Help me make my 35 Rem shoot

[sfauble]

I recently purchased a 1979 Marlin 336 in 35 Remington. After getting some brass from Grumpa and ordering a mold from Accurate Molds I proceeded to start loading for this rifle. The mold I got is 4 cavity, 2 cavities drop the RCBS clone of 200-fn that drop at 212 and the other 2 are a clone of the Ranchdog that drop at 197. Both drop at .360 . I powder coat all my bullets for all my rifles and attach Hornady gas checks.

I have only been able to get one load to be accurate enough to please me. With the Grumpa brass made from LC 308 brass I had to come up with my own loads. My best and only accurate load so far is the 200-fn powder coated, gas check and water quenched from the toaster oven. I have these sized at .358 and also .360 with a push through sizer from lee. All dressed up they weigh 218 gr. 39 gr LVR powder seated right at the lands running 2175 fps. The accuracy is the same either size at right at 2" at 100 yds. Now I am happy with this load and can use it. This is a repeatable 5 shot group.

Here is my problem. This is the only load that is accurate. After playing around with both bullets and LVR and H4895 powders, speeds from 1800 fps to 2300 fps the above load is the only load that is acceptable. All other loads with either bullet average 3''-6" at 100 yds. So while trying to figure this out I have found some issues. Below are some pictures.

Every load is stripping lead when fired. I have never seen this. Also almost all bullets of either cast seem to be entering the rifling crooked. I seat both bullets so they just touch the rifling. The gas check is already below the neck of the case and I don't really like that. What could be causing the bullet to enter crooked as it is. I am pretty new to casting and shooting lead but I am confident these are causing me to lose accuracy even though my above accurate load also enters crooked and strips lead. Please take a look at the pics and send some ideas my way.1436941436951436961436971436981436991437001437 01143702 The last three pictures are my dummy rounds to set seating depth. These are actually straight but I put them in there to show where the rifling is in relation to seating depth and no throat.

[jcren]

Semi blind guess, but I have a 45acp that does the same thing with .453 tc style bullets due to a "square" lead. I can size then smaller or shoot a different style bullet with no problems. Suggest a slug and pound cast to get a better idea of the interna dimensions you are working with.

[scottfire1957]

Is one good load not enough?

[altheating]

Have you tried jacketed bullets in that rifle to see if it will shoot them accurately? I wouldn't expect it to shoot cast any better than it will shoot jacketed. Try slowing them down a bit. My 35 rem shoots best at about 1700 fps with the RCBS 200. You can shoot it all day with no leading. Try lubing a few by hand with some quality lube and size them and shoot. See if the beeswax based lube works better than the PC.

[Yodogsandman]

Are the lead rings shaved when seating the boolits or when entering the chamber?

Assuming seating, are you belling the mouth of the case enough to prevent shaving?

Is the 35 Rem brass made from military LC 308 brass thicker in the neck than commercial 35 Rem brass?

Are you trimming the case length to enable you to crimp in the crimp groove?

Are you chamfering the case mouth?

It's not unusual for one boolit design to shoot better than another.

PC thickness cannot be applied consistently and using lube will be more accurate. PC is increasing the size of your noses. Your dummy rounds show the lead noses are entering straight. Are the crooked ones just the PC'd ones? You could try not PC'ing the noses by covering them some how during ESPC application.

[dead dog]

Do you use a m die before seating? It helped a lot with my 32 .

[BK7saum]

2nd on m die or other type of expander. The expander ball in a full length die is not cast boolit friendly.

[sfauble]

The lead rings are happening when shooting. You can chamber them and eject them with no ring. The rings are there when ejecting the fired case. I use a lee expander die for belling the case mouth. The cases are probably thicker since I do have to reduce the charges around 5 gr. I did not trim the cases to crimp in groove. I use a light crimp on the forward band of the rcbs and just forward on the ranchdog. I use a lee factory crimp die.

I had to pull 15 rounds after the first range trip since I didn't know what charges to use. I didn't reduce enough and had some pretty hot loads. The pulled bullets looked good with no shaving of the coating. They were also very hard to chamber so I seated them a little deeper and now the gas check is just below the neck. Originally they were just in the base of the neck. They chamber with just a little resistance of the lever.

I may have to try some regular lube and see if it makes a difference. I use the powder coating because it does not smoke. I don't really care for the smoke.

I did shoot a box of leverevolution that came with it when I got it. They would shoot about 3.5" at 100. These where my first shots with this gun. The gun looks almost brand new and I don't know if it has been shot much more than that.

The rings are making me more curious than anything. I had to put some time into making some accurate loads for my savage 308 and my old savage 340 30-30. They responded more clearly to changes. This 35 just seems more erratic in behavior to changes.

[35remington]

Have you the ability to measure runout to see if this is a possible verification of your claim of crookedness? Marlin chambers can be generous and mine will accept a bullet of up to .362."

The lead shaving also can be a possible consequence of using the factory crimp die. Being a ring crimp, it does not open up while the bullet is moving. Try no crimp and single load or a roll crimp instead to isolate causes.

[Yodogsandman]

Try no crimp at all and single load, just to see if it's the crimp that causes the rings. If it is, trim the cases to the crimp groove and lightly crimp there. Be sure the case length isn't too long and you chamfer the mouths.

Consider getting a NOE expander plug for your Lee Universal Expander.

Don't worry too much about where your GC is in the case. I would seat so there was no resistance on the lever at all. You might be able to make your nose smaller, allowing you to seat out further by adjusting your alloy. Using less antimony will reduce the size, just slightly.

For an easy to use lube, try Ben's Liquid Lube (BLL). Last week I shot it in my 7.62x51 to about 2500 FPS (est) with very little smoke. With barely any breeze, I only noticed just a wisp of smoke.

[sfauble]

Too much info to put into original post so ill answer as they come up. I don't have a way of checking run out so I haven't other than roll on the table. I also made up 5 of each bullet with no crimp, just removing the bell. I got the same shaving when shot. All have been shot single. I did check to make sure they would cycle and they do with no issue.

I don't have a bore scope so I can't see the chamber well, but from what I can see it looks like it's square where the rifling starts. I will trim the brass on the next batch to the crimp groove to see if it helps.

[44man]

Check fired brass to see if there is any crimp left. It looks like boolits are too soft and the crimp is peeling a ring off. Boolits might be slumping.

[altheating]

Yup, I would try crimping in the crimp groove, not on the driving band. Trim the brass to allow crimping in the band.

[Yodogsandman]

Where do you find the rings?

Any shaving that's inside the case would be blown out when fired.

[bhn22]

I kind of suspect that the rifle could use a slight throating job. I'm wondering if there is a sharp edge at the origin of the throat cut that is rather uniformly shearing off the rings you're seeing. It's certainly cutting neat, really consistent rings with each firing.

[sfauble]

The rings are coming out with the case after firing. Some fall off but I raise the rifle and eject towards the shooting bench and they come out with the case. I tried ejecting slowly to see if they are on the end of the case but if I do they fall off in the chamber, so not completely sure. I will lube some this week and try lube next weekend but I'm sure they will still cut a ring.

Just a thought on the accuracy. My savage 308 bought new a few months ago shot lead for poo when new. Even jacketed was mediocre at first. I want to be able to shoot both from that rifle. So after frustration with lead I started working on jacketed loads. After developing some 165 and 150 gr loads, approx 200 total rounds I went back to lead. It was like night and day difference. I have a 180 gr load that will now shoot 10 shot groups of 3" at 200 yds. Is it possible this rifle needs the same treatment? I kinda hope not. I had no plans for jacketed from this rifle.

[Litl Red 3991]

Just a guess but could the alloy be too soft. When fired, they slump and fill in the leade ahead of the case mouth. That gets stripped when fired, but doesn't happen when the cartridges are just cycled.

The most recent Lee loading manual has a writeup about accuracy being a function of pressure versus hardness. Think it's online too.

[Litl Red 3991]

The rings are coming out with the case after firing. Some fall off but I raise the rifle and eject towards the shooting bench and they come out with the case. I tried ejecting slowly to see if they are on the end of the case but if I do they fall off in the chamber, so not completely sure. I will lube some this week and try lube next weekend but I'm sure they will still cut a ring.

Just a thought on the accuracy. My savage 308 bought new a few months ago shot lead for poo when new. Even jacketed was mediocre at first. I want to be able to shoot both from that rifle. So after frustration with lead I started working on jacketed loads. After developing some 165 and 150 gr loads, approx 200 total rounds I went back to lead. It was like night and day difference. I have a 180 gr load that will now shoot 10 shot groups of 3" at 200 yds. Is it possible this rifle needs the same treatment? I kinda hope not. I had no plans for jacketed from this rifle.

More than one new rifle has shot lead better after a short time shooting jacketed. In fact, more than one has shot lead better after shooting lead for awhile. So that could be one reason.

The other reason might be the first lead loads were a different velocity/pressure than the later ones that shot better. Or the alloy was different from one batch to the other.

The reason Lee was mentioned is because I've been using their pressure:hardness chart since finding it and it appears to be working as far as I've tested it.

[35remington]

I find shooting jacketed first often eases the abrupt transition angles in the throat and the start of the rifling, enabling, I presume, the ability to shoot lead more accurately.

Heck, shooting jacketed first isn't so bad....save for the cost.

When running down causes, but sure to try one improvement at a time or you'll never know which improvement made the difference.

[sfauble]

I wouldn't think it's too soft. It's the same alloy I use for my .30 calls. Same treatment. Cast, size with gas check, shake and bake pc, bake and drop into ice water from oven. I have run these at 2550 fps from .308 with no issues, just the accuracy has fallen off. I know the bullets are different but I get good accuracy and no leading with this alloy prepped this way from 1200 fps - 2300 fps in both 308 and 30-30.

[sfauble]

I really appreciate the help from you folks. I am heading to the range shortly today to sight my scope back in after putting a new mount on my 340. I have a few more rounds loaded up for the 35 that I didn't shoot yet. I will load a few more of the one good load just to finish out on a good note.

I have 100 ftx that I got with the rifle. I may shoot them through it just to see if there is an improvement. Didn't want to do that in case I sold the rifle.

[rockrat]

I used AA2520 in my 35 rem. Does sound a bit like a sharp edge strippng the lead, on the transistion to the leade. Maybe a dozen rounds or so of firelapping rounds to maybe smooth it out.

[44man]

I wouldn't think it's too soft. It's the same alloy I use for my .30 calls. Same treatment. Cast, size with gas check, shake and bake pc, bake and drop into ice water from oven. I have run these at 2550 fps from .308 with no issues, just the accuracy has fallen off. I know the bullets are different but I get good accuracy and no leading with this alloy prepped this way from 1200 fps - 2300 fps in both 308 and 30-30.
What temp do you bake at? you could be annealing the boolits.

[Yodogsandman]

Where you're water dropping your boolits, I doubt that they're too soft.

In your photo's, two show a smudge ring on the case neck. This shows the neck fit is tight in the chamber. Have you tried the once-fired Hornady cases, the neck walls could be thinner on commercial cases. The thickness of the brass neck could be swaging down your boolits.

Do you use a 35 Rem shell holder or .308 Win shell holder? There might be a height difference.

If your shoulder is set back too much, the force of the firing pin, when fired, could be pushing the case forward and cookie cutting a ring. It would be more pronounced with a case length that's too long or too thick or not at the length of the crimp groove.

To check, smoke a fired case (fired in your rifle) neck with a candle and run it all the way up in your sizing die. The mid-shoulder or datum should be just barely kissed by the die, visible in the carbon from the smoke.

[sfauble]

I bake 400 for 22 mins. Just what I've always done. When I got the brass I sized 5 cases in a fl die. Compared them to unsized cases. Using a caliper the size was the same. The neck tension was a felt light resistance. I used a lee collect die on all the brass. The tension was more snug. Now I did measure the pulled bullets sized at .358 and they measured correctly at .358 . I have not fl sized any brass since firing. Fired brass is same length as original. I have some neck sized brass I loaded up for the range today to see I'd there is a noticeable difference on the good load. Just an easy thing to do to compare one thing.

Now I have read, but no first hand exp with a lever gun that you can just neck size. Same chamber and the fired brass is easy in and out on my rifle.

Using 308 shell holder. Forgot to put that in here.

[44man]

I neck turn every case for my 30-30 since I found wobbling loads. You could have thick necks.

[GRUMPA]

Before you guys comment on the brass, read this first...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?276255-308-to-35-Rem-done-my-way&highlight=

[sfauble]

Hey Grumpa. Appreciate you showing up. The brass is really nice work. Looks great. I don't believe I have a brass problem. I believe it's a rifle issue or maybe something I'm doing during loading or both. I did measure the brass and it measured just as factory brass. I had 3 unfired factory loads to compare. Thanks for allowing me to be able to shoot this rifle because of your work.

[GRUMPA]

Well here's my .02 worth. I think it's a sharp edge in the chamber itself. When using cast boolits there's a thing called obturation that takes place as well.

[sfauble]

Since a sharp edge has bee mentioned a few times. Is it possible since I have one load that shoots well that it is not effecting accuracy? Or did I get lucky that the one load is just not effected by the cut bullet because everything else just works with it.

[44man]

Before you guys comment on the brass, read this first...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?276255-308-to-35-Rem-done-my-way&highlight=
Ok, good job and the reaming is the key. They should be straight. My brass had all kinds of different thicknesses from side to side.
But is 400° enough to harden lead? Or did it stay soft.
Yes, it could be the ball seat is sharp in the rifle. The best thing would be recovered boolits.

[GRUMPA]

I'm the kinda guy that takes chamber casts, I have a lot of tools here and if I were to find a sharp edge I would be introducing it to my lapping stones.

[sfauble]

44man I would think that 400 is enough since its the same pot I made my last 200 308 from and have been shooting them at 2300+. Same alloy and same treatment. 0 leading in barrel. I started waterquenching after I got some leading in my 30-30 before I got the 308. Haven't had an issue since.

I don't have the equipment to work the chamber in any way. I could do a chamber cast or have a Smith look at it. I just am not ready to spend any more money until I feel like it's gonna be a keeper. If I do a chamber cast should I do a pound cast or use the other low temp stuff. Can't remember what it's called. Never done one before.

[GRUMPA]

I think your talking about CerroCast (sp) which is some pretty good stuff. I also use a 2-part rubber epoxy that Dentists use, works rather well and cleans right up. I've done pound casts using pure lead, lotta hassle that way but works when nothing is readily available...

[44man]

I understand spending more money better then most, SS ravages a life style. I did better with paper route money when young then I do now. I bought a .300 Weatherby and more guns you can shake a stick at with almost nothing. i still have the Browning Superposed. I paid $308 for it. I was making $1.75 an hour.

[popper]

Look at the PC round pic. It's cutting the PC and forming the ring. Lead gets blown into the space between the mouth and leade. Last pic of the dummy rnd shows the ring forming.You alloy is not too soft but make sure seating doesn't make the ogive larger - 308 brass has a tough neck - I've had the nose expand if neck tension is too great - on WD allow. They won't chamber in my AR 308, just get to pogo. Try sizing a thou. or 2 smaller. Worked for the RD in 30/30.

[bhn22]

Since a sharp edge has bee mentioned a few times. Is it possible since I have one load that shoots well that it is not effecting accuracy? Or did I get lucky that the one load is just not effected by the cut bullet because everything else just works with it.

It could be because of a slightly different bullet profile.

[MBTcustom]

400 degrees is acceptable temperature, but I like to go 450. Your bullets are hard enough.
You got your brass from Grumpa, so it's not the brass (I made the die for that BTW).
You're using two of the best bullet designs for aplication, so you're good there. (the RCBS is shooting better because it was blessed by Boolette herself and just tends to work in anything.)

I would not be surprised if your throat (or lack thereof) is to blame. Your bullet is passing over a sharp edge and thats all there is to it. The lead and PC that is scraped off is piling up in the only place they can: between the case mouth and where all the scraping is happening.

You need to do a pound cast, or take it to a smith who has a borescope and knows how to use it. I am just such a smith, and I wish you were close enough for me to help you, but please read my Sticky on how to do a pound cast (read the whole thing and see the second method I mention later in the thread.)
Also read my Sticky titled "just a few tips for new rifle casters" as that might give you some clues as well.

Something I want to ask you (and pardon me if it's redundant) but are you sizing your bullets after PC? You absolutely must be less than .360 for this not to happen, and .359 would probably be better.

Also, have you pulled some loaded bullets to see if they are still the right size, and if the PC was damaged? Buddy of mine came over a couple nights ago and asked me to pull down a handfull of his PC 45-70 loads, and I found that half of them had the PC damaged.

[sfauble]

Went to the range this afternoon. Took the 35 and the 30-30. Kill two birds with one stone. Get some shooting in and sight in the Scope on the 30-30. Gives me time to let each gun cool down. I took 35 rounds of 35 rem 5 loads each of LVR .5 gr steps from 39-41 with the RD bullet. The only load I know the velocity was 39.0 which is right at 2150fps I did on the first range trip. After that I was after accuracy after I had a base idea for loading.


From left to right: 39.0 at 2.1", 39.5 at 5.0", 40.0 at 3.95"

143751

Left to right: 41.0 at 2.35", 40.5 at 3.61" and the last one is what I was having luck with. 39.0 Gr LVR 220 gr RCBS bullet but this one sized to .360 and set a little deeper. This is the worst for this load so far at 3.9". I have to pull 2 of them because they would not chamber.
143752
Below is typical of what I have been getting. The load below is 39.0 LVR 220 RCBS sized .358. This is a 6 shot group at 1.82"
143753
Thought I would post actual targets and show what some of the groups actually looks like. All targets were shot round robin today. Except the bottom one which was shot yesterday consecutive.

Finally got one to eject with the lead on it.143754143756

Maybe I'm just too picky or not used to how a lever gun shoots. The top left and bottom left target pics I can live with. The rest just seem off from what should be.

[sfauble]

Goodsteel I do size after coating. So the loads are sized and checked and then coated and cooked. Then sized again. I do not have a .359 sizer. I opened up my .356 to .360. Should probably have held up before doing that. .360 is probably to large for this gun.

All 15 I pulled on the first trip were sized at .358 and when pulled all looked good with no scraping and measured at .358. They are not getting swaged.
Popper made mention of the Ogive maybe getting larger on seating. I have not checked that yet.

[Yodogsandman]

Did you get the same rings when you sized to .358"?

[sfauble]

Yes the same rings. This has been happening on all loads. No matter size, seating depth, crimp or no crimp. Happens all the time.

Popper made mention of the ring forming on my dummy rounds. I went back and looked at the pics. Then I went and looked at the dummy rounds. The dummy rounds were not sized. I just grabbed them and used them for setting seating depth. They drop at .360 and that is what I used. I am going to size 1 of each at .358 and make some new rounds. Going to smoke them and see how they fit.

Thank you all again for throwing out ideas and making mention of different things.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

Have you checked the neck outside diameter? You mentioned in a post that they were hard to chamber. Since the hulls were made from something else the neck diameter could be a problem, and needs to be turned down.

[sfauble]

The necks are the same size as factory and chamber fine. I measured that on the first loading to compare.

Here are two pics of both bullets sized to .358 and chambered. I can adjust OAL but wanted to show these. I may be causing my own grief with the PC. I was able to overcome it with the 308 and 30-30 but the throat on those are more generous.
143772143773

[44man]

I don't know about too much seating pressure doing anything. I have one boolit that I need a small hammer to get checks on and even then the nose or ogive sees no damage, Just water dropped WW.
I set the nose on a rag and pound away. I should anneal the checks but just too lazy!

[MBTcustom]

OK, that picture really tells the tale. You can clearly see it rolling up a burr right away.
You need to have that rifle throated, no two ways about it.
http://www.4-dproducts.com/displayitem.php?rowid=710&tname=rental

http://shop.pacifictoolandgauge.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=309_16_447&products_id=7820

[44man]

That does show a too tight ogive and rifling marks too deep. Bore ride should just touch, not get engraved. Dang, the marks are almost rifling depth.

[sfauble]

Appreciate the replies. So looking at each picture can you tell me what you looking at. I notice on my 308 bullets when hitting the lands it's gradual with no lead push. For lack of better terminology it as if these are straight cut and not ramped.

[popper]

44man - maybe because my seater plug is flat? HT'd alloy in tight/tough neck. Get to pull these.
143845

[popper]

44man - maybe because my seater plug is flat? HT'd alloy in tight/tough neck. Get to pull these. Ogive is supposed to be radius'd. Also need to anneal these cases.
143845

[44man]

Could be! I made one mold for my 30-30 where I got the nose too large and it left marks like you have. Hard to chamber. But I got no rings.
I bought a Lee push through and lapped it to .301" and just size the ogive with it. That fixed my problems.
It IS possible you are expanding the boolit. Measure the ogive before and after seating.
Making my own molds has put a strain on me, never knowing what exact size to cut a cherry. Mostly I am lucky. Cheap Smithy that I can't use the marks on the dials with confidence. Skim cut and measure over and over.
For dies I am in love with Hornady, the inline seat die is great. No flare tool for the rifle though so I made my own from an old RCBS seat die. I actually made the flare plug from brass and it has worked for hundreds and hundreds of cases.

[sfauble]

Well I took a break from this rifle for a few weeks. Headed to the range this morning with 50 rounds. 25 of each bullet tumble lubes with lla, sized and checked at .358. 5 each .5 gr increments. Just looking for something to work with. Shot at 50 yards they were looking like my 100 yard groups. I shot them round robin and let the barrel cool between shots. No luck. After ejecting a few rounds and seeing the rings still there even without the PC I new I was looking at throat issue as a few of you said.

I chambered 5 rounds near the end of the session and compared all of them after ejecting and all were starting to form the ring from just clambering. I also noticed something when they all were standing on the shooting bench. They all engrave heavier toward the right side of the chamber. When I ejected them I indexed them so I could compare. Is it possible the chamber is slightly off center?

As much as I like the gun itself I am leaning toward just dumping it and moving on to the next project. Savage action custom .358 20" barrel may just cure my 35 remington blues.

[TXGunNut]

I wouldn't give up on it without a trip to the gunsmith. Goodsteel suggested it needed throating and that isn't that big a deal if the rifle is otherwise sound. I'd go with GS's suggestion; I've learned a fair bit about throats ond concentricity from his posts.

[waksupi]

I wouldn't give up on it without a trip to the gunsmith. Goodsteel suggested it needed throating and that isn't that big a deal if the rifle is otherwise sound. I'd go with GS's suggestion; I've learned a fair bit about throats ond concentricity from his posts.


Why not just send it to Goodsteel, let him fix the problem, and be happy? He's a pretty smart guy when it comes to .35 bores.

[44man]

If you are engraving more on one side. Roll some rounds on the table and watch for wobble.
You can't use a dial indicator on cast but you can on the neck.
Even though reamed, you still might have brass thicker on one side.
It drove me nuts on the 30-30, as much as .020" out at the neck alone let alone at the boolit. Rounds would flop around on the table like a fish out of water until I turned them. Now I run zero to a max of .002".
When you PC, do only the drive bands and not the ogive. You are making the boolit thicker where it is already too large. Seems as if you peel a ring just chambering.
A sharp ball seat is still possible.

[sfauble]

I checked around locally and found a few smiths to do the throat. Going to be around 100 dollars. I could send it to GS but still gonna cost money. Now don't get me wrong, I have no problem spending money but I'm not sure I want to spend it on this rifle.

I don't think the brass is the issue. Grumpa brass on its second loading shouldn't be the issue. What do you mean by a sharp ball seat?

I am considering renting the reamer and trying it myself and I am also considering fire laping with a few rounds to open it up and smooth it out a little. I just need to figure out how much more time and money I want to spend on this rifle.

[44man]

Ball seat is the end of the throat or start of rifling , should have a little taper to it. Small forcing cone.

[sfauble]

From what I can see with the light I have it appears to be square. We have an automotive bore scope at work. I am going to borrow it and look in the chamber and see if it is.

[JesterGrin_1]

Any further updates?

I have been messing with a 1972 JM Marlin 336 in 35 Remington and as you have noted there is no real throat. As the boolit when it hits the lands will push lead back from the start of those lands. Of which means for the moment I will probably cut the brass a bit further back to enable me to crimp the BRP-360-220 RNFP/GC boolit in the crimp groove and enable easier feeding into the chamber.

But later if worse comes to worse or I simply want to I will probably send it off to GS if he has the reamers to give it a more gentle throat angle.

[sfauble]

None yet. Been so busy the last few days I have not had a chance to mess with it. Hopefully tomorrow or no later than this weekend. I may shoot GS a PM and discuss the throating option. I was offered 100 less than what I have into it right now with dies and such. I may just take the money and move on.

Contemplating a R92 in 454 casull for a 100 yard gun for dear and hogs. Maybe a scout scope but most likely a nice peep sight. I also have plans for a 358 win build so I will get to keep the mold making bullets.

[JesterGrin_1]

To be honest there are so many advantages with a Marlin over a Winchester style rifle I would keep and work on the Marlin.

As noted I also have a 72 JM Marlin in 35 Remington but awaiting loading tools for the caliber. As I am sure you know for this round one can not usually just run to a gun shop lol.

[44man]

Everything is hard to find for such a fine caliber.
The problem being many did not realize what a great deer caliber it is.

[sfauble]

I will say these pictures are terrible quality. Even worse on the picture. They look a lot better on the screen but this is a low quality bore scope. This is the best I can offer with what I have. I would appreciate any input from anyone that knows more than I do which will be most of you lol.

This first Picture is of the bore right past the rear sight going torward crown end. The second is near the forearm band. There is a third spot that looks similar to the second one a little further down. I forgot to snap a pic of that one. These are both on the top of the barrel but pic show them low.
146088146089

These are pics of the throat area. There is a spot similar to the bore pics you can see. This spot is at the top of the barrel just left of the sight in location. I am not
sure what it is. I cant get the rifle back out to make sure its not a lint piece since the wifey is now in bed. From comparing this to my other rifles, there no throat in comparrison.
146094146093146092146091146090146097

[MBTcustom]

That's a typical Marlin throat. They often made the throat very steep and sudden. That's not to say this type of throat cannot shoot, it's just that a little more finesse is required. These throats often do surprisingly well with paper patched bullets.
The rest of your pictures can be almost anything. I would scrub the barrel vary well with a bronze brush and Hoppes No.9 or equivalent, take a couple passes with a clean boresnake and try it again.
If the images do not clear up, I would take a tight fitting jag and see if you can feel these spots you see. As it is, it could be almost anything.

[sfauble]

Cleaned the bore really well with hoppes and a brush. Multiple soaks and scrubbing. Took the scope again and had a look. Spots are the same. I ran a tight fitting patch down the bore and you can for sure feel two of the spots. Fiddling with the scope it looks like it's rust. Almost looks like the rifling is rusted away. I had my wife look when I was doing it and she even said it looks like " it dips on the high spots", her words. The spot at the throat with a good angle and focused looks like the rifling is pushed back with a high spot between the lands.

What are some options for cleaning the bore? Steel wool and a rust penitent?

[Houndog]

Get some 4F STEEL wool and wrap it into a bore brush until it will barely pass through the bore. Coat it with something like JB bore compund ( MY all time favorite bore cleaner) and have at it! I even use this on my Benchrest rifle and it will not harm the barrel. I have a Hawkeye bore scope to varify this. IF your barrel is as bad, I'd send it to Goodsteel and rebarrel it with a Ballard style rifled barrel in a twist and chamber profile for cast boolets! If you have never had a rifle with a custom barrel INSTALLED CORRECTLY, you are in for a treat!.

[JesterGrin_1]

Get some 4F STEEL wool and wrap it into a bore brush until it will barely pass through the bore. Coat it with something like JB bore compund ( MY all time favorite bore cleaner) and have at it! I even use this on my Benchrest rifle and it will not harm the barrel. I have a Hawkeye bore scope to varify this. IF your barrel is as bad, I'd send it to Goodsteel and rebarrel it with a Ballard style rifled barrel in a twist and chamber profile for cast boolets! If you have never had a rifle with a custom barrel INSTALLED CORRECTLY, you are in for a treat!.

But the BIG ? is who makes a barrel profiled correctly for a Marlin in .358 Caliber? I have not found any?

The only thing I thought of was to get a pull off barrel from a Marlin 30-30 and then send it off to Jess to have it re-bored to .358 and re-chambered for 35 Remington. Numrich gun parts has Marlin 30-30 barrel pull offs.

[Houndog]

But the BIG ? is who makes a barrel profiled correctly for a Marlin in .358 Caliber? I have not found any?

The only thing I thought of was to get a pull off barrel from a Marlin 30-30 and then send it off to Jess to have it re-bored to .358 and re-chambered for 35 Remington. Numrich gun parts has Marlin 30-30 barrel pull offs.

Almost all the custom barrel makers will profile a barrel any way you want for a small fee! For the 336, I'd call Douglas!