Citadel 9mm M1 Carbine

[gpidaho]

Hello All: My new Carbine by Chiappa has arrived. I've had it out just once so far. The little gun will sure rattle out some nines in a hurry. It is more accurate than my 30 carbine as well. First impression is good and I would appreciate your thoughts from THOSE THAT OWN ONE. One thing I think I will replace is the cheezy plastic barrel band and I wish the owners manual was a little better written. Mine has plenty of spring for a nine and the chamber is tighter than my PPQ and Glock 17. Other nines I shoot are powder coated and sized .358 but are too tight to chamber in the Chiappa. Please chip in BangerJ and Taz man, let me know your likes and dislikes. Thanks Gp

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I'm pretty sure that Artful owns one--even posted a video on it.

[Artful]

No I don't own one, But liked the looks of it. I have several 9mm long (short?) arms but I currently don't own one. Have you tried Lee factory crimp die on your Powder coated 9's?

[gpidaho]

Artful: Thank you for your reply. Yes, I did use a FCD on my PC'd boolits. I'm just getting started with this carbine and have only tried a few cast boolits. The gun seems to be chambered pretty snug. So far I've shot 50 factory FMJ's and 35 plated 124 handloads. Didn't miss a beat. First go with cast the 9's built for my PPQ were obviously over size at .358 and crimped with FCD. I seated an Oregon Trails 115gr. RN (.356) to a COL of 1.140 in a case that was .750 and had .125 of swage mark left by land and groove above the case mouth. It did chamber but had to be tapped back out with cleaning rod. Sooooo, I have a new sizing die and two new 9mm moulds on the way. I'll get it figured out, just getting started. GP

[Artful]

Sounds like a short throat situation - have you done a chamber cast?

[gpidaho]

Artful: No, I may get a Smith to do one if I can't get some thing to work with the new moulds and sizing die. I've done several pound casts but never on an autoloader. I've never done a cerrosafe (sp) cast but will do one or have one done if else fails. These are fun little guns and remind me of shooting the 22 autoloaders as a kid. Worst to worst I know it loves the plated 124s. I hope a couple of the other guys will post how they are doing with theirs. Maybe I should post a "want to buy" for a 9 mould that drops small, I know by the Laser Cast bullet I tapped out that the bore is a tight .356. Using my pin gauges a fired case will accept .356 but not .357. Yup, she's tight, I'll keep after it. Thanks again, GP

[bangerjim]

M1-9mm..........I have had one for about 5 months now and just love it! Cool to be able to shoot all my 9's in something that is extremely accurate compared to those garbage 9mm semi's I have. It is nice to hit a target at 50-60 yards instead just the side of the barn!

Take off the peep and put on a good scope. I have a 3x9x40. And get some 15 or 20 round mags. Standard Baretta's.

Darn good gun. I would not be afraid to hunt small stuff with it.........if I ever did hunt anything!

Keep your loads near the top as the thing likes a good "kick in the shorts" to cycle it. I shoot 356 and 358 sized PC'd slugs in it all the time with great success.

And it is nice to know I am shooting a carbine similar to the ones my father-in law and uncle carried in WWII.

As you know, I do everything in PC. I love MiHec's NLG 6 cav mold for this one. I size that boolit for 9mm/38SPL/357MAG.

banger

[gpidaho]

Jim: Yes, that is one of the great things about the 9mm moulds. There are ALOT of 9s and 38-357s in my family, at least nine between me and my grown kids. I also shoot a 35 rem so it's great to be able to custom fit the boolits to each gun using our powder coating methods. I think you may be the only one on this board that is more of a fan of the process (PC) than me. lol The little 9 carbine is pretty accurate (a lot better than my 30 carbine) and we have the added benefit of nearly free brass as my local range has about all you'd need laying on the ground (bless their little littering hearts) Keep rolling those cans my friend. I'll post what I get worked out when the new moulds get here. GP

[bangerjim]

Free brass is.........FUN!

Came home the other day with 5# of 9mm, 2# of 40S&W, and 6# of 223/5.56. From the floor. For free. That was just ONE day! Even got 200 pieces of 44MAG the other day. Don't even have one! (yet!!!!)

banger

[gpidaho]

Okay friends, here's an update on my new Citadel 9mm carbine. With these new items on hand I started to work on cast boolits. Lee moulds 356-125-2R and 356-120-TC and a Lee push through .356 sizer MY carbine seems to be short throated as the longest COL that will chamber without engraving both lands and grooves on the sides of the boolit is 1.030. By my figures a case of .750 in length and a head thickness of .265 leaves a powder space of .485 the Lee boolits seated to 1.030 puts them .280 deep in the case, leaving a powder space of just .205. This is right at .100 deeper in the case than boolits for my other 9s with recommended COLs from my load data. Sooooooo I would be removing one third of the available powder space. I'm tentative about deep seating a 9 luger round to this extent. Of all the calibers I load it would have to be a 9 that worked out this way! In defence of the gun, Chiappa does state (as always) to use only high quality factory ammunition and those function flawlessly so far, also no problems with .355 plated bullets (bore slugs .355+) I'll do some calculations and see if any powders fit in the available space without compression. So what are your thoughts as to a start load? Start load from load data, two thirds of start load and work up to function, one gr. under start or .5gr. under start? I hope I come up with something workable short of just loading plated bullets as BOOLITS are what we are all about. Having the barrel throated would most likely be the RIGHT fix but then again I can buy a lot of plated bullets for the cost of having a Smith open this one up. Your thoughts on this would be very much appreciated. Thank you, Gp

[bangerjim]

TiteGroup gives you plenty of room. Others do fill up the cases a lot. I recently cranked up my ETR7 load to 4.2g.....just shy of the max....to insure cycling every time. Fills the case (almost) to the base of the boolit. Lighter loads tend to not cycle every time, but I am not one to trickle pistol loads!!!!!!!!!! NO WAY.

Bulky powders do not work well in 9's as you cannot get a full load in there!

So far, I have had no problems shooting both 356 and 358 sized PC's boolits thru the gun. Picked up a 20 and 30 round mag at a gunshow but they do not feed as well as the 10's that came with it. Will have to play with them. Only out ~$22.

banger

[richhodg66]

I think I'm gonna have to get one of these. I'm liking the sounds of it.

I got an M1 Carbine years ago for my wife to shoot. It's certainly not a pristine one and didn't cost much at the time, but the asking price of real ones has skyrocketed and I really don't like keeping it as a working rifle. Besides that, 9mm would be cheaper to shoot.

[Hogtamer]

Where do you find a dealer? I cannot find one of these carried by a retailer, only on gunbroker.

[gpidaho]

Hogtamer: I got mine from Bud's when it was their weekly special. GP

[Hogtamer]

Thx gp, but no such thing there either...Discontinued? Recall? Dunno but none out there I can find.

[bangerjim]

got mine for Big 5 Sports during a hot sale weekend. Each store only had ONE! Quite a bit more than the usual low end gun "stuff" so they do not carry an inventory.

I have many of those stores within ~10 miles of my house.

You will probably have to order one thru them or similar sporting goods stores. Forget gunbroker!

bangerjim

[gpidaho]

Hogtamer: They are listed at Bud's. Go to rifles and the Howa brand. Must be sister company or such, I thought they would be under Chiappa. Anyway Bud's has em for $399 GP

[gpidaho]

BIG FIVE has them here too $649. OUCH! GP

[jrap]

Ive been trying to figure out if these rifles would be considered Nj legal due to being a different action than an M1 Carbine

[gpidaho]

Hello All, I would like to post once more on this old thread as a summary of what I've found to work best for me after much testing. The rifling on my 9mm carbine begins @ .800 (a little short in my mind) Any boolit with a nose diameter of .350+ at this point will be engraved by the rifling. That being said I've run a lot of 9mm boolits through this little gun with no ill effect save having to tap them out with a rod if you want to eject them unfired. What I've decided to be my best option is the Lee TL356-124-R powder coated. This boolit is .605 long coated and has driving bands of .300 at which point the nose diameter drops to .328. Seated in .750 brass this boolit bumps up against the rifling at a COL of 1.112. I've been using a COL of 1.120 for a nice snug fit and no problems when ejecting loaded rounds. In MY gun boolits so seated chronograph in the mid 1200s using 4.3gr. WSF, this seems to be a mild load with no sign of undo pressure. This load also seems to be about minimum for reliable function as I get a stovepipe every 30-40 rounds.I'll likely bump this up a couple of tenths. Also TiteGroup and True Blue are on my list of powders to try next. All in all I like this little carbine it's a reloadable 10-22 with much more power and you can find the ammo if you do want to by a box or two. Good shooting all Gp

[bangerjim]

Titegroup works very well in 9's. It is one of my standard powders for everything pistol and carbine.

banger

[Lefty Red]

I held one and I didn't like it. The safety is junk, plastic and a small switch. Its all plastic and I don't think its worth $200. Wish they just casted Universal receivers and put in retro fitting GI parts in them.

Jerry

[gpidaho]

I can't say that my first impression of the little carbine was any different than Jerry's. When I picked it up at the FFL my first thought was, Oh **** shoulda bought a Camp 9 The junk plastic trigger group is held in place with a roll pin and needs to be removed for proper cleaning. The cheezy front band bayonet lug is plastic and I'm going to replace it with a real metal one. If your looking for a finely crafted weapon with beautiful furniture look somewhere else. On the plus side, after some trial and error I've come up with some pretty accurate loads for it (much more accurate than my 30 carbine) and nine brass is, well FREE. Think of this carbine as a basic 10-22 that is reloadable and has a lot more power. It's a great little beer can roller, fun to shoot and only time will tell if it holds up, I've paid more for guns that didn't work as well. Gp

[bangerjim]

If you do not like the plastic parts............make your own! I plan to if needed.

Or buy M1 after-market parts if it really bothers you.

Today's "plastics" are tougher than many metals.

"Any of a group of synthetic or natural organic materials that may be shaped when soft and then hardened, including many types of resins, resinoids, polymers, cellulose derivatives, casein materials, and proteins: used in place of other materials, as glass, wood, and metals, in construction and decoration, for making many articles, as coatings, and, drawn into filaments, for weaving. They are often known by trademark names, as Bakelite, Vinylite, or Lucite."

This is not your childhood Mattel plastic model styrene stuff. If carbon fiber "plastics" are good enough for commercial aviation, it is sure good enough for us plinkers.

banger

[gpidaho]

Well said Jim, as usual we agree. I like mine and I know from your posts that you too are having fun with yours, I'm not all hung up on plastic parts being inferior. Way back when I was one of the first to by a Glock, that little 17 still guards my DIL when she's home alone and has had lots of rounds sent through it. As said time will tell but I stand by the "These are fun" statement. Gp