NOE expander plugs/general discussion

[Boolseye]

I was very happy to learn of the plugs Al has started producing, and wish to hear from others about the applications they've found for them, recommendation for certain bullet sizes etc. I'm about to order several and haven't seen a lot of discussion in my searches. To me, they are something of a revelation, and "open up" a lot of possibilities. Please, weigh in with your experience!

Will the 30LR (.311) work for 300 Blackout and .308 as well as 30-30? All boolits sized .309" or .311"
how about the 318RC (.318") for a Mosin Nagant that shoots a .315" slug?

[jugulater]

i would think you need a expander to open the case up to .310 to fit a .311 slug, that way you have neck tension to hold the boolit it place. may even need a .309 for a .311, im not really sure.

i feel certain a .315 boolit would simply pass through a neck expanded to .318.

[Cowboy_Dan]

i would think you need a expander to open the case up to .310 to fit a .311 slug, that way you have neck tension to hold the boolit it place. may even need a .309 for a .311, im not really sure.

i feel certain a .315 boolit would simply pass through a neck expanded to .318.

I have a few of these. Before I ordered them, I talked to someone at NOE and h3 suggested that I get a nominal diameter of .001" larger than my boolit size. The nominal size refers to the wider flare step, with the lower shank being, IIRC, .003" under that diameter.

As to the .30-30 one working on a .308 or .300 Black, I don't see why not. All that would happen is that the shank would extend below the neck. I do the same thing using the one for my Mosin on .30 Tokarev as well. No ill effects yet from that practice, but I've only done 25 rounds that way so far. For your Mosin, I would get one at .316".

[Boolseye]

roger all that. That .318" is the second step, the main shank is .314"
likewise, .311 is the second step of the 30LR, the shank being .307", if memory serves.

[lancem]

Got the 30LR for loading 06 for my Garand, works great. I use it for 308 also.

[Boolseye]

Has anyone had chambering, seating or other issues using plugs with a primary shank diameter .001" less than or the same as boolit diameter? I notice some go that route, others go .002-.003" under boolit diameter. Probably just go for it and see how they fly, can't go wrong for 6.50 each.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I was very happy to learn of the plugs Al has started producing, and wish to hear from others about the applications they've found for them, recommendation for certain bullet sizes etc. I'm about to order several and haven't seen a lot of discussion in my searches. To me, they are something of a revelation, and "open up" a lot of possibilities. Please, weigh in with your experience!

Will the 30LR (.311) work for 300 Blackout and .308 as well as 30-30? All boolits sized .309" or .311"
how about the 318RC (.318") for a Mosin Nagant that shoots a .315" slug?
Yes, I agree.
when I started reloading, I began using Lee dies (designed for J-words), they worked great, they even worked fine for the commercial 'hard cast' bullets. But when I started loading with my own cast boolits (not nearly as hard), I learned I had problems. I won't go into all that, as many of us found these problems. While, I should have ungraded my dies to the RCBS cowboy or a Lyman set with 'M' Die ...My solution was to make my own expander plugs for the Lee universal flare die, more specifically I was modifying plugs that I bought from Track of the wolf ($2.99 each), they only offer sizes for the unique BPCR calibers. I'd just buy the next larger size, that I'd need and redneck machine them smaller with a file and a drill press. I wrecked a few, but mostly I was successful, but I could never get the 'flare' at the end of the expansion area just right. So Yes, I was extremely happy when Al started offering them in all the sizes that he does ...for a very economical price.

[Boolseye]

I've been making do with the Lyman multi-expander die (same concept as the m-dies, in a powder-through body with multiple plugs) and a hodge-podge of modified mandrels, standard dies etc. These will be a welcome addition to the set-up.

[gloob]

Has anyone had chambering, seating or other issues using plugs with a primary shank diameter .001" less than or the same as boolit diameter?
Some will disagree with me.

I firmly believe the optimum size depends on the sizing die. If your size die is "neck sizing" the cases just down to the right size to start with, an expander will just set the case by relieving internal stresses left from the sizing die, thereby reducing neck tension. In this case, you would be better off using a 2-3 mil undersized plug or even just a Lee Universal Flare die, if you want to retain maximum neck tension.

If your sizing die is tight enough to make the brass decidedly too small, then a plug the same diameter of the bullet cannot reduce neck tension, and any less will leave more work to the bullet, thereby increasing the likelihood/amount of case swaging. With a tight sizing die, a full bullet diameter plug will give pretty much 100% full neck tension. (Bullet is easier to seat but is just as hard to pull and/or setback).

I use full diameter expanders in the calibers I need them, the same diameter as the bullet. I use regular undersized (flare) dies for the calibers I do not.

Without knowing your size die and brass, the only safe recommendation one can give you is to go 2-3 mils undersize. If NOE or LEE or RCBS goes around and starts trying to explain this to the masses, they will have customers with setback issues and possible injuries. 2 mils under will never reduce what neck tension you start with, and it will open up a case enough to seat a jacketed or a harder cast bullet, at least. So a 2-3 mil expander is optimal in the majority of cases and inadequate (but safe) in others. An oversize plug is not as commonly needed, but if a larger plug is necessary, a full diameter plug is usually going to be kinder to your boolits than a minus 1-3 plug, IMO.

If this is gibberish to you, then stick with a minus 2 plug. It is to do with the elastic vs inelastic boundaries of the brass alloy in the case. A regular or loose size die will form the brass to within the elastic boundary to fit the bullet, to begin with. A tight die will leave the case so small that it is beyond the elastic boundary, and the plug/bullet will have to move the inelastic boundary, requiring greater force. In this latter case, the only way to completely remove this burden from the bullet is to use a plug that is at least equal diameter as the bullet.

[Boolseye]

Gloob: I get it. thanks for that very clear explanation. That is exactly the kind of insight I'm looking for–contrasting opinions also welcome.