Troubleshooting Shotmaker

[chrisx1]

I have a home made shotmaker. After an abysmal first try at dropping shot, I read a couple of the threads on this forum....

I got some things changed, and tried again this afternoon. I did pretty well, but I had two drippers that just would not work. Possibly need cleaned? These two "bad" drippers caused me to end up with 55 lbs of good shot and 25 lbs of huge pea sized droplets. Anyway, my first question is:

1 - What is an easy, quick, heat proof way to temporarily plug a dripper that you can't get working? My thought was that since the other 5/7 drippers were working properly, I could have just quickly plugged the two bad ones and had a lot less bad product to sort out later.

Also, I had quite a few tear drop shaped droplets that turned up after sorting. My second question is:

2 - What am I doing wrong if I get tear drop shaped droplets that are the correct diameter (in this case #8)?


Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to the various shotmaker threads here, they were very helpful.

Chris

[Red River Rick]

chrisx1:

Common blackboard chalk should be used on the ramp portion of your shotmaker, this helps prevent the lead droplets from sticking and becoming "Tear-drop" shaped. It should also be a smooth as possible, polishing with various grits of emery cloth will make a big difference.

Since you already have the chalk in hand, those problem nozzles can be plugged with the chalk. And can be easily cleaned out after with "Tip Cleaners" used for cleaning Oxy-Acet cutting tips.

RRR

[chrisx1]

Rick,
Thanks for the tip on using chalk for an emergency plug. I was using both chalk and soapstone on the ramp, with the best results seeming to come from the soapstone. However, I think that my ramp needs some additional polishing, because now that everything has cooled off, I can see a couple of rough spots on the areas under those problem drippers. Are we talking mirror finish here, or do I want to stick to emery cloth? Buffing wheel and compound are coming to mind.

Chris

[Red River Rick]

Chrisx1:

Mirror polished would be best. Get out the buffing wheel and some good compound.

Good Luck.
RRR

[heathydee]

Rough spots on the bib will cause problems. I usually give mine a quick polish with an orbital sander using 80 or 100 grit emery. Another cause of blobbing is too high a lead level . I tend to get a bit of this as I run mine at the highest level possible in order to get the shot as small and uniform as possible . The blobs are easily screened out . I have best results with blackboard chalk.
Persevere and I am sure you will overcome all of these teething troubles.

[scrapcan]

What are you using for coolant? The coolant can also cause tails, dimples, etc...

Also put up a picture of your homeade pot.

[chrisx1]

I'm using crop oil for coolant. I have an ammo can that I fill with oil and let it overflow into a larger catch can. The oil was getting pretty hot by the time I quit, could temperature of the coolant effect droplet shape?

I will get a picture up soon.

[scrapcan]

I think the temperature is not the issue with you having tails on the shot, rather a quality of of the coolant itself (maybe an issue with it's viscosity or temperature of turning to vapor at the shot interface. We had the same issue when using diesel fuel, we had pits (likea golf ball) when using water. Much better round shot when using antifreeze.

You will figure this out. And yes pictures woudl be great.

[chrisx1]

Here's a couple of pictures. Please excuse the clutter in the background, I have it shoved back in a corner for storage right now.

We made the main pot out of an old pressure cooker....cut out a notch in the bottom with a plasma cutter and welded a piece of angle back in. Then bolted another piece of angle to the bottom to get the angle.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/chrisx1/shotmaker1.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/chrisx1/shotmaker2.jpg

The main overflow tank holds it all together. It supports the burner, and a support inside the overflow tank holds up the ammo can.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/chrisx1/shotmaker3.jpg

[chrisx1]

Here's another pic or two:

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/chrisx1/shotmaker4.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/chrisx1/shotmaker5.jpg

[RP]

I have found if the lead level is to low or to high it will effect the shot tails size and so on. also i use greese for my shot lip applied with a radiator style brush while shot maker is running it burns and leaves a surface for the lead to roll on instead of sticking. Note my shot maker is made out of castiron. Also try transmission fluid as a coolant you can get it used from a transmission shop free i was using hyl fluid but i was buying it. Dont know how thick the crop oil is but that may be a problem. Noticed that one of the pics there was snow cold coolant will cause problems. Also if you have runs instead of drips the lead my be to hot or to much lead (causing presure ) one other thing the drop to coolant should be 1/4 of a inch. Something else I noticed which may have been for the pic is keep your nozzles under lead at all times even when you shut down this keeps the lead scum out of the nozzles.

[chrisx1]

I have been tinkering some more. I have found that if I keep the lead temp low (about 550-600 degrees), everything seems to work better. No tails on the shot, and much less scrap/oversize. Also, keeping a consistent lead level, about 1/2" over the nozzles seemed to keep the beads forming well. This slowed production a little, but the end product seems to be better overall. Also, the crop oil seems to be working well, but the last two times I have used it, it has been over 60F. The cold weather could have been effecting it this past winter. Time will tell on this, but I like the crop oil - it is very easy to wash off with a garden hose, and not hazardous.

Chris

[chrisx1]

I'm getting better results now, here is a video. As you can see, I have about 4 that run well all the time, and 3 that kick out oversize about every 4th or 5th drop...any suggestions/comments? The last ammo can I filled up yielded only 10 lbs oversize and about 50 lbs good shot, very few tails or teardrops.

Just click on the picture below and it will take you to photobucket to view the video.........

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/chrisx1/th_Shotmakervideo.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/chrisx1/?action=view&current=Shotmakervideo.flv)

[duke76]

I would put some soapstone on the lip, increase the temp to 700 if possible and lower the lead level in the pot, If a dripper seems slower, tap on it a little, try all this and let us know if it is better, Todd

[RP]

First I would like to say thats a very nice homemade shotmaker. I have been making some shot my self and I have found everytime you see a stall in your drips is when you get a larger shot watching your vidio you can see what iam talking about not just the one that hangs for a while but any stall. And I beleive Duke is right run you lead hotter this will increase the speed of your drops and help with the size the lead wont be so sticky. The shot comes out of mine so fast its hard to see the spacing with vidio its more visisible. Also like Duke said tapping the nozzles will help remove some dirt that is slowing the flow. One other thing the lead itself will have a effect on the shot been tweaking on mine have had some big systoms changes by changing how far the lead fall before it reaches the ramp.

[Shotgun Luckey]

Great video

[scrapcan]

You might also have a n issue with that portion of your pot not getting hot enough. sometimes when we startup up we get large blobs that do not drip that small stream. also when you start seeing those big drops try tapping the area near the nozzle and see if you jsut have a little crude in the nozzle.

Looks like it is beginnning to be a very nice shotmaker.

[greybeard]

Hi: What size hole do you drill for the different shot sizes? Is there a list somewhere of the sizes? Thank's Dan

[chrisx1]

I just bought my nozzles from Magma/Littleton - it's $50 well spent unless you have the ability to drill a verrrrry small hole. Someone here used Tweeco tips with good luck also.

[RP]

Dont know about different sizes of nozzles but I can tell you for 9s the holes are 20 thousands about the size of a wire out of a wire brush.

[encoreman]

Greybeard, That is the exact thing I want to know. What size hole for # shot. Thanks for any comments. Mac

[luvmy40]

I just made a shot maker and I'm needing a bit of input so I thought I'd resurrect this thread.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/tools/IMG_0850_zps0414016d.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/tools/IMG_0850_zps0414016d.jpg.html)

I have two .024" double orifice drippers installed(not pictured).

The "ramp" is made from 1/8" sheet aluminum. It's about 2 1/4" from ladle to edge and is perpendicular to the side wall of the ladle. I am lubing the ramp with spray graphite dry lube. The ramp can do with a little more polishing but it's not bad.

The "ladle" is an old aluminum electric skillet.

The burner is from an old turkey fryer and has helped me smelt close to a ton of lead over the last few years.

I'm using undiluted ethylene glycol antifreeze quenching coolant. I have to tweak the setup a bit yet but I had just a bit higher than 1/4" drop to the coolant.

What I am getting is consistent sized but flat and dimpled rather than round and dimpled or(the ultimate goal) round. Not tear drops. Not pop corned.

I'm thinking my ramp is too long and maybe needs a bit more angle. I also think the ladle is not transferring enough heat to the ramp as I get the occasional "blob".

So, if anyone who was part of this thread originally is still around or if anyone else has been making shot, I'd love some input.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/misc/IMG_0852_zps3be3e340.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/misc/IMG_0852_zps3be3e340.jpg.html)

[Cap'n Morgan]

Your ramp should be steeper! The trick is to get the lead droplets rolling down the ramp - not sliding. Back when I made my own shot, I used a thick layer of zinc-based anti-seize lubricant on the ramp and then heated the paste with a propane burner to dry up the surface. The zinc paste adds a rough texture to the ramp surface and isolate the lead droplets from the ramp.

The length of you ramp seems to be okay - too long a ramp and the shot will gain too much speed and take on a disc-like shape due to the centrifugal force.

[luvmy40]

I added a bit of angle to the ramp and set up with a 1/4" drop to the coolant. I used a smaller tank this time. Is there enough depth of coolant?

The antifreeze vaporized and ignited very quickly. I'd only run a pound or two before it flamed up. I will raise the burner in relation to the ladle so I can run a lower flame. Maybe that will help.

The shot was even less round this time. Still consistent in size but very nonuniform in shape and flat/dimpled badly. Is the antifreeze too thin maybe?

Littleton's FAQ says Sierra propylene glycol anti freeze works right out of the bottle but I can't find it around here. Several other post elsewhere claim that any undiluted antifreeze works. I considered fabric softener but the antifreeze just sounded better from the various postings and threads I've found.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/tools/IMG_0857_zps40172fef.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/tools/IMG_0857_zps40172fef.jpg.html)

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/tools/IMG_0858_zpsa08d65e6.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/tools/IMG_0858_zpsa08d65e6.jpg.html)

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/misc/IMG_0854_zps0ce07e5c.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/misc/IMG_0854_zps0ce07e5c.jpg.html)

[MT Chambers]

The ramp on my Littleton is only about 3/4" wide and on quite an angle, it drops about 1/8" to the coolant and the coolant cannot touch the ramp. If even one of the seven drippers slows, it will throw larger shot so I stop the process by lifting/tilting the machine so it won't feed, then I use a welding tip cleaner of the right size to clear dripper(be careful it's hot). Constant tapping on the top(above drippers) keeps things moving along nicely. Dimples means your coolant is too thick. tails means it's too thin. Just some tips from someone who makes hundreds of pounds of #8 shot every year.

[luvmy40]

I just added more angle to the ramp and shortened it a bit. It's still about 2" wide though.

Is there any chance that the drop from the dripper to the ramp is to high?

[luvmy40]

I ran a bit more and it looks to me like there is no rolling on the ramp at all. 2 bounces and into the drink with the second bounce being right at the edge.

I diluted the antifreeze about 2/1 AF/water. Still flat odd shaped and dimpled.

I had to break it down for the night. I'll take another look tomorrow.

I'm determined to make this work. I'm sick of paying $40.00 a bag for shot when I get my bullet alloy for $0.50/lb!

[Vinne]

Your coolant seems to be too close to your heat source. My Littleton is electric so I don't have that problem. Try placing a thick piece of Sheetrock (wallboard) in between and use a larger coolant tank. Temperature of the coolant is just as important as the temperature of the lead. If the coolant is too hot it will cause all kinds of troubles. Some I have seen on the internet even have the coolant tank in a deep pan of water to keep it cooler longer.

Like MT, I have been making my own shot for years and that was back when shot went up to $12 a bag!! Now that el-government has stuck their nose in the mix, WW have been ever harder to get. I still have a small batch left so I don't shoot as much as I did before. Always on the lookout for WWs. Good luck with your project.

[Cap'n Morgan]

I ran a bit more and it looks to me like there is no rolling on the ramp at all. 2 bounces and into the drink with the second bounce being right at the edge.

There's your problem! The shot should roll - not bounce. Think of the molten droplets as small water balloons; they will flatten under their own weight if not kept rolling.

Make sure you're not running the melt too hot! The hotter the melt, the lower the viscosity = more difficult to control the shape of the shot.

[luvmy40]

I think it's the distance from the nozzle to the ramp. I'll add a 1/4" layer of aluminum sometime this week.

The drops are hitting the ramp and flattening out drastically then bouncing off the edge. I think raising the ramp to the nozzle will help.

[RP]

When I was making shot which I made a lot of over two tons by my records I found a few things out even with a steward better shot maker. They are very very moody. Only coolant that would work for me without getting a lot of deformed shot was used transmission fluid well I sure new would have worked but used was free. Also the alloy effects the shot what I used was range lead which is softer then WWs. When I first fired it up my shot was not great until it got the fluid warmed up which I think helped with the hard impact of the lead hitting the coolant. In my videos of the shot maker running you can see the shot dropping out of the nozzles and bouncing down the ramp instead of running into a ball. The fall is very important also for me less was better so close the fluid would sometimes splash the ramp.
Another note to think about is when I got it set up and running angle right table level the moon lined up with the mars it made perfect round shot. But if I moved the set up I had to fine tune it back again which was a pain in the butt. So when you getting it going I would avoid moving it in any way since it will knock it out of its sweet spot. I had my tank designed so that as the shot filled the tank the oil overflowed into a holding tank which I pumped back into the catch tank when I emptied the shot out of the bottom with a valve I installed. Even doing that my shot would get out of round. When I got it up and running I ran it as long as I could or until the coolant got to the point I was worried about a flash fire most of the time I was ready to stop. I also ran a pre heat melt to keep it going when I changed it to double drippers and had a friend to help my feed the monster.
All that being said when I got the best shot was when it was in full run not at start up or finish I am not sure running it for a shot run will produce the shot you are looking for. I hope what I have learned helps you. BTW the shot you make will kill doves a lot better then store shot or factory loads.

[luvmy40]

I got a few minutes before the rain to try out the latest mod.

I added a layer of 1/4" aluminum to the ramp and raised the burner about 1-1/2". The lead melted with a much lower flame but the extra mass of the 1/4" layer on the ramp did not heat up before the lead started dripping and the drops stuck to the ramp immediately.

When the rain stops, I'll set up again and preheat the ramp with a propane torch to see if that actually was the issue with the sticking globs.

[Faret]

What alloy are you using if it does not have arsenic in it it will not make round shot.

[luvmy40]

Wheel weights and battery terminals. It should have trace arsenic.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

For the original poster- and Luvmy40
1. email me at Littletonshot@msn.com
2. did you have time to go through our instructions online?
NOT ANY anti freeze will work- the best I have used comes from Allegheny Petroleum - Fr46 - but PINK RV anit-freeze works well, NO WATER added- (this item was called Altra fr200wg in case you call looking for it)
3. I have seen very god shot made from PURE and also from the alloy :11.6#'s pure to 1 # 60/40 solder- comes out to 1 in 20- almost as hard as if not close ww/ some say magnum chilled-
4. Sierra is good- but hard to find- NOT THE BEST but good

[luvmy40]

Alan B,
Thank you and yes, I have read your FAQs and instructions. Both are very helpful.

Thank you again for taking an interest in helping. I know how much work goes into making your product and appreciate a quality tool. I'm just cash poor and an insatiable doityerselfer.

The sierra anti freeze is unobtanium in my neck of the woods, I'll look into the Altra if I cannot get something working with the standard Peak stuff.

I think My issues are more related to getting the physical "machine" set up properly. The shot I'm getting has little chance of ever being spherical regardless of the quenching medium.

I haven't had any spare time for the last few days but I should be able to take another stab at it later this week.

[luvmy40]

Do you mean the RV potable system antifreeze?

[Littleton Shot Maker]

Yes - it's pink, It's used in RVs to winterize the water lines...

I really hate to see you twisting in the wind, trying to make machine from scratch that is not treating you so well.... I do sell parts on their own also, but if you want to making shot LIKE now, then you'll have to concede that it may be quicker and wiser to invest in a new machine-

Same reason I would never try to make my own reloaders, They are out there and do a great job already....shoot my an email or give a call, I'll do what I can to help.

[luvmy40]

You are absolutely right, I just don't have the extra cash right now. I'm also too damn stubborn to admit that I can't do something.

I may convert this to an electric heating element, if I can do so extremely cheaply. This will not be the first time I've tried a do it your self project and wound up buying something available on the market when I could not make it work. It doesn't happen often but it does happen.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

I was/ am the same way , stubborn, I wanted to make shot, no one was going to tell me it couldn't be done at home / shop BUT I realized trying to make my own Shot Maker unit would cost me tons of time and even more money.

We had a couple places lined up to take shot from us if we could find a way to make the shot in large enough volumes quick enough....that is when shot hit 18.50/ 20 bucks a bag-

This is the stubborn part, I called "Jerry" and called him about 50+ more times over a time period of 9 months or more, 'he did not have time to make me one', or 2, then 6 then 10 I then hit him for a baker's dozen!!!. It's was the only way to get him to take my calls serious ,or get him to talk with me!

long story short A year goes by , I am still giving him a hard time on emails, phone calls- etc etc , He up a sells me the Co.
.
I feel you pain, you want to do it your self , I get it 100% Let me offer you up the Aluminum Pan and drippers at least , that way you can build up what ever else you want but you'll be starting with something that has a proven track record....

for me it's not about making a buck or a sale, I can see you want to pull it off but your going to spend soo much time trying to do it. and get very little in return.

I did it so I could laod more and shoot more- not mess with trying to build this thing from dead scratch..."We" are shooters, our main reason for doing this is to keep the Littleton machine from going away with Jerry's demise and to help shooters KEEP shooting....


​You've got my email, feel free to contact me, I will try to help when you are ready

[mtgrs737]

Alan is right, you may be able to make shot with what your using but from what I see you are wasting your time. If you have a good source of lead cheap then find a friend or two and pool your resources and buy a shotmaker and get to making good usable shot. That is what I did about 3 years ago and it has paid for itself more than once. Alan will be happy to help you get set up and dripping good shot, he did with me. I could tell you what your doing wrong with your frying pan set up but it would mean starting all over anyway, just find a way and buy the shotmaker,you will have more to build anyway like a coolant tank, sieves, graphter etc. I use liquid laundry soap to drip into. I shoot AA in trap singles with my shot, so I know it works.

[luvmy40]

Appreciate all the help there.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

Luvmy40
there is strong chance that I'll have a blemished box that will get sold for less than the Normal msrp- trying to recover a machine that went out to a 'writter' that he never paid for , nor did he ever do the article so I am trying to get him to return my emails and see what's up. I am sure it won't look brand new so I'll have to mark it down some. Maybe this would work out for you??

mtgrs737, thanks for the kind words- I do my part to help shooters keep shooting if I can.

[Geezer in NH]

After making 3 ton of shot We sold our Littleton shot maker. Not profitable to our shop. However I found dimpled shot or tear shaped made no difference in my or my partners trap score. He is a AA rated shooter.

I still use the big ones that are 5's or sixes in my ML fowlers. they kill fantastic still 20 years latter.

Recovered shot for trap , skeet, clays IMHO will make no real difference. psychological disorders will create tons it appears from internet forums.

[luvmy40]

I picked up a large ammo can this weekend to make a better quench tank. Hopefully I'll have some time to putz with this some this week.

Alan B,
Thanks for the offer. It'll depend on a whole lot of factors but let me know what you have and what you need.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

I like to use the 20mm can with a 50 cal inside of that, fill the 20mm can with coolant- your choice
the 50 cal can is punched out with 1/2'' big holes,
add very good sturdy grab handle to pull can out from coolant
keep the 50 neat the top, when you pull it less liquid will want to migrate out with the lead,

the 50 cal catch can needs to be sealed up good on the inside
expanded mesh ( galvanized) with fine ( aluminum) screen inside, all held together with screws, washer nuts,
you pull the 50 cal can out every 20-30 minutes, so having 2 or 3 is best.
the 50 cal can needs to sit on a frame (inside) the 20mm can, angle iron or aluminum square tubing works great, easy to cut, drill , fasten etc....

Still need an over flow port, and tank or a pump to refill the 20mm can....all depends how much shot and how often you want to run the machine. If you run 1 run one time a month vs. 8 hrs a day 5 days a week....