expanding brass for lead bullets

[Willoughby]

I'm new to cast lead reloading and Im not sure I understand about expanding brass for lead bullets
if a lead bullet is to be larger diameter than jacketed bullets how does it fit in a case & wont it be resized in the crimp cycle ??

I slugged my barrels , bought a bunch of ww and smelted them into ingots , bought some molds and a bottom pour pot before I even considered lead bullets require larger diameter to perform well,
I'm really chompin at the bit to load some cast bullets so any help greatly appreciated

[EDG]

The most basic questions need to be asked.

Are you loading for a rifle, autoloading pistol or a revolver?
If a rifle is it a bolt gun, single shot, pump, lever gun or autoloader? Does it have a tube magazine?

1. For use in single shot and bolt guns you do not necessarily have to crimp the case.

2. When seating lead bullets they are often shaved by the mouth of the case. This is NOT desirable.
If the case is too far under size it can even swage down the base of the bullet resulting in poor accuracy.

3. With a rifle barrel the bullet needs to be at least .001 larger than the groove diameter of the barrel. I have shot unsized soft bullets as large as .004 oversize. They worked for me but I am not necessarily recommending that. Undersize bullet will usually shoot poorly and/or lead your bore.
To use bullets this large you either use them in a single shot with fire formed brass or you size the brass only enough to grip the bullet.
If you size with common dies the cases will be too small so you have to expand the case with an over size expander.
I like to use an expander that is the same size as the bullet for a single shot rifle.
For a repeater use an expander that is about .001 smaller than the bullet.
If you are trying to shoot a pump, autoloader or lever gun your bullet has to be gripped tight enough to keep it from moving in the case.
For those rifles you might consider a gas checked bullet and a smaller expander. The gas check will not be as easily damaged during the seating process.

4. For reloading for rifles you are getting into 3 die territory.
Check out the 2 diameter expanders like the Lyman M dies. They are very useful for expanding a case for cast bullets.
However due to the variations in rifle barrels the proper Lyman M die may not exist. You may need a custom expander. There are several companies that sell these or a forum member can make them for you. Yes they are an extra expense but they will save you a lot of time wasted at the range and wasted components.

To summarize:

1. The bullets diameter is determined by the groove diameter of your barrel plus .001 (and can be even larger in some cases)
2. The case has to be the right size for the bullet so the bullet is not damaged when seated.
3.
A> You make the case the right size by shooting in the fire formed condition without sizing
B> Size with a bushing die or a die that has been lapped out to size your brass only enough for seating
C> You use standard dies with a custom expander.

4. You might get away with using a gas checked design if you are lucky

If you do not have a good 0-1 micrometer, you are going to need one for the rest of your casting life.

[Freeandcold]

Happy 4th of July
Specifics will help limit the responses to those that are relevant. Otherwise, the info could be like a fire hose! Also, a lot of info can be found in the stickies...
What cartridge, firearm, boolit are you starting with? What is the purpose of the load (paper or dinner... Light loads or heavy...). What did your barrels slug at? What did you size the boolits... I think a long look at the stickies (unfortunately or fortunately there is a lot of info there) is a good start. Also, the Lyman cast loading book is very helpful to have on hand.

Good luck!

[Willoughby]

Im hoping to load for a 45acp and a 44rem for starters then later a 3006 and a 300wm- sorry about not including enough info

[Litl Red 3991]

I'm new to cast lead reloading and Im not sure I understand about expanding brass for lead bullets
if a lead bullet is to be larger diameter than jacketed bullets how does it fit in a case & wont it be resized in the crimp cycle ??
.............

You're spot on.

There are some die sets that are appropriate dimensions for lead bullets. Unfortunately, the industry seldom advertises the dimensions their sets produce. RCBS recently came out with a line of "Cowboy" die sets. Some are right for lead, at least one recently purchased set produces ammunition that's smaller diameter than a set they mfg'd back in the 70s.

It's really not a simple deal. At it's start, the advice to size your bullets .001" larger than your groove diameter doesn't mention what you'll have to do for that to actually result in getting lead sized that large to be that large when the hammer hits the primer. It also doesn't mention that your bullet hardness pretty much controls whether or not you get leading. And often controls whether or not your reloads are accurate. And that it's not just lead hardness, but that hardness and velocity go hand in hand. and.... some other things...

[Litl Red 3991]

Do you have a decent caliper yet?

You've slugged your bores. Good deal. Have you measured fired cases from those guns? That's really the starting point for a lot of this mess. It'll tell you a lot about your guns and the chambers. And measuring the same cases after sizing will tell you how well your sizing die starts out the whole process. Nobody mentioned that?

[Litl Red 3991]

Im hoping to load for a 45acp and a 44rem for starters then later a 3006 and a 300wm- sorry about not including enough info

Sounds like fun. And it should be.

You have chosen 4 different animals to skin however. The two pistol cartridges will be somewhat alike. And WW alloy will probably suit, depending on what kind of power you want out of your ammo. The rifle ammo is probably going to introduce you to gas checks and WW just might not be hard enough even then.

[gloob]

First you seat some bullets, pull them, and measure what comes out. You might be fine. As for crimp, you can adjust your die for amount of crimp. The only question left is will they still chamber. Sometimes a chamber is too tight for lead bullets. If your ammo needs a firm crimp to chamber the round, it might spell trouble for cast bullets.

If the case swaged your bullet, one of the simplest things to do is get the right sized expander for your bullet. I use an expander of equal diameter to the bullet. This is pretty common practice for black powder shooters. But it is more common for peeps to advise 1 mil under.

[Willoughby]

sorry duplicate post

[Willoughby]

thanks for the posts guys, by the way I did by some hardening alloy 30-70 i think ? had I considered this issue first, I may not have jumped in with both feet. I was doing just fine reloading till now . lead bullet reloading 101 would make a good sticky for newbies like me