sks accuracy expectations

[Andy]

Recently shot a '51 russian sks at the range off bags and couldn't do better than a 6-8" group at 100 yards no matter how careful I was, rifle entirely as issued. Probably did 10 5 shot groups to make sure it wasn't me getting used to the gun. What's a realistic accuracy expectation for this gun? Do I have a shooting problem or is this as good as it gets? It is all matching and the ammo was standard factory (norinco I think), 123 or 125 gr ammo.

If i start reloading for it can I keep absolute reliability and improve groups, or do you give up one for the other?

Also wondering about putting one of the quality peep sights available onto it. I don't want to scope it for obvious reasons but have always felt that I shoot much better with a peep than blade sights.

For what it is worth I shot a 2" group with the similar style iron sights on my m96 swede the same day right after this test so I know wind/my personal shooting that day wasn't much of a factor in the difference.


All I can say right now for the sks is it never fails to feed/fire a round...beyond that sure wish it shot better.

[Clark]

I get 5 or 6" groups with open sights and com block ammo with various SKSs.
If I put on a scope, glass bed, handload really good bullets, turn off the gas operation, and .... not much better.
I give up. Let SKSs be SKSs.

[Mk42gunner]

Andy, your accuracy results agree with my memories of firing ten round groups from the 1955 Russian SKS I had during the mid '90's. I also used the cheap imported (supposedly non-corrosive) Chinese ammo.

The funny thing was I could ring a gong (15 pound CO2 bottle) at ~200 yards about 80% of the time. Going from the 100 yard groups, I should have been in the 30% range????

I think Clark is right: Let SKSs be SKSs.

They are fun to shoot after all.

Robert

[wordsmith]

I went down the SKS accuracy road and finally gave up. I handloaded 123 gr Hornady 0.310 Soft Points designed for the SKS and they cut groups by more than half. Which is to say it went from terrible "groups" like yours (6-8") down to bonafide 3-4" groups at 100 yards. Whether that's worth it is up to the individual.

[GhostHawk]

I think a lot depends on the SKS in question, and just as much depends on the ammo.

Milsurp may be better than the Tulammo, wolf I've seen. But when I pulled some of those apart I quickly found that bullet weight varied significantly, and powder charges were often .6 tenths of a grain different and could be as much as a whole grain in spread.

Once I started shooting PPU and Red Army Standard the groups tightened up.

I ended up with a load quite different than the factory offerings.

Lee .312 185 gr gc, lubed with Ben's Red, over 20 grains of IMR 4895.
And suddenly I went from softball sized groups or larger at 50 to golfball sized or smaller.

Not that I expect MOA or anything resembling it from my SKS.
But at reasonable distances it is reasonably accurate, or at least mine is.
But I have it because it throws a LOT of lead down range very quickly. I do not expect it to be a tack driver.

Of course your mileage may vary. Perhaps mine is a fluke. Or perhaps you just didn't find what yours really likes?

[lotech]

I had a couple of these guns that I worked with extensively using cast and jacketed bullets some years back. As I recall, cast shot as well or maybe a little than jacketed with groups in the 3" range, some a little better. I had some steel-core surplus ammo, but don't remember how accurate that was. Considering the coarse sights, trigger, bedding, etc., these guns are reasonably accurate. Overall, however, it was easy to come to the conclusion that the SKS is a pretty crude firearm at best.

[nekshot]

I agree, just enjoy shootin it! In the last year I got a early chino and did alot of research and restocked it with proper bedding and it takes heavy cast and levr powder to get 1 1\2 to 2 inch 3 shot groubs with only a very select few loads. Mostly it is a 3 inch gun at 100. I kinda enjoy it but it is more fun shootin other guns that flat out shoot alot better. I also have a brandnew sks barrel on a carcano and it can do decent with jackets as in 2 -21\2 inch groubs at 100 but give it heavy cast with levr powder(Larry Gibson did a JR loads thread) it will shoot a little over 1 inch with a select few. The only jacket that will shoot real good is the hornady 32-160 gr ftx bullet swagged down to fit the neck of the carcano will shoot tight all the time but I don't have the money to blow those jackets down range!

[Andy]

Thanks for all the responses and information, good to see I'm not the only one. I suppose if handloads could get it to 3" groups that's a pretty significant improvement. I definitely don't expect the gun to be highly accurate, but an 8" group at 100 yards means you can't even reliably hit a target at 200 so that's too much of a spread to me.

[Yodogsandman]

Andy, these Tech Sights are nice on the SKS...

http://www.tech-sights.com/sks.htm

The front sight is too thick for fine shooting, check out a replacement for that, too.

http://www.tech-sights.com/access.htm

[6901]

I got 4" to 5" groups with my Yugo and Sapsan ammo.
However it took days to get out all the grease.

[Andy]

yodogsandman I have been to that site before and I really like the look of those peeps they offer. Seems like they make a quality product by the pictures. Have you used them personally, if so which model?

[Artful]

Yugo SKS off a bench with Silver Bear HP will keep the magazine on a 12 inch gong at 300 yds when my eyesight is working right.
Some of the other surplus ammo was lucky to keep it in 12 inches at 100 yards. Best advise
is check all the normal stuff so that you have nothing loose and bouncing around when it should be.
One thing is if you have the grenade cutoff you can turn it into a straight pull to eliminate some of
the elements that can cause issues. Try multiple kinds of surplus if that's what you want to shoot.
If you want to cast you should slug and match leade/bore.

[GhostHawk]

When I am at the range I do tend to turn the gas off and fire it single shot. Unless I just feel like wasting a box of Tulammo.

Then it is truly spray and pray and let the brass fly.

I was pretty much raised a shotgun guy, other than .22lr I really did not have a lot to do with them. The area I grew up in was all shotgun and slug for deer hunting. So I came to rifles late. I have to admit, I can see that in some situations I'd reach for the SKS first.
Whole lot of hurt for someone on the wrong end of that SKS, or several someones even. Not that I would ever WANT to do that.

Still, you do what you have to do to protect home and family.

[Yodogsandman]

yodogsandman I have been to that site before and I really like the look of those peeps they offer. Seems like they make a quality product by the pictures. Have you used them personally, if so which model?

I have the model TS100 mounted on one of my Yugo's. I figured that I could always adjust the front sight over for windage. I shot my best 50 yard group, 3/4" by using it concentrating on holding in the middle of the front blade sight. I definitely think a finer front sight is needed. The very next group was shot without regards to where I held on the front blade and measured 1/2" by 4", horizontally strung out. Both groups were with factory Wolf 123gr HP's.

I also have scopes mounted on both my Yugo's. They're UTG/Leapers bug buster 3x9x32's with mil-dot reticles, adjustable objectives, flip up covers and red/green lighted crosshairs. I've drilled and tapped my receivers for ProMag bases, a very solid base. The mounts are quick detachable and come with the scope. The detachable mounts are nice to remove the scope, for the rifle to fit in a hard case. This is a very short, compact scope and cases ejected will clear past the scope with no problem so, no shell deflector is needed. If you use a scope on these SKS's you'll need to put a pad on the cheek rest or use an aftermarket stock to align your eye high enough for use.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UTG-3-9X32-Compact-Bug-Buster-Rifle-Scope-R-G-illuminated-Mil-Dot-with-Rings-/290910955956?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43bba4e9b4

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/467746/promag-sks-picatinny-rail-scope-mount-steel

[Maven]

144199Here are results @ 50 yd. from an as issued Type 56 SKS and a NOE cast bullet. (I've since done better with Blue Dot and the same CB, but didn't photograph the target.)

[Larry Gibson]

My SKS is a Russian in excellent if not new condition when I got it. I have adjusted/modified the trigger to a decent 4 lb pull, bedded the action and modified the gas tube to ease ejection. I prefer the rifle to function as intended so my reloads with jacketed and cast bullets reliably function the action.

With milsurp ammo accuracy for 10 shots at 100 yards runs 4 - 5 moa normally. Foreign SP/HPs aren't usually any more accurate.

With my reloads using 110 - 125 gr bullets over 4227 (H or IMR) I equal the velocity and psi specs for the M43 cartridge with usually somewhat better accuracy in the 3 - 4+ moa. The IMI FMJ's seem to be the most accurate of the surplus bullets but are very hard to find these days. With the old original Hornady 123 gr SPs that were actually .311 my SKS was a consistent 2 moa performer. However, with the current .310 123 gr Hornady's and the .312 Sierra and Speer 125 gr SPs 2 - 3 moa is the norm. In cases using LR primers I use 22.5 gr 4227 under the 123 - 125 gr bullets which give 2340 - 2360 fps out of my SKS. That load gives less psi than the CIP Pmap for the 7.62x39 and is comparable to Wolf commercial and milsurp ammo. The psi's were measured with an Oehler M43 using a Mini Mk X as the test rifle.

With cast bullets I prefer the Lee C312-155-R cast of 95-2.5-2.5 alloy with the bullets WQ'd, sized .312, lubed with 50/50 lube with Hornady GCs. I load them over 27 gr H4895 for 1870 fps and excellent 2 - 3 moa accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[leadman]

The most accurate factory ammo I found is the Herter's 150gr SP.
I have a Norinco SKS that was new when I bought it and the groove diameter is over .313" so I shoot the Lee 160gr boolit designed for the 7.62 X 39 at .314". I have a cheap 4X mil-dot scope on it and can get 2" 100 yard groups most of the time.

[Adam Helmer]

Andy,

What ammunition were you shooting? Your groups were large, but was your ammo tuned to your SKS?. I have several SKS arms, and your 6-8 inches at 100 yards was BAD. My Worst SKS will do 2 inches at 100 yards with the 130 grain Lyman #311410 and IMR 4198. I suggest you try other ammo.

Adam

[waynem34]

All seems pretty good to me for what it was meant to do. If it will keep your head down while an advance is made than que sera sera. Some of the russian guns had numbers on the side if the rear site. 1 was the best. I have a 2 and it shoots ok.YMMV. Fit Is king.

[frnkeore]

I had a Norico SKS. It was the version that was being imported in the mid 90's, with a thumb hole stock, that took AK mags. It had a 16" bbl.

I bought Lapua ammo for it (300 rounds), at that time for the Boxer brass, since I'm a hand loader and that was the only way to get it.

It shot appox. 2.5" groups @ 100 yds, with Speer .311, FB spitzers, behind 25.0 gr of RX7, with F210 primers. The same load in my 20" AK, that I got later, by about two years, it would only do about 4" with the same load. BTW, the 20" barreled AK was called a sniper model LOL

I traded the SKS for a Savage 1899, but kept the AK, even though I rarely shoot it.

Frank

[sthwestvictoria]

Not my rifle however I saw this on the Firearm blog - 1MOA SKS:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG_20140920_182615_492.jpg
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/07/10/1moa-sks/

[waynem34]

Thats a sweet looking rifle.

[35remington]

He must have floated the scope somehow, as a scope mounted on the action cover, as most are, doesn't have a prayer of returning to the same place after each shot.

3-4 inches is pretty much reality with original barrels and best ammo in my guns, which happens to be the Ed Harris inspired Lee cast bullet.

[kens]

What if one happened to rebarrel a SKS to 6mmPPC ???

[Andy]

Thanks for all of the responses, especially larry and yodog, those were particularly informative. Larry that gives me a great benchmark for what to expect from handloads so thank you for that. Yodog I was thinking to do the smaller front sight if I went with those peeps and your post confirms that is probably worth it for the $6 it costs. It is well protected by the sight shroud so I can't see any harm in being smaller.

Adam this was out of the box norinco ammo from the 90's, it is not even marked for bullet grain weight so who knows on that but it was listed as lead core and made in beijing on the (grey rectangular not the little square boxes) box with a foam insert for the bullets like most US ammo. I had some FMJ and some HP and both shot the same (didn't intermix within groups of course though).

[Shooter6br]

Loaded some 200 grain (314299 Accurate clone) gas checked with H322 (20 grains) max listed at 22.8. OAL 2.15. Load is close to 90% volume. Shot indoor range at 15 yrds. Action function without a hiccup. Velocity approx 1700 fps ( I need to chronograph) Peep sites. bottom group last. Got info for load on this site.(Chinese SKS)
http://www.spokaneguntrader.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=16366