Primer pocket uniforming.

[wallenba]

I'm not really sure where to post this, but here goes. I am having problems seating CCI#41 primers fully in LC brass(5.56). Most of the LC brass have a pocket depth of .105 to .116 (big variance). The CCI #41 cup is .121 or .122 on average. I can use a pocket uniformer and get them to .122, but it takes forever, and I'm concerned about removing that much material. Can I take them down to that safely? And is there a faster better tool for doing so?:-|

And yes, before anyone asks, the pockets have been swaged with a Dillon.

[mold maker]

I am seeing the same. The ID of the pocket varies likewise.
I'm struggling through the last of 4000 now.

[Outpost75]

I use the Whitetail Engineering carbide uniformer with integral depth stop, run in the lathe, under power at 600 rpm and 0.001" feed per revolution, holding the cases in a collet stop. No cutting fluid required.

[GSM]

Sinclair p-pocket uniformer on a cordless drill. Haven't seen any problems.

It will seem like it cuts a lot out.

[wallenba]

Sinclair p-pocket uniformer on a cordless drill. Haven't seen any problems.

It will seem like it cuts a lot out.

I will look into getting one. I'm imagining it will be a bear holding onto the little 5.56 while it's cutting. Mine is a Redding, small and large on opposite ends. Strictly a hand tool.

[r1kk1]

K&M primer pocket uniformer on a cordless drill. I use padded jaw Sears RoboGrip pliers for real small stuff.

take care

r1kk1

[NoAngel]

One of the bigger reasons I gave up on military brass. I chunked the last of it a few months ago. Scrap is a couple bucks towards a box of primers.
Theres SO much PPU and PMC laying around my range it's not even funny.

[Pipefitter]

Another vote for the Sinclair tool in a cordless drill, I have all 3 sizes. Small rifle and pistol, large rifle and large pistol. Yes, it does seem that you are taking a lot of material and it takes time, but it only has to be done once.

[lightman]

I've got a Whitetail tool and a couple of Sinclairs. Both are non-adjustable so you just run them until they quit cutting. It does seem like they are removing a lot of material. A good cordless drill and a plastic bowl are your friend!

[country gent]

Mysinclair carbide tool is adjustable for depth of cut. Simple stop collar with a set screw. One thing to remeber with face cutters is that when the flutes fill with chips they quit cutting and just rub. back out and clear chips often to keep it cutting cleanly. Most uniformers only have face flutes none onsides to sallow chips to clear out. Split a piece of rubber hose down the side to hold cases with. A cheap set of pliers can be modified to hold them also. A couple small blocks of hard wood glued to each jaw. then .020-.030 cardborad shim between them drill appropriate size hole on center this allows the room to grip cases firmly and securely with out crushing.

[four70nitro]

I have used the Sinclair tool with good success for many years - worth the money. I've also found these primer pocket gauging tools to be very useful http://ballistictools.com/store/three-gage-pack

[wallenba]

Well... just got back to this post today. I ordered from K & M, mostly because I use a lot of their products (neck turning). Also, they are a Michigan company and shipping is quick. Price was a smidgen better too. Still have to see what the thickness of the case web will be after removing the material. Best way is to get out the Dremel tool and slice one up.

Now... on to my next problem, why won't my NOE 45 gr .224 RN feed in my Savage 25 22 Hornet... &%#*!!!

[ioon44]

I use the RCBS primer swager on a Rock Chucker with all head stamps of .223 and never have any problems with CCI 41 primers seating.

[wallenba]

I use the RCBS primer swager on a Rock Chucker with all head stamps of .223 and never have any problems with CCI 41 primers seating.


My problem is with 5.56 military Lake City cases, the # 41's are fine with all my .223's, Hornady and converted RP 222 Remington mag cases as well. It's a primer pocket depth problem with the LC's, not a crimp problem. I use a Dillon swager. These cases average in depth of .108" to .112". The CCI #41 cup is .122" tall. The hardened cup of the military primers will not curl up at the bottom when seating. When they bottom out, the only way to seat them below flush is to use so much force, that the primer is flattened out, compromising the anvil.

[wallenba]

On holding the cases while cutting, I found that using my Wilson case holder (not a case gage fella's) wrapped with a fat rubber band for grip, works well.

[wallenba]

144717144718Just finished using the K & M uniformer, works GREAT! Made a cutaway of the case to measure remaining case web material. Had an interesting find. One picture shows a recessed area in the case web around the flash hole. The other shows how the Dillon stop fits it like a glove. It may appear not because the half case has backed away from it during photo taking. (only got two hands). Also the flash hole appears slanted. This obviously is from the swaging. Not knocking my Dillon tool, it may just need tweaking.

Same case both photos, lighting affected color.

For anyone curious about the photo, I took it with my cell phone with one of those cheap loupes they sell at harbor freight, taped over the camera lens. Poor mans macro lens.

[wallenba]

Searched the web for, 'Dillon swager deforms case web'. Found this http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=274417

He has the same problem! But he measured pocket depth before as well as after swaging. The swaging pushed up the web, changing pocket depth!
I did not know I had a problem until after all mine were swaged.

Guess I'll get the reamer for my Wilson trimmer, and just cut the crimp out next time. This is not been a problem with the 7.62 NATO brass.

[wallenba]

More trouble.144736 Notice with this one, that the side of the web has collapsed. Actually bent upward, hard to see. Upload put it sideways, easier to tell when viewed vertically. This one had not been uniformed yet.

Really hard to see in this pic. Thinking of pitching the whole lot now.

[Ken in Iowa]

One of the bigger reasons I gave up on military brass. I chunked the last of it a few months ago. Scrap is a couple bucks towards a box of primers.
Theres SO much PPU and PMC laying around my range it's not even funny.

I gave up on GI brass as well. The cost is attractive but not the work to prep it.

I never tried the 41 primer. Remington 7 1/2 was my choice in AR 5.56 and 222 Remington.

[wallenba]

I sent a comment to Dillon on their 'contact us' link. I included a link to this thread so they could see the pics. I think they should redesign the rod, or what ever they call it, to have a wider base. The end of this one is .121", the primer pocket is .170". The max diameter they can make it of course, is the I.D. of the neck. Mine tapers to a diameter that is actually smaller in diameter than the primer pocket. Of course the brass is going to give in! Compare the two in post #16.

[ioon44]

I guess this is what was happening to my .308 cases when I had the Dillon swager about 10 years ago, different head stamps would need a different adjustment. I junked a lot of brass before I sold it and stuck with the RCBS swager.

I checked some of my LC .223 swaged with the RCBS and the pockets are .118" to .121".

[wallenba]

Heard back from Dillon today. Canned response. Back off on the rod adjustment. DUH... I worked the adjustment up incrementally until it WOULD accept a primer. What I have, is where it takes to do it. I don't have a problem with the 7.62's, then again, the tip of that rod is much larger than the primer pocket. The brass in the case web around the flash hole is supported in the 7.62. The 5.56's is not. As evidenced in the other fellas post at AR-15.com (see link in post#17), I'm not the only one with this issue. He also states in his post that he's not over-swaging. I believe him.

[wallenba]

I guess this is what was happening to my .308 cases when I had the Dillon swager about 10 years ago, different head stamps would need a different adjustment. I junked a lot of brass before I sold it and stuck with the RCBS swager.

I checked some of my LC .223 swaged with the RCBS and the pockets are .118" to .121".

I swaged and prepped all my 5.56 LC brass. I'm going to set them aside. I just ordered 500 General Dynamics 5.56 from Midway. I won't be using the Super Swager on any 5.56 anymore. I have a Wilson pocket reamer coming for both sizes of Nato cases. I believe the Dillon is good with the 7.62's. Luckily, if I'm wrong, I've only swaged 50 of those 500. I got them all from Everglades Ammo, once fired. Don't feel good about selling the 5.56. I believe all are ruined. I'm considering making tooling to knock the pockets back flat and using them for reduced loads with cast bullets for small game.