chris.

[Lead pot]

There used to be a guy posting from Vancouver IS. up in Canada that was a knife maker. He posted a picture showing the results of his purple arm shooting his rifle above the bicep :) That is fine for the Swedish hooked butplate, that is where it should be and it is about the only place it will fit properly. I like my Crescent butplate to be in the pocket where I have a lot more meat for padding and not resting close to bone :)
But like I said, find the place it is most comfortable for you. There is no just one place it has to be.

[John Boy]

You can shoot sitting it you like, but it's not as stable a position.
Don't rule out the sitting position ... sitting cross legged is a stable position.
For Mid and Long Range, my lumars # 3 -5 preclude me shooting prone and use the sitting position exclusively

[country gent]

SItting can be very solid and stable especially off of the sticks. Several small tricks that help alot are getting your elbows down onto your knees if possible. Another is to open your pants so your mid section isnt being pinch or in a bind causing pulses and heartbeats to show up more. If getting down to sitting on the ground ( or getting back up) is a problem then a small stool can be used also. I use a bath tub seat that is adjustable for hieght on all four legs. this allows adjustment not only for hieght but for slope or the firing line if needed. Ounce figgured out sitting can be very usefull

[rfd]

Don't rule out the sitting position ... sitting cross legged is a stable position.
For Mid and Long Range, my lumars # 3 -5 preclude me shooting prone and use the sitting position exclusively

ditto's for me too, jb. i also can't do prone due to lower back injuries and subluxated discs. have learned to do the best i can with sitting.

[Don McDowell]

Are you talking about a real crescent butt plate or are you talking about the military butt? If the military butt then one of the Shooters Friend recoil pads will help a great deal if you can't stand the recoil in sitting position. FWIW whenever shooting sitting with any of the butt plates, I don't use a pad of any sort, only when shooting from prone. The worst part of shooting a rifle with the military butt , or the crescent butt is the drop in the stock, it will make you stretch your neck a good bit to get a good view thru the tang sights.
Either way just inside the ball of your shoulder joint is the place to rest those, just like with a shotgun butt.
Sitting can be an extremely stable position when you get the cross sticks set just right and you rest your elbows on your knees.
There's a fella by the name of Oly Shockley that shoots a good bit of bptr. He shoots sitting and shoots one of those rifles with the military butt, when you see how he places and the scores he shoots, it does give cause to ponder all the common knowledge about how useless that buttplate and the sitting position is...

[Gunlaker]

Don't rule out the sitting position ... sitting cross legged is a stable position.For Mid and Long Range, my lumars # 3 -5 preclude me shooting prone and use the sitting position exclusivelyI agree that you can shoot well sitting. I've seen some pretty good shooting from sitting at times. Given the choice though I'd always go with prone and will until my body won't let me anymore. Chris.

[stubbicatt]

Well, I made an offer on the rifle and it was accepted! I have never owned an original BPCR before, and am pretty excited. I'll pick it up either later today or tomorrow. I'll do my best to snap some photos and post them here.

Not sure whether to be happy or nervous, as being a caretaker of such an historic piece means that I will be nervous every time I handle it. I am anxious to shoot it. I wonder if anybody has any soft lead balls of sufficient diameter to slug the throat and arrive at a bullet diameter that they would be willing to part with? I reckon now comes the slow process of amassing accoutrements such as a mould, etc.

[Gunlaker]

Stubbicatt I have an original 1885 much like you described. It's got a straight grip with a crescent buttplate, and close coupled double set triggers. It started like as a .38-55 but was rebored to .45-70 as some point in the distant past.

For slugging the bore I generally use a soft bullet that I bump up a few thousandths with a mallet first.

I'm sure you will enjoy the rifle.

Chris.

[smokeywolf]

If it doesn't have a "Nickel Steel" barrel you'd be well served to keep velocities down in the neighborhood of original black powder loads. This will also result in a very tolerable recoil coming from that crescent buttplate and being transmitted into your Bursa. I have used 4198, 5744 and Unique to replicate black powder loads in 45-70.

[MBTcustom]

Keep the velocities at gentlemanly levels, and start shooting it. It will turn you black and blue once, or maybe twice, and then you know the rifle. You don't perceive that you are doing anything different, but you just don't get beat up by it anymore. The closest thing I can relate it to, is riding a four wheeler over rough terrain. The first couple times you do it, you hurt for days afterwards, but then, you get the hang of it and you learn to move with the machine and it doesn't hurt you anymore. In fact, you learn to appreciate being able to feel the ground under the four wheeler. It's the same with steel butt plate rifles.
Just a few days ago, I ran about 70 rounds through my 1886 with a steel but plate. The load was RD 350 over 30 grains of 4227 and a Dacron filler (1650FPS). There was a time when that would have been really painful, but I didn't have so much as a red shoulder when I was finished.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I am a smallish bodied person. Have several rifle with those curved body rearangers. I do not shoot them laying down on a bench. I shoot off cross sticks and for well over 30 years I am a much happier shooter. Any heavy thumper I own goes to the sticks. The 375 H&H can be a nasty shoulder wacker and cheek masher. But very survivable on cross sticks.
Or set your bench shooting up so you are sitting straight up. Let your body roll with the recoil.
Mike in Peru

[smokeywolf]

Yep! No leaning forward, pull her in tight and let your upper body rock back with the recoil. When I shoot prone with a rifle that kills on both ends, I put a pad between the buttplate and my shoulder. Only gun I have that has a recoil pad on it is the old Model '97 Winchester Trap Gun.

[stubbicatt]

Ordered up the components today. A Lyman mould, some cases, RCBS "cowboy" dies and shell holder. Bought 1 pound of AA5744 to try out.

Still debating pan lube versus a sizer. I reckon I'll cast a few and see where they measure before making that decision. The sizer sure is convenient, and I have never tried pan lubing. Seems getting the boolits out of the lube cake can be quite the challenge.

[BrentD]

Ordered up the components today. A Lyman mould, some cases, RCBS "cowboy" dies and shell holder. Bought 1 pound of AA5744 to try out.

Still debating pan lube versus a sizer. I reckon I'll cast a few and see where they measure before making that decision. The sizer sure is convenient, and I have never tried pan lubing. Seems getting the boolits out of the lube cake can be quite the challenge.

Actually, they come out of the cake really easy. Just wait for the lube to cool to the point that it starts to shrink away from the sides of the pan. Then it should fall out of the pan nicely and the bullets will push out easily. Goes pretty quickly.