Mypin Ta4 PID Exceeds Set Temp, Lee Pot Set to Low or High?

[psychbiker]

Did my first casting last night with the PID I made and my dad helped wire.

Plugged PID in, set temp to 650 (which I learned is far too low now), plugged Lee 4-20 into back of PID box, came back about 10 minutes later and 10lbs of lead was fully melted.

Temp started going up and up and blew past my 650 set point. It got to 720 I think. I turned the knob on the LEE Pot down to 1-2 and it started coming back down.

Questions:

What temp setting on the Lee should put it at? Do I just put it on max and the PID should regulate the rest?

I pressed the auto tune button on the Mypin PID. Should I adjust settings more on it? Do I just need to load it up the pot with 20 lbs, drop in the probe sensor and let it level out while a mold is warming up? I've read some go in and change the "I" setting.

[OuchHot!]

I am using, I guess 80% of max setting on my lee. The PID does the controlling. The first run did over-shoot (maybe 35-40 degrees, don't recall) but came down to set point after a short while. I then (at set temp) did an auto tune. Subsequent over-shoots, on start-up, were small and didn't worry me much. I actually switch between two pots (other is a pro-melt) and don't auto tune for each. both of my pots tend to lift the valve on start up if I leave them full so I drain them to about 60% at the end of each run. The thermocouple is not a fully immersed as I would like so I don't get too excited about overshoot. After the first auto tune it might overshoot 10-15 degrees. Given the two different pots and the thermocouple immersion, I don't get too worried about it. I don't walk away from any bottom pour pot for any period of time.

[Yodogsandman]

I set my Lee pot to the max and let the PID do it's job. When "auto tuning" it will over shoot and maybe under correct for a few cycles to "learn" your pot. After that you should have no more worries.

[Cmm_3940]

You should set the pot at 100%. If the PID won't train, there is something wrong.

[Handloader109]

You should set the pot at 100%. If the PID won't train, there is something wrong.
Yep this....if you kee adjusting the Lee thermostat, you will continue to have prob!ems
Try auto tune again.

[dragon813gt]

Keep the pot thermostat turned all the way up. Just be aware that it's still going to over or under shoot depending on how full the pot is. If you auto tune it w/ the pot full compared to half the P I and D values will be different. I auto tuned mine at about 85% fill and it stays right on track until just before you start to lose nozzle pressure. Do yourself a favor and leave some sprues out. This way if it overshoots you can bring it back down. I've found it tends to over shoot more when going from ambient to your set temp.

[gwpercle]

I have 3 different Lee pots, but no PID, start out with knob set at 7.5, after casting a while and frosty boolits start showing up , I turn it down to 7.25 and finish casting at that setting. This method works on all three pots.
Gary

[dragon813gt]

I have 3 different Lee pots, but no PID, start out with knob set at 7.5, after casting a while and frosty boolits start showing up , I turn it down to 7.25 and finish casting at that setting. This method works on all three pots.
Gary

Put a thermometer And watch how much the temp goes up as you drain the pot. If your alloy has any tin, it will start to separate from the alloy. The question is also specifically about a PID.

[bhn22]

The Lee pot heats at full power continuously, it does not "simmer". Turn it up all the way and let the PID do it's job. It will never learn the heat setting if you keep interfering with it while it's "learning".

[N4AUD]

Don't turn the pot knob. Put it all the way up, set your PID at the temp you want, and let the PID learn how fast your pot heats and cools. It will go up and down a few times at first but it will soon stabilize.

[Mike W1]

Turn the pot on MAX and leave it alone. Set your desired temperature on the PID and when you're 20-30 ° from your goal use your AT feature. Generally they have to overshoot and undershoot about 3 complete cycles and then the AT should turn itself off. The AT is what determines and sets the P, I, and D so let it do it's thing.

[psychbiker]

Sweet! Thanks guys! Gonna get it a go tomorrow.

My first batch ever was a disaster. Out of 15lbs I think I kept 10...only 10 147gr boolits, all the rest were garbage. Stopped with about 7lb of lead still in the pot. Molds werent warm and I was tripping about the temp getting to high, probably pouring cold lead.

I got a hotplate today and wont start casting once molds are 300+ degrees hot.

[OuchHot!]

I agree that you want the PID to do all control. I do not set the knobs at 100% on my two pots because both will get far hotter at that setting than I ever want them to get. Not all pots are like this. My PID does the controlling, I do not have the PID fighting with the internal setting. The reason that I do this is you will eventually have a thermocouple fall out of the pot, the junction open, or a connection fail. Then the PID thinks your pot is ice cold and you burn the tin out of your mix. But again, this depends on your pot. I have seen pro-melts that won't go past 750F at 100%.....obviously, there is no risk setting the knob wide open. My lee 4-20 just gets hotter and hotter as I run it lower an I find myself constantly resetting the knob....that's why it got a PID!

[psychbiker]

Gave it another shot tonight. Filled pot with lead. Plugged it in, set temp to 715, waited to about 680 and hit the "AT" to auto tune. The Lee Pot knob was at 9. You can see where the temp got. I was getting nice fill out but light silver (frosted) 40 cal bullets.

Gonna do a boiling water test later, maybe the thermocouple wires are crossed. One was white with a red chaser and the other was white. Figured the solid white was negative and white with red was positive.

Heated up several other molds and really nothing turned out. Molds were warmed on a hot plate too. Damn 147gr were sticking to the pins. Those came out shiny though. The 198gr and 155gr 30cals had swirls.

Maybe my probes needs to be deeper. Think its about 1/2" from the bottom.

http://i.imgur.com/OB8dPezl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Hkiuhrql.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lXjisCrl.jpg

[Beagle333]

If you had them crossed, the temp would simply show it as falling as it got hotter. My probe is 1/2" from the bottom too. It measures from the very tip. The rest of it is just to support the tip.

[Mike W1]

Most posts I've seen say to put the TC about 1/2" from both the sides and the bottom and both of mine are about there.
Easiest way to tell if your TC is reversed is just hold it in your fingers (when it's room temp of course) and your body heat should show the PV temperature rising. If it decreases just reverse your connection. I don't think that's what your problem is though.

If you PM me your email address I could send you a couple little files on how to check your PID & SSR. Don't have one on testing the TC but using boiling water and also ice water would probably tell you if it's got any problems.

[Yodogsandman]

Your TC probe is working fine.

Increase the heat of your molds. Speed up your casting rhythm to maintain that heat. Pour a more generous sprue puddle, too. That will keep the sprue plate hot and prevent rounded bases.

Pot temperature depends on your alloy used, mold temperature and casting cadence. 715*F seems about right, though. I set my PID at 725*F but, add sprues back in as I go.

[timtheartist]

Hello casters, I'm new to castboolits. Many years ago I manufactured jewelry and cast gold teeth in dental labs. Are you people using the same temperature control equipment used in kilns? I've found jewelry supplies, ceramics supplies and dental lab supplies can be expensive sources. Any inexpensive source info would be appreciated.

[jsizemore]

If you lower your set temp, does the alloy temp go down?

[jsizemore]

Hello casters, I'm new to castboolits. Many years ago I manufactured jewelry and cast gold teeth in dental labs. Are you people using the same temperature control equipment used in kilns? I've found jewelry supplies, ceramics supplies and dental lab supplies can be expensive sources. Any inexpensive source info would be appreciated.

Read this:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?34547-How-I-wired-a-PID-to-control-temperature

Plenty sticky's to read about many subjects. Welcome to the site.

[timtheartist]

Thanks Jsizemore. I will study the link you sent

[GrayTech]

Hello casters, I'm new to castboolits. Many years ago I manufactured jewelry and cast gold teeth in dental labs. Are you people using the same temperature control equipment used in kilns? I've found jewelry supplies, ceramics supplies and dental lab supplies can be expensive sources. Any inexpensive source info would be appreciated.
Try looking on eBay.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Gave it another shot tonight. Filled pot with lead. Plugged it in, set temp to 715, waited to about 680 and hit the "AT" to auto tune. The Lee Pot knob was at 9. You can see where the temp got.
...snip
psychbiker (and others)
disclaimer: I have never used a Mypin
Isn't there other parameters besides P, I, & D for the Mypin ?

I am using a JLD612 and I had to manually check and/or change the following parameters manually, before I used AT.
Souf=0.2
ot=2
FiLt=0

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?277407-JLD612PID-Lee-4-20

[timtheartist]

Thanks Gray Tech
I will check eBay

[psychbiker]

Dumb question, do I need to disconnect anything internally from the Lee Pot? It shot past 730 again today with Lee Pot plugged into PID and dial turned to max.

Checked with boiling water and temp was high by 6 degrees (220).

I loaded pot with lead, plugged pot into PID and plugged into wall. I waited until like 100f degrees before I hit the auto tune function.

Ill post out up my wiring below, written one. I followed the colored diagram and used 14ga for everything.

http://i.imgur.com/U4P1lPDl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/czuhaeL.jpg

[Hannibal]

Get rid of the jumper wires between 7&10 and 8&9 and toss them. Connect the thermocouple between 7&8 with the positive on 8.

I have the same PID and this arrangement works perfectly. Don't forget to add a fuse or 2 when you finish testing.

Just noticed your written diagram. Looks like you aren't using any jumpers. Your wiring should be fine if that's the case.

When your pot gets to 715 degrees or whatever you set it to, you need to take a multimeter and see if the SSR is receiving voltage from the PID or not. If you aren't sure how, you need to find someone who knows how to do this.

Hope this helps.

[Tom R]

Just an fyi the lee thermostat is easy to bypass just take of the plate on top and move the spade connecter to the heating element. That way the pid in in control 100%.

[psychbiker]

Did a light test I think. Might indicate what's working or not.

http://youtu.be/xR-lzO18i68

[Mike W1]

Get rid of the jumper wires between 7&10 and 8&9 and toss them. Connect the thermocouple between 7&8 with the positive on 8.

I have the same PID and this arrangement works perfectly. Don't forget to add a fuse or 2 when you finish testing.

Just noticed your written diagram. Looks like you aren't using any jumpers. Your wiring should be fine if that's the case.

When your pot gets to 715 degrees or whatever you set it to, you need to take a multimeter and see if the SSR is receiving voltage from the PID or not. If you aren't sure how, you need to find someone who knows how to do this.

Hope this helps.

Neither of mine is a Mypin, but both of mine have an indicator that goes green when power is on to the lead pot. I put a 120v neon on mine as that shows up a little better but in reality was already on the PID anyway.

[HATCH]

Just an fyi the lee thermostat is easy to bypass just take of the plate on top and move the spade connecter to the heating element. That way the pid in in control 100%.

exactly what I did and what I would recommend

[psychbiker]

Anyone have manual settings for the Mypin?

Basically whats happening is once temperature is reached, it's not shutting power off to the pot (outlet in installed).

Dad stopped by and we disconnected the +3 input terminal on the SSR and the 20w light went out, that tells us the SSR is working and not 'stuck' open.

It's either a bad PID or something in the programing of the PID I've missed.

[dragon813gt]

Do you have a meter? Easy to test and see if the PID is still putting out power after the set temp is achieved. You're looking to see if power is applied at terminals 3 and 4.

[Mike W1]

I'm losing track of who is who on here!!! Think I sent you a copy of Frozone's manual which should give you the required settings on the PID. I'm betting you'll find a setting problem.

Couldn't stand it any longer so I went out and brought one of my units in the house. Set my desired temperature to 80° F. Plugged a lamp in and stuck my TC in a glass of ice water. Lamp lit up. Stuck the probe into a glass of hot water (100° F +) and the lamp went out. Simple enough but I'd never had the actual need to try it before.

I also took a look at Frozone's manual. When you finish setting your desired SET TEMPERATURE (SV) you have to hit the SET button again. The upper readout is whatever the temp is where your TC is placed.

[Hannibal]

Anyone have manual settings for the Mypin?

Basically whats happening is once temperature is reached, it's not shutting power off to the pot (outlet in installed).

Dad stopped by and we disconnected the +3 input terminal on the SSR and the 20w light went out, that tells us the SSR is working and not 'stuck' open.

It's either a bad PID or something in the programing of the PID I've missed.

I think the initial settings are in the manual. I'm not at home or I'd send you the settings mine has.

[psychbiker]

I'm losing track of who is who on here!!! Think I sent you a copy of Frozone's manual which should give you the required settings on the PID. I'm betting you'll find a setting problem.

Couldn't stand it any longer so I went out and brought one of my units in the house. Set my desired temperature to 80° F. Plugged a lamp in and stuck my TC in a glass of ice water. Lamp lit up. Stuck the probe into a glass of hot water (100° F +) and the lamp went out. Simple enough but I'd never had the actual need to try it before.

I also took a look at Frozone's manual. When you finish setting your desired SET TEMPERATURE (SV) you have to hit the SET button again. The upper readout is whatever the temp is where your TC is placed.

My lamp turns on SOON as I plug it into my PID. Does not matter the set temp. That's the problem I'm having.

Turned PID on, set SV to 80 degrees. Plugged lamp in, light turned on. Put thermocuople into 100 degree water, lamp stayed on.

I've changed and re-rechanged the alarms. I've changed the P, I, and D settings several times. Right now D is off like the maual. However, Frozone's manual says to never turn D off (I think cuz alarms are tied to it).

At a loss but need to get it to work. Spent too much time on the box.

I can use it an expensive thermometer for now but frustrating its not working.

If anyone that has a MYPIN wants to list their settings, I can see if that works.

[bhn22]

You mean this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ3H_XhFU7E

[Mike W1]

You mean this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ3H_XhFU7E

Didn't notice at first you'd attached a video somehow.