Rifle & accuracy

[beefyz]

Possibly a bad title, but a general question regarding shooting &/in a rifle. I have read about/seen many times those that say one needs to shoot a few rounds through the bore to 'warm it up' before you set out to do some serious shooting. Gun is a lever 30-30, and using 165 cast in what appears to be a very good load. Fired a slow & steady 12 rounds into a 1.25 grouping @ 7oclock. Barrel was warm. I did not adjust sights as I had only 15 rds left. Fired those nice and steady, with barrel now hot and all shot to 7oclock but now those 15 went to 3-4" grouping all around those that had been previously shot. It has always been my impression that as a barrel warmed it shot better. For those that may be thinking it, barrel was cleaned immediately and there were no indications of leading. Would hate to lose this load. Does this make sense ? What could make a tight group open up into a larger group so fast.

[kungfustyle]

I had a lever gun that was Sybil, crazier than the day is long. Took about 10 rounds to get her foulded up but then would shoot about a 2" group all day. Secret is to get the fouling shots, let it cool down and then have at it again for about 5 shots, repeat. The barrel band behaves differently as the barrel heats up. Keep it fouled and cool and you can shoot all day.

[knfmn]

Fired those nice and steady, with barrel now hot and all shot to 7oclock but now those 15 went to 3-4" grouping all around those that had been previously shot. It has always been my impression that as a barrel warmed it shot better.

Some rifles do shoot better when they're a little warm, but I haven't encountered one that does its best when *hot*.

It's already been said, but a few fouling shots, let it cool and then shoot for groups. With a lever action, I'm guessing you might want to do some hunting with it? It would have to be the toughest deer in the world if it took you 15 shots rapid fire to harvest it. :D

[runfiverun]

stop cleaning the barrel, it takes about 7-8 shots to get lube to the muzzle.

now when the rifle sits, the lube is gonna change and your first shot has to fix this condition.
sometimes this condition sets in in 20 minutes and sometimes it takes a couple of days.
but it happens, and when it does that first shot is gonna go high.

we call it the C.O.R.E. condition.

the exact opposite happens when you get the barrel hot, the lube can get too wet and cause groups to open.
it might not be just the lube it can also be the rifle but the rifle usually doesn't make nice round groups.
it usually wanders off at a 45* angle.

[castalott]

I remember the story of an Indian shooting a 39a. The group at 100 was incredible. He said he shot one round each morning and that was all.

A lot of food for thought in this.....

[44man]

I have shot my Remlin 30-30 to HOT without a change. Only thing I found is don't rest the forearm on a bag. Use your hand under it. I have the book that tells how to make them accurate, took the gun down and it is fine, no way I will fool with the extreme junk.
The most accurate .22 I ever owned was a 39A Mounty. It would do 5 shots in 3/4" at 100. I want that gun to come back.
I do not believe in barrel "seasoning", never did.

[northmn]

We used to use fouling shots in muzzle loading matches and they would tend to settle down a bit after fouling. Chronographed a few loads in a couple of them and the clean barrel shot tended to be a little lower velocity. After a point the crud build up seemed to stabilize. Often pitted barrels would shoot after fouling shots as the pits tended to get filled in. in a good barrel using smokeless powder fouling shots should not be so critical. I remember debates as to cleaning 22 barrels. Many said the best accuracy is obtained by not cleaning them that the lube build up protects the barrel anyway. Another debate occurs around cast bullets. Totally clean the barrel and do not shoot jacketed in them. When I played with old military rifles some of the copper fouling did need to be removed to help with accuracy with cast, but those were due to older bullets. In the end one has to do what works for that particular rifle. I have a 38-55 that just does not like Lee Liquid Alox. Other rifles do fine with it.
DEP

[robg]

as per 44man rest fore end in your hand not on bag get my best groups with my win that way

[John Taylor]

Lever guns are a strange bread. As you shoot the magazine gets lighter and can change the way the gun shoots, then reload and the mag is heavy again changing the vibrations. Also as the barrel heats up it expands and depending on how the mag is attached it can pull the barrel a little. None of the events are known to help accuracy.

[44man]

Now when I shot IHMSA if I cleaned the gun I would miss the first shot so I was done for the match, need 40 hits and 39 does not buy it. But no matter what, it took ONE shot ONLY. I lived in the city and could not fire a shot. It would not happen at a shoot either. You went on the line with a clean gun, it was over with a miss on the first chicken even if you hit all the rest. If you need 20 shots to settle, what would be your score? I could shoot a 40 if I did not clean the .44 no matter the time.
I have made hundreds of lube tests going from one to another and never need the stupid "seasoning"

[beefyz]

Thanks for the replies... just a bit more info. Gun is a Winny commemorative "Canadian", was new oob, 24" octagonal barrel. I've put abt 100 rds through it. Seems to be most accurate rifle I've ever shot. During this "test", it was taken out having been previously cleaned. The first 12 shots were fired & grouped as stated. Then the next 25 were fired with results as stated. I did not clean barrel during shoot; cleaned it afterwards with no signs of leading. I shot off a bench but with hand balancing forestock. I did not magazine feed; single loaded each round & fired with deliberation.
"The barrel band behaves differently as the barrel heats up"....... I guess I was hinting as to a possible explanation ? This then is possible in ALL rifles/guns ? AS barrel heats pattern/groupings would be expected/might change, correct ?

"the exact opposite happens when you get the barrel hot, the lube can get too wet and cause groups to open.it might not be just the lube it can also be the rifle but the rifle usually doesn't make nice round groups."............. This is exactly what I did. I mean I couldn't cook an egg off it, but there was a BIG difference between the barrel after 12 shots & then after 25 shots; it was obviously "hotter".

"I remember the story of an Indian shooting a 39a. The group at 100 was incredible. He said he shot one round each morning and that was all." Hmmmm, possible solution, but gives a new meaning to "range time".


All in all, an interesting discussion, thanks.
z