Alright I'll ask the stupid, lazy, question

[stubbicatt]

Go easy fellas. I have casted a bunch of boolits for my 357 mag. They are pretty soft. Soft enough that my thumbnail leaves a noticeable dent in them. Before I shoot them, and turn my barrel into a lead mine, would you recommend I simply melt them and sweeten the mix with some lino to make them harder?

I had thought to fire 10 or so, and then run a dry patch down the tube to see if it is sticky, but rather than struggle with a lead removal project, I decided to risk scorn, humiliation, and ridicule, and submit my question. I figure it is better to learn from others than to first hand struggle with a mistake.

Sorry, I don't have a hardness tester right now, its on my list.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Stubb

[blaser.306]

What is the alloy that they are cast from? What velocity are you looking for, what size are you sizing them to? and what lube are you using with these boolits. Before setting yourself up for a flogging fill in the blanks! What you have going there may just be the ticket, or as you mentioned may be a strip mine in the making.

[Yodogsandman]

What alloy?

How's your fit?

How many boolits are you talking about?

What velocities do you want to use these for?

Is it easier and lazier for you to cast more boolits or clean up lead deposits?

[frkelly74]

The theory that I embrace is that if the boolit is fat enough you can get pretty high velocity with even softer alloy. If your boolit is too small it will lead with almost any alloy. So I want to load the fattest possible boolit that will still chamber easily. Personally I size to .359 and tumble lube, but my 357 is a contender and I have no cylinder throat to bore mismatch issues to deal with as a revolver might have. Make a dummy round with an as cast boolit and see if it will chamber easily and go from there with small batches so you don't end up with a bunch of ammo that you will have to do something with. By the way , you can clean out lead easier that you can clean out copper fouling.. Leading is not the end of the world if it should happen, but rather a lesson along the way to be taken..Just saying.

[sqlbullet]

The needed relevant information to speculate is the slugged diameter of you barrel and of each cylinder throat, along with the actual diameter of the boolits.

Fit is far more important than hardness in avoiding leading, so we need to understand how they are going to fit.

[runfiverun]

what size are they, and how long ago did you cast them.
if they are 358 or will be, and you cast them 3 day's ago, I wouldn't even sweat it.

if you cast them 2 months ago and they are 356 throw them back.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

In case you haven't come across it yet, strands from a COPPER Chore Boy cleaning pad wrapped around an old bronze brush will clean any lead out of your bore with just a few strokes. Leading is nothing to be feared, just fixed. And as others have said don't assume hardness is the cause or the solution.

[dubber123]

As several of our members have stated, fitment is more of a concern than hardness. If they fit the gun well, you can shoot quite soft with no leading. Gas checks help, as does using slower powders. I shoot the same 9 BHN, (quite soft) alloy in my 1-7/8" barrel snubnose .38, and in my 9-1/2" barreled F/A .357. The snub uses fast powder and a plain base boolit. I can get 875 fps. from the 1-7/8" barrel of the snubnose before getting any leading. The F/A uses a gas check boolit, slow powder, and gets very close to 1,500 fps. and no leading at all.

Some measuring and load info will be helpful for us to give you our best answers.

[gwpercle]

Proper fit to barrel.
Good lube or powder coating.
Don't exceed 1000 fps, unless powder coated.
If it takes a gas check put one on.
And those soft boolits can work, you have to work at it a bit. But I have discovered just being hard doesn't make a boolit satisfactory for magnum velocities. Whole lot more to it .
Gary

[dilly]

Why don't you just load them in 38 special cases if you are worried that 357 will be too fast?

[Whiterabbit]

I shot my best pistol group to date through a barrel that had lead in it.

Just saying.

[stubbicatt]

Bore is .356" Boolits .358" alloy unknown, mostly pure lead, I'm estimating 30-1 alloy. Number cast? Many. Velocity unknown, most accurate load so far 13.2 grains 2400, barrel length, 20 inches. I'm guessing *maybe* 1400 fps.

[dubber123]

20" barrel, I'm guessing lever gun. You can get away with a lot more in a rifle than a revolver. A lot depends on how smooth the bore is too. I have firelapped Marlins and have been able to increase charge weights a full 1.5 grains afterwards before leading began to reappear.

[303Guy]

Softer alloy has the ability to bump up and seal the bore but your boolits are already a good fit by the sounds of it. It's only rifling skid you need to worry about. You're saying these boolits work so no problem. Did you get any leading? What rifle is it? I've had some amazing accuracy with a Rossi carbine.

[stubbicatt]

Thanks everyone. 303guy it is a Uberti replica 1873. A great plinking rifle. I figure I'll get a good seal with the bullet being .002 over bore size. I haven't shot any of this softer batch yet, so I cannot comment on how they will shoot... yet.

The bullet is the Lyman Cowboy bullet, with the nice fat grease groove, the sizing die sizes well up the nose profile of the bullet, so I reckon it has a pretty long engagement surface with the bore, and that perhaps the bullets will not strip in the rifling. I reckon maybe 1/10th of an inch of the nose of the bullet is not in contact with the rifling, and it isn't a fast twist either, at 18.75" Per http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/bore-groove-twist/ the bore diameter is .346 and the groove is .355, making the 358 bullet a nice, snug, fit.

I loaded up 10 of them, I reckon I'll shoot them and see how they perform. Then run a dry patch down the bore and see if it grabs on anything. The barrel of this rifle is very smooth. I use my home made black powder lube on the bullets, which leaves a really slick bore. It is approximately 55% beeswax, 40% crisco, a little olive oil and a little Murphy's Oil Soap.

I suppose I ought to chronograph these loads, as I really don't know how fast they are going. It is a sweet shooting rifle, and I enjoy plinking at range trash, dirt clods, etc. with it, and near as I can tell, my cost per round is about 8 cents. So one can afford to have a long leisurely day in the forest, and practice marksmanship skills. Even better, I have two grandchildren on the way, maybe one day I can introduce them to the joys of shooting with this rifle. :)

As an aside, in comparison to my 308, it takes about 2x as long for a bullet to make 125 yards, which is how I estimated the muzzle velocity at about 1400 fps. I've read elsewhere that nearly pure lead bullets used in black powder loadings have approximately that same muzzle velocity, and they don't foul, so I'm hoping these will perform similarly.

[dubber123]

It may be an unfair comparison, but my 20" BP muzzleloader shoots pure lead at 1,400+ with very good accuracy and no leading. Twist I believe is 1-24" on mine.

[scottfire1957]

Thanks everyone. 303guy it is a Uberti replica 1873. A great plinking rifle. I figure I'll get a good seal with the bullet being .002 over bore size. I haven't shot any of this softer batch yet, so I cannot comment on how they will shoot... yet.

The bullet is the Lyman Cowboy bullet, with the nice fat grease groove, the sizing die sizes well up the nose profile of the bullet, so I reckon it has a pretty long engagement surface with the bore, and that perhaps the bullets will not strip in the rifling. I reckon maybe 1/10th of an inch of the nose of the bullet is not in contact with the rifling, and it isn't a fast twist either, at 18.75" Per http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/bore-groove-twist/ the bore diameter is .346 and the groove is .355, making the 358 bullet a nice, snug, fit.

I loaded up 10 of them, I reckon I'll shoot them and see how they perform. Then run a dry patch down the bore and see if it grabs on anything. The barrel of this rifle is very smooth. I use my home made black powder lube on the bullets, which leaves a really slick bore. It is approximately 55% beeswax, 40% crisco, a little olive oil and a little Murphy's Oil Soap.

I suppose I ought to chronograph these loads, as I really don't know how fast they are going. It is a sweet shooting rifle, and I enjoy plinking at range trash, dirt clods, etc. with it, and near as I can tell, my cost per round is about 8 cents. So one can afford to have a long leisurely day in the forest, and practice marksmanship skills. Even better, I have two grandchildren on the way, maybe one day I can introduce them to the joys of shooting with this rifle. :)

As an aside, in comparison to my 308, it takes about 2x as long for a bullet to make 125 yards, which is how I estimated the muzzle velocity at about 1400 fps. I've read elsewhere that nearly pure lead bullets used in black powder loadings have approximately that same muzzle velocity, and they don't foul, so I'm hoping these will perform similarly.


Yep. Shoot 'em and see. Go from there. Alloying, loading, sizing, coating, etc. can be as complicated as rocket surgery if you want it be, or as simple as pie.

[LAGS]

@ Dubber123
A BP doesent genreate as much pressure at 1400 FPS as smokeless does.
Lots of leading is more from Pressure, then volocity.

[Outpost75]

In my .44-40 rifles and revolvers I use 1:30 tin/lead at 1350 fps in the rifle and 1000 fps in the revolver. Great game performance, acccurate and no leading. I use the same alloy with 170-180 grain bullets in the .357 with 11 grains of #2400 with similar good results and comparable velocities.

[stubbicatt]

OK. Report follows:

Shot the mystery metal today. 10 rounds, and no visible signs of leading, although there were some unburned particles of powder in what looked to be the first 6 inches or so of the rifled portion of the barrel. I forgot to take my cleaning rod and patches to try to detect any rough spots which might be indicative of leading, but none was seen.

I followed up with another 10 rounds of known good boolits, and all shot to the same point of aim.

Conclusion: My approximate 30-1 alloy, sized approximately .003" larger than bore diameter is suitable for use in this 357 magnum short rifle.

Thanks all for your contributions. The only way to know if you like a cookie is to take a bite, and by then, of course, it is too late. In this instance all worked out, and accuracy was minute of coke can at approximately 60 yards or so.

[fredj338]

You can run pure lead pretty fast as long as you keep pressures down & they are the right size, decent lube.