ohland
07-07-2015, 04:54 PM
Recreation, vol 54, No. 1, Jan 1916, pages 25-26
https://books.google.com/books?id=qXw7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA25&dq=casting+rifle+bullets&hl=en&sa=X&ei=djicVavlKoTBtQXL25jIBQ&ved=0CFYQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=casting%20rifle%20bullets&f=false
143922 143923 143924
2gr FFG, 9gr. Schuetz. CB - 2gr FFG, 9 1/2 gr Schuetz. CB - 3gr FFG, 9 gr Schuetz, MC
EXPERIMENTING WITH A .25-21 RIFLE
by C.S. Landis
THE purpose of this work was to secure a load or several of them that would be at the same time a very accurate target load and one suitable for game shooting, that would shoot accurately all day without cleaning, for hunting, and when nightfall came and the rifle was cleaned we could be sure it could be cleaned thoroughly with no danger of pitting afterwards. '
Inquiry among friends disclosed the fact that the combination of nitro primers and Sharpshooter powder had ruined barrels galore. In one case one crank had collected evidence of about 100 cases of ruined barrels in .25-20 and .25-21 calibers and in every case nitro primers had been used.
Several others were just as severe on Schuetzen powder; they claimed it had ruined their barrels in spite of the most careful cleaning. As a result I determined to use only black powder primers with a small priming charge of black powder and clean with stronger ammonia and see the result. I tested this method as severely as possible by hunting on days when there was a heavy fog and on one day when it rained all day long and the outside of the rifle was covered with fine rust; I had absolutely no rusting or pitting whatever. The inside of the barrel is like a mirror. What more could be desired?
The matter was presented to the Du Pont Powder Company for an opinion and they replied to the effect that “Schuetzen powder would not pit the barrel if it were cleaned with stronger ammonia, Niedner's firearms dope or Hoppe’s Nitro Powder Solvent No. 9 and oiled afterwards, but if cleaned in the good old black-powder way of water, rags and oil, trouble from pitting was occasionally reported.” This probably explained why some had their trouble from Schuetzen.
EXPERIMENTAL LOADS
Various loads of straight smokeless Schuetzen were tried behind hand-made Ideal bullets No. .25720, known as 86-grain weight, but which actually did weigh 90.8 to 92 grains each, depending on the alloy. Nine grains by weight of Schuetzen in U. M. C. shells expanded in the chamber of this particular rifle by previous firing—resized slightly at the muzzle—and bullet No. .25720, 90.8 grains in weight 1 to 15 tin and lead, and No. 1 1/2 U. M. C. black powder primer, shot groups averaging 1 inch horizontally by 1 1/2 inches vertically and gave average scores of 98 on the 1 inch bull at 50 yards. This was too much vertical deviation.
All bullets sized base first to .257 from a cast size of .259. All bullets lubricated with Ideal banana lubricant. Sizing base first brings all marks made by the sizing punch to the point of the bullet and by inserting the shell in the rifle so that this small mark is always in one position the groups can be made much smaller than by loading “any old way."
I could not obtain F.F.F.G. black powder, so I used 2 grains by weight of Du Pont's F.F.G. black powder for a priming charge, followed by 9 grains by weight of Du Pont Schuetzen and l to 15 90.8 grain bullets. This load is the most uniformly accurate of any I have used with cast bullets. It is also a hard hitting load for this caliber. I shot a 50-shot score with this load at 50 yards on the 1-inch bull, scoring 98, 99, 98, 98 and 99, or 492 out of 500. The first three groups were in the upper half of the target.
143925
Had they been sighted correctly I would have scored 100, 100, 100, 98 and 99, or a total of 497. All bullets seated 3 bands out of the shell so that the bullet is seated in the rifling before the explosion and is therefore much more accurate than a bullet delivered from a shell that is too small for the chamber—as is the case in factory loaded ammunition, and which must travel some distance before it hits the rifling as the bullet is seated too far in the shell.
143926
This is exactly the same principle used in the manufacture of the .22 long rifle cartridge, which is more accurate within its range than any other factory loaded cartridge using lead bullets.
With this article is shown the first group made with this load after sighting in, and a composite of the first 30 shots under perfect weather conditions. Try to equal these with factory loaded ammunition of this caliber using cast bullets, and then also try to keep your barrel clean afterwards and compare results. The smallest group I have obtained with factory loaded black powder and lead bullet ammunition in this rifle has been 3 1/2 inches and many of them are from 6 to 8 inches in diameter.
Bullets cast 1 to 20 and 1 to 25 were also tried. but were not so accurate. I also tried smaller powder charges; but lighter charges always gave greater vertical deviation.
I used cast-off oak railroad ties for a backstop and found that this load would nearly always shoot through one tie. These ties were still hard and in good shape.
A load of 2 grains FFG and 9 1/2 grains of Schuetzen was next tried with the 1 to 15 bullet. Shells must be tapped considerably to get this load in the shell. This load tore up things rather lively behind the backstop, but gave groups about 40% larger than the 2 and 9 load. This load also shot very clean. The best group obtained is shown.
METAL-CASED BULLETS
Winchester full metal-cased 86-grain bullets were tried with 8.5- and 9-grain charges of Schuetzen and did well. I next tried 8 and 9 grains of Schuetzen on top of 3-grain priming charges of F.F.G. black. The 3 of black and 8 of Schuetzen is very accurate, 3 of black and 9 of Schuetzen is if anything still more accurate. and very powerful. The first 10—shot group with each of these loads is shown. This 3 and 9 load with the full metal-cased bullet in every case shot clear through two oak railroad ties at 50 yards and so far into a dirt bank that I could not recover any. The shells stuck somewhat with the heavier load and primers were flattened some, but none pierced. Report is very sharp. I next tried 10 grains of Schuetzen on top of 3 of black. Bullet had to be forced in, but one shot showed pressures running up too much to be safe. All bullets seated about one third way into the shell.
Now here is where the rub comes in. The barrel I was using was what is known as a “smokeless steel" barrel. This barrel is none too hard and the first few shots with metal-cased bullets showed very slight erosion of the lands just in front of the chamber. This erosion did not seem to progress very much with subsequent shooting. The barrel now oddly enough seems to shoot even more accurately than it did!
The Stevens Company does not at present, and states that it never did, make barrels adapted to metal-cased bullets in this caliber; it also states that it does not make barrels that it recommends for use with smokeless powder in any caliber in its single-shot rifles, making the excuse that black, semi-smokeless and Lesmok are better. However, they charged $3.00 extra for this so—called special smokeless steel barrel which apparently shows scratches just as easily as other Stevens barrels, causing me to wonder what virtue it possesses that is worth the extra $3.00.
Mr. Niedner announces that he is prepared to fit .25-21- or .25-20-caliber nickel steel barrels to Winchester or Stevens actions for $20.00 each, which will make a new rifle cost $25.00 to $30.00. Every rifle crank, so called, knows the quality of the Niedner rifles, and this should make a very fine small game and target rifle with these loads.
The Winchester Repeating Arms Company will fit nickel steel barrels to their .25-20 rifles, and with about a grain less powder these same charges should do as well in these rifles as they did in mine.
I could not obtain King's Semi-smokeless or Hazard F.G. powder, but tried Du Pont FFG, and Du Pont F.G. black behind 1 to 25, 1 to 40 and 1 to 100 bullets. I tried loads of 20 to 21 grains by weight, the best results being obtained by using 20 1/2 grains of FG and the 1 to 100 bullet and having the barrel moistened but not very wet for each shot.
This load does well horizontally but is liable to string up and down, as it is hard to get the barrel moistened just the same every time and too much water caused trouble from stringing. Black powder and metal-cased bullets did not do well, as the dirtier the barrel got the farther the gun shot to the right, or to be exact in a clock wise direction, getting around to 5 o'clock from 9 in a 10-shot score.
Not satisfied with this, I tried 2 grains of Schuetzen as a priming charge and 17 grains by weight of FG black with the 1 to 25, 1 to 40 and 1 to 100 bullets, shooting dirty, dry cleaning for each shot, and cleaning with soft water and leaving the barrel moistened for each shot. This charge with the l to 100 bullet will usually hit a mark 1/2 inch wide at 50 yards, but it is liable to string up and down considerable, as it is hard to get the barrel moistened the same every time.
143927
None of the loads shot equal to the 2 of FFG and 9 of Schuetzen. The black powder loads would usually commence to drift after about the third shot and cleaning for each shot was a confounded nuisance, not to mention the fact that the first shot from a cold, dirty bore fouled with black powder was usually a wild one.
Shooting under perfect weather conditions, this 2 and 9 load with the 1 to 15 lead bullet will seldom do worse than 99 at 50 yards with the right man on the job, shooting from the prone position from a padded rest. This padded rest should be about eight to twelve inches high and can be made in ten minutes from an old burlap bag and three boards or fence palings. It is not as scientific as a machine rest, but you can make one any old place without cost and do it in a few minutes.
The first shot from this 2 and 9 load from a clean barrel that is not oiled, will nearly always print between 3 and 5 o’clock on the edge of the bull—if the rifle is sighted to hit the center—and must be allowed for; otherwise one is liable to start off with a 9. It is important to remember this fact.
THE COST
The cartridges loaded with lead bullets cost, counting coal used and gas for light, loading in the evenings, with lead at .09 per pound and tin .60 and powder .50 per can, about $6.00 per thousand cartridges. Factory loaded cartridges cost from $20.09 per thousand on up to $23.50 per thousand and are not nearly so accurate. In all my experimenting I only had one group with hand loaded ammunition that was as poor as the very best with factory loaded ammunition, and the average was about 400% in favor of the home made ammunition. The shells, being straight taper, are very easily reloaded.
I have used a washing powder known as Amso, made by the Jewel Tea Company, for cleaning the shells and it does the work very well, but washing soda is apparently just as good, and is cheaper.
All powder charges were weighed on a scale accurate enough to record the addition of a single particle of F.G. black powder. It takes time to weigh the powder charges accurately and it takes time to make bullets correctly, but the results are worth it, to say nothing of the pleasure to be found in this interesting work.
Both the metal-cased and the 2 and 9 lead bullet loads have been used for hunting. Of course they are very satisfactory, due to their extreme accuracy, but they smash up things considerably; which was to be expected. Sharp-point bullets should cut out the tearing at these velocities and will be tried out later, along with the taking of the velocities of the best loads.
https://books.google.com/books?id=qXw7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA25&dq=casting+rifle+bullets&hl=en&sa=X&ei=djicVavlKoTBtQXL25jIBQ&ved=0CFYQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=casting%20rifle%20bullets&f=false
143922 143923 143924
2gr FFG, 9gr. Schuetz. CB - 2gr FFG, 9 1/2 gr Schuetz. CB - 3gr FFG, 9 gr Schuetz, MC
EXPERIMENTING WITH A .25-21 RIFLE
by C.S. Landis
THE purpose of this work was to secure a load or several of them that would be at the same time a very accurate target load and one suitable for game shooting, that would shoot accurately all day without cleaning, for hunting, and when nightfall came and the rifle was cleaned we could be sure it could be cleaned thoroughly with no danger of pitting afterwards. '
Inquiry among friends disclosed the fact that the combination of nitro primers and Sharpshooter powder had ruined barrels galore. In one case one crank had collected evidence of about 100 cases of ruined barrels in .25-20 and .25-21 calibers and in every case nitro primers had been used.
Several others were just as severe on Schuetzen powder; they claimed it had ruined their barrels in spite of the most careful cleaning. As a result I determined to use only black powder primers with a small priming charge of black powder and clean with stronger ammonia and see the result. I tested this method as severely as possible by hunting on days when there was a heavy fog and on one day when it rained all day long and the outside of the rifle was covered with fine rust; I had absolutely no rusting or pitting whatever. The inside of the barrel is like a mirror. What more could be desired?
The matter was presented to the Du Pont Powder Company for an opinion and they replied to the effect that “Schuetzen powder would not pit the barrel if it were cleaned with stronger ammonia, Niedner's firearms dope or Hoppe’s Nitro Powder Solvent No. 9 and oiled afterwards, but if cleaned in the good old black-powder way of water, rags and oil, trouble from pitting was occasionally reported.” This probably explained why some had their trouble from Schuetzen.
EXPERIMENTAL LOADS
Various loads of straight smokeless Schuetzen were tried behind hand-made Ideal bullets No. .25720, known as 86-grain weight, but which actually did weigh 90.8 to 92 grains each, depending on the alloy. Nine grains by weight of Schuetzen in U. M. C. shells expanded in the chamber of this particular rifle by previous firing—resized slightly at the muzzle—and bullet No. .25720, 90.8 grains in weight 1 to 15 tin and lead, and No. 1 1/2 U. M. C. black powder primer, shot groups averaging 1 inch horizontally by 1 1/2 inches vertically and gave average scores of 98 on the 1 inch bull at 50 yards. This was too much vertical deviation.
All bullets sized base first to .257 from a cast size of .259. All bullets lubricated with Ideal banana lubricant. Sizing base first brings all marks made by the sizing punch to the point of the bullet and by inserting the shell in the rifle so that this small mark is always in one position the groups can be made much smaller than by loading “any old way."
I could not obtain F.F.F.G. black powder, so I used 2 grains by weight of Du Pont's F.F.G. black powder for a priming charge, followed by 9 grains by weight of Du Pont Schuetzen and l to 15 90.8 grain bullets. This load is the most uniformly accurate of any I have used with cast bullets. It is also a hard hitting load for this caliber. I shot a 50-shot score with this load at 50 yards on the 1-inch bull, scoring 98, 99, 98, 98 and 99, or 492 out of 500. The first three groups were in the upper half of the target.
143925
Had they been sighted correctly I would have scored 100, 100, 100, 98 and 99, or a total of 497. All bullets seated 3 bands out of the shell so that the bullet is seated in the rifling before the explosion and is therefore much more accurate than a bullet delivered from a shell that is too small for the chamber—as is the case in factory loaded ammunition, and which must travel some distance before it hits the rifling as the bullet is seated too far in the shell.
143926
This is exactly the same principle used in the manufacture of the .22 long rifle cartridge, which is more accurate within its range than any other factory loaded cartridge using lead bullets.
With this article is shown the first group made with this load after sighting in, and a composite of the first 30 shots under perfect weather conditions. Try to equal these with factory loaded ammunition of this caliber using cast bullets, and then also try to keep your barrel clean afterwards and compare results. The smallest group I have obtained with factory loaded black powder and lead bullet ammunition in this rifle has been 3 1/2 inches and many of them are from 6 to 8 inches in diameter.
Bullets cast 1 to 20 and 1 to 25 were also tried. but were not so accurate. I also tried smaller powder charges; but lighter charges always gave greater vertical deviation.
I used cast-off oak railroad ties for a backstop and found that this load would nearly always shoot through one tie. These ties were still hard and in good shape.
A load of 2 grains FFG and 9 1/2 grains of Schuetzen was next tried with the 1 to 15 bullet. Shells must be tapped considerably to get this load in the shell. This load tore up things rather lively behind the backstop, but gave groups about 40% larger than the 2 and 9 load. This load also shot very clean. The best group obtained is shown.
METAL-CASED BULLETS
Winchester full metal-cased 86-grain bullets were tried with 8.5- and 9-grain charges of Schuetzen and did well. I next tried 8 and 9 grains of Schuetzen on top of 3-grain priming charges of F.F.G. black. The 3 of black and 8 of Schuetzen is very accurate, 3 of black and 9 of Schuetzen is if anything still more accurate. and very powerful. The first 10—shot group with each of these loads is shown. This 3 and 9 load with the full metal-cased bullet in every case shot clear through two oak railroad ties at 50 yards and so far into a dirt bank that I could not recover any. The shells stuck somewhat with the heavier load and primers were flattened some, but none pierced. Report is very sharp. I next tried 10 grains of Schuetzen on top of 3 of black. Bullet had to be forced in, but one shot showed pressures running up too much to be safe. All bullets seated about one third way into the shell.
Now here is where the rub comes in. The barrel I was using was what is known as a “smokeless steel" barrel. This barrel is none too hard and the first few shots with metal-cased bullets showed very slight erosion of the lands just in front of the chamber. This erosion did not seem to progress very much with subsequent shooting. The barrel now oddly enough seems to shoot even more accurately than it did!
The Stevens Company does not at present, and states that it never did, make barrels adapted to metal-cased bullets in this caliber; it also states that it does not make barrels that it recommends for use with smokeless powder in any caliber in its single-shot rifles, making the excuse that black, semi-smokeless and Lesmok are better. However, they charged $3.00 extra for this so—called special smokeless steel barrel which apparently shows scratches just as easily as other Stevens barrels, causing me to wonder what virtue it possesses that is worth the extra $3.00.
Mr. Niedner announces that he is prepared to fit .25-21- or .25-20-caliber nickel steel barrels to Winchester or Stevens actions for $20.00 each, which will make a new rifle cost $25.00 to $30.00. Every rifle crank, so called, knows the quality of the Niedner rifles, and this should make a very fine small game and target rifle with these loads.
The Winchester Repeating Arms Company will fit nickel steel barrels to their .25-20 rifles, and with about a grain less powder these same charges should do as well in these rifles as they did in mine.
I could not obtain King's Semi-smokeless or Hazard F.G. powder, but tried Du Pont FFG, and Du Pont F.G. black behind 1 to 25, 1 to 40 and 1 to 100 bullets. I tried loads of 20 to 21 grains by weight, the best results being obtained by using 20 1/2 grains of FG and the 1 to 100 bullet and having the barrel moistened but not very wet for each shot.
This load does well horizontally but is liable to string up and down, as it is hard to get the barrel moistened just the same every time and too much water caused trouble from stringing. Black powder and metal-cased bullets did not do well, as the dirtier the barrel got the farther the gun shot to the right, or to be exact in a clock wise direction, getting around to 5 o'clock from 9 in a 10-shot score.
Not satisfied with this, I tried 2 grains of Schuetzen as a priming charge and 17 grains by weight of FG black with the 1 to 25, 1 to 40 and 1 to 100 bullets, shooting dirty, dry cleaning for each shot, and cleaning with soft water and leaving the barrel moistened for each shot. This charge with the l to 100 bullet will usually hit a mark 1/2 inch wide at 50 yards, but it is liable to string up and down considerable, as it is hard to get the barrel moistened the same every time.
143927
None of the loads shot equal to the 2 of FFG and 9 of Schuetzen. The black powder loads would usually commence to drift after about the third shot and cleaning for each shot was a confounded nuisance, not to mention the fact that the first shot from a cold, dirty bore fouled with black powder was usually a wild one.
Shooting under perfect weather conditions, this 2 and 9 load with the 1 to 15 lead bullet will seldom do worse than 99 at 50 yards with the right man on the job, shooting from the prone position from a padded rest. This padded rest should be about eight to twelve inches high and can be made in ten minutes from an old burlap bag and three boards or fence palings. It is not as scientific as a machine rest, but you can make one any old place without cost and do it in a few minutes.
The first shot from this 2 and 9 load from a clean barrel that is not oiled, will nearly always print between 3 and 5 o’clock on the edge of the bull—if the rifle is sighted to hit the center—and must be allowed for; otherwise one is liable to start off with a 9. It is important to remember this fact.
THE COST
The cartridges loaded with lead bullets cost, counting coal used and gas for light, loading in the evenings, with lead at .09 per pound and tin .60 and powder .50 per can, about $6.00 per thousand cartridges. Factory loaded cartridges cost from $20.09 per thousand on up to $23.50 per thousand and are not nearly so accurate. In all my experimenting I only had one group with hand loaded ammunition that was as poor as the very best with factory loaded ammunition, and the average was about 400% in favor of the home made ammunition. The shells, being straight taper, are very easily reloaded.
I have used a washing powder known as Amso, made by the Jewel Tea Company, for cleaning the shells and it does the work very well, but washing soda is apparently just as good, and is cheaper.
All powder charges were weighed on a scale accurate enough to record the addition of a single particle of F.G. black powder. It takes time to weigh the powder charges accurately and it takes time to make bullets correctly, but the results are worth it, to say nothing of the pleasure to be found in this interesting work.
Both the metal-cased and the 2 and 9 lead bullet loads have been used for hunting. Of course they are very satisfactory, due to their extreme accuracy, but they smash up things considerably; which was to be expected. Sharp-point bullets should cut out the tearing at these velocities and will be tried out later, along with the taking of the velocities of the best loads.