expanding brass for lead boolit..with a twist.

[hpdrifter]

I've been reloading for a few years and I've reloaded some pistol ammo with lead boolits, but i'm really a neophyte in the land of galena.

I read "expanding brass for lead bullets" by willoughbe and the responses.

I recently had a Winchester AE bored by JES to 38-55. Wasn't too elated at the results, but I'm coming around. It seems to shoot just fine, with the few rounds I have thru it.

I did some of the measuring mentioned in the above stated thread. Here are the parameters of the question:

I have 2.125" Starline brass. I sized the new cases and they were .390 before boolit insertion. Inserted .376 boolits of some unknown hardness; bought from local gunshop. Upon insertion the case at the boolit measured .392 with a ridge around base of boolit in case. After firing the casing measures .395 and the same lead boolit(fresh one) will not enter into the casing. A .375 jacketed bullet will enter, with a little coaxing.

I'm thinking about just flaring a fired case, unsized, and loading it to see if it will chamber alright. The case will fit sans boolit. Some Winchester brass that loaded measured about the same as the Starline, although I didn't measure one that was loaded. The boolit still doesn't enter the Winchester.

Can this practice be used for lever action rifles? Will I run into problems of chambering without resizing? Seems like the case is already about the right size.

I'm pretty sure the boolit got sized during the loading process, but I saw hardly any signs of leading after about 10 shots. Just specs came out upon cleaning and they were very few.

By the way, JES says the bore is .375. I have not slugged it. Not worried about the boolit fit at this particular moment. Just trying to get the brass correct.

Here's a target from today; 50 yards off my hind legs over a tree branch with peep sights:
143765
The four larger holes around the peripherie are some 44 mag that I also shot from the same place with my Ruger Hunter. The six around the heart are the 3855 with the low one at 4:00 was called as bad to begin with, my fault.

Here's the rifle:143767143769

Forgot; 27.5 grains of 3031, Winchester Primer, 255 gr Lead.

[jugulater]

the old stories of buffalo hunters say they never resized the cases, not sure how true the stories are. but if it worked for them then it should work now.

one important thing, i dont think you will have enough neck tension to use the magazine without the boolits being pushed in the case ( something buffalo hunters didn't have to worry about because they used single shots)

[bangerjim]

If you PC your boolits you will NOT see leading at all. If your boolits are sized correctly, you should not have any leading.

I size ALL my rounds for levers, singles, revolvers and semi's. As said, if neck tension is not watched, your boolits ccould/will be pushed back into the case by your rifle ammo tube.

Why NOT size? So easy and is just part of the normal casting/reloading procedure. I use the Lee Universal Expansion die for all my rifle loads. The rifle collet crimp die then brings the case back into size and imparts correct neck tension......IF......IF you have it adjusted correctly!

banger

[gloob]

If you have a roll crimp groove on your bullets, I would definitely give it a try with a good roll crimp.

But really, you're skipping a step. You could pull some bullets and put calipers on them, first, to see if there's a problem at all. Measure all the way around the base. Measuring fired cases and trying to fit a bullet is kinda indirect.

[hpdrifter]

the old stories of buffalo hunters say they never resized the cases, not sure how true the stories are. but if it worked for them then it should work now. One of the reasons for this question, except it is a magazine fed action.


one important thing, i dont think you will have enough neck tension to use the magazine without the boolits being pushed in the case ( something buffalo hunters didn't have to worry about because they used single shots)

I will have to flare the case neck for the bullets to be pushed in, they will NOT enter without a flare. There should be a couple of thousands of neck tension already there. My main question; should that be enough???


If you PC your boolits you will NOT see leading at all. If your boolits are sized correctly, you should not have any leading.

I size ALL my rounds for levers, singles, revolvers and semi's. As said, if neck tension is not watched, your boolits ccould/will be pushed back into the case by your rifle ammo tube.

Why NOT size? So easy and is just part of the normal casting/reloading procedure. I use the Lee Universal Expansion die for all my rifle loads. The rifle collet crimp die then brings the case back into size and imparts correct neck tension......IF......IF you have it adjusted correctly!

banger
Why should I work the brass more than I have to. The case seems like it is already a couple of thousandths too small for the bullet.
The collet crimp will not work with the 2.125 brass without special shimming


If you have a roll crimp groove on your bullets, I would definitely give it a try with a good roll crimp.

But really, you're skipping a step. You could pull some bullets and put calipers on them, first, to see if there's a problem at all. Measure all the way around the base. Measuring fired cases and trying to fit a bullet is kinda indirect.

Well, I pulled a couple of loaded bullets and there seems to be no swaging of the bullets. But my main question is is there a real reason to resize the brass if there seems to be a couple of thousands of neck tension and a crimp groove and will the lack of resizing probably create problems with loading the chamber even tho there seems to be no issue at this point??? Why overwork the brass? resize then expand with the bullet and have a bulging cartridge; excessively.

[runfiverun]

.002 neck tension is enough.

[bangerjim]

Why should I work the brass more than I have to. The case seems like it is already a couple of thousandths too small for the bullet.
The collet crimp will not work with the 2.125 brass without special shimming



If you already knew the answer, why did you ask?

banger

[hpdrifter]

If you already knew the answer, why did you ask?

banger

"seems" jim "seems"

Just because I THINK I know the answer, doesn't mean it IS the answer

Haven't you ever thought you knew the answer but just wasn't quite sure.

Besides, I was hoping for some conversation and more insight.

Oh, well.

[stubbicatt]

Sounds to me like your chamber has been perfectly cut for the components you are using. Congratulations!

[hpdrifter]

Sounds to me like your chamber has been perfectly cut for the components you are using. Congratulations!

I do believe the chamber is fine. The 30-30 chamber is was cut from still has remnants of the back edge(closest to rim) of the taper. I mean just a smidgen.

The brass was all I was trying to work on. I wanted to NOT overwork it. 38-55 is not hard to come by, but it sure isn't one of the most stocked cartridges either and the trouble to find them is sometimes daunting.

I decided my Lee full length sizer was expendable; I opened it up with medium grit emery cloth and polished it with up to 1500 grit wet/dry.

Now, resizing is just enough to keep from having a "bulge" on the cartridge where the base of the bullet resides.

[Motor]

Neck tension plays a major role in keeping your boolits where they belong. If you were shooting a single shot I wouldn't be posting. If you do decide to load without sizing I suggest you load your tube magazine and do some testing to see if they are all staying where you seated them. Down to the last one.

I don't know why you are worrying about over working your brass. That type of brass typically lasts many cycles especially shooting relatively low pressure cast loads.

Motor

[Wayne Smith]

Agreed with Motor, but I would go further. I would fire a full magazine and check the last two bullets. There you have the effects of both the magazine spring and recoil to see if you have adequate neck tension or if you need a crimp.

[hpdrifter]

I did decide to resize, but I also opened up my sizing die. On top of the brass working issue, I have also read where tight brass will/can size the lead boolits down so it doesn't fit bore size anymore.

I am going to try 3 loaded rounds fired with two dumby rounds at the front of the mag tube to see if any set back occurs.

[gloob]

In my experience with semiautomatic rifles shooting GC'd cast bullets, the roll crimp is much more effective at preventing setback than neck tension.