223 reduced?

[borg]

To those that load 223 with Red Dot or Green dot, do you use a filler?

[JWFilips]

I do not use a filler... Don't see any reason to

[chsparkman]

I use Green Dot. I get great accuracy with no filler.

[Russ M]

Red Dot. No filler.

[aap2]

Red Dot no filler.

[frkelly74]

1.1 gr bullseye no filler. Still playing with it.

[bangerjim]

I have used several fast pistol powders in reduced loads (~22LR) with Dacron and without.

No discernable difference in accuracy or power.

banger

[pretzelxx]

Is this rifle or in a pistol size barrel? I have titegroup, would that work?

[borg]

Thanks guys.
This is for a Rem Mod 700 Varmint 223 and a youth model Win Mod 70, using the Lee Bater mold.

[Scharfschuetze]

I've used Bullsey, Unique and 2400 without any filler in the .223/5.56mm with good success.

I've used Tightgroup in other cartridges for reduced loads where it performs much like Bullseye. I don't have any experience with it in the .223/5.56 though.

[pretzelxx]

I may try it out in my AR as a bolt gun. Small powder charge and single shooting with a mag could be fun.

[borg]

Cheaper than 22 LR, and with the Grandkids, it will slow them down somewhat.

[tsubaki]

If you want lower velocities than what is published with Green Dot or Red Dot look at Trail Boss.
I was playing with some jacketed stuff and their max load pushed a 55gr PSP at only 1088fps. I'm interested to see what the Bator will do with that powder.
I bought the mold a while back and haven't started with it yet.

[BSJI]

Yep, Trail Boss worked well in my 5.56 MVP bolt action. 4.6gr was sub-sonic with 55gr JSP. Just bought two more jugs of it.

Just got a Lee Bator mold too. But I have to wait until my 1-9 twist barrel blank gets machined to try them...

[pworley1]

I get subsonic with Red Dot, Green Dot and Unique and no filler. Great fun and very cheap to shoot.

[jaysouth]

To those that load 223 with Red Dot or Green dot, do you use a filler?

Google-Fu is your friend

Here is our lost member, Jim's treatise on reduced loads in .223

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?166421-H-amp-R-223-w-CBs

[Larry Gibson]

If you read the sticky on fillers and my post #4 you'll see I neither recommend nor use fillers with such powders in any cartridge.

Larry Gibson

[borg]

I did read the sticky, but still had questions and concerned about trying not to do what I did to a nice NM Win Mod 70. 30 years ago.
Still gun shy.
Thanks for the link, hadn't found that one.

[Larry Gibson]

There are numerous things in this endeavor I also did 30 years ago that I no longer do. We have learned a lot in the last 30 years and not to use a wad or a filler with such fast burning powders is one of them.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

not needed.
you may see an increase or decrease in accuracy if you tip the barrel up or down though.

[pretzelxx]

Good info all around. All I have is a ton of titegroup and the three calibers I shoot apparently it will work in them all!

[osteodoc08]

OP, I also have the Remmy 700 Varmint in 223. IIRC it has a 1:12 twist. Let us know how it shoots those boolits as I may have to get a mold to try it out myself.

[Lonegun1894]

I use Unique, Red Dot, and Bulls Eye with several boolit designs and no filler with any of them. Still trying to figure out which I like best though.

[Jupiter7]

I chrono'd about 20 rounds a few weeks back, wanted to see shot to shot what was happening, no tipping between shot just hand cycled from AR mag. 2.5grs 700x went from (roughly)1040low to 1090 high, most around 1070fps. Consistent enough for short range plinking. I didn't use gas checks and bullet weighed around 61.5grs after powder coating. Gonna try some more with GC to see if accuracy improves.

[GhostHawk]

I have been reloading .223 with Red Dot and 55gr jacketed and 55 gr cast boolits. (Lee Bator mold from Midsouth)
The cast bulllets in many respects are like .22lr. quieter than factory .223 slightly lower point of impact, but good enough accuacy for hunting smaller game. I averaged about 1.5" groups at 100m. I have been loading Red Dot in the 4 to 7grain range under a 55 gr cast boolit or jword. Primers and gas checks are the biggest expenses.

[bangerjim]

not needed.
you may see an increase or decrease in accuracy if you tip the barrel up or down though.


Per their "bragging" data.......TiteGroup claims to be the least position sensitive powder out there. I use it a lot and have not found tilting the barrel back B4 firing does anything beneficial. And that is with 3-5gn laying on the side in BIG pistol and rifle carts. TG is a heavy dense powder and does NOT fill a large cart at all. But, for me, performs far better than Unique, Red Dot or other powders.

But other powders may show some benefit from tilting to get the powder back against the primer.

Guess people will just have to try it and see for themselves.

banger

[pretzelxx]

Thanks for the info banger, I'm pretty excited to convert my AR to a bolt gun. I'm sure 10 lbs will last a long time!

[borg]

Now you need your upper milled out for a charging handle

[JWFilips]

Bullseye, Red Dot, & Unique: I have yet to see a difference in impact without a filler ( & I did my best to try...really)

[pretzelxx]

Yeah. And the bolt carrier. I'm just so glad I came back from my hiatus and found this thread!

[BSJI]

I'm pretty excited to convert my AR to a bolt gun.

Like this? :kidding:

144156

I'm not "done" with it. The hand guard will be OD green someday...

[pretzelxx]

Pretty close, I just want a side charging ar with these low charge loads!

[BSJI]

Yeah, I had a side charge AR spacegun back when I shot NRA highpower. Sold it when I got out of that game..

Decided to build a stick shift "AR" around a Mossberg MVP. Its had some growing pains, but is coming together now. Not as smooth as a Krag, but this is the idea on how to run it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC4_g6N3aLA

[borg]

I found a gunsmith that will mill the upper and drill and tap the carrier.
He does a lot of Match and HP guns.

[pretzelxx]

I have a spare upper. I might attempt to do the work myself since it's aluminum. I'll probably check out that ar15 website for more info on diy to side charge. Then it will be a perfect reduced load gun

[BSJI]

The receiver is indeed aluminum. But the carrier is pretty darn hard...

[minmax]

Who is the gunsmith that will do the work? I'd like to find out. The side handle charger uppers that I have seen are quite expensive. One that I do like is the ABarms it list at around $250. Not something I am going to be able to afford. What I like about is the charge handle is on the left side. Hickok 45 has a video on it.

[borg]

Price will be $75, for D&T carrier, and milling the upper, including the handle.
This is my supplied uppers, which will be slab sided.
I will post more info when I get them back.

[borg]

Sorry I haven't gotten back to this, health issues.
As was stated earlier, I bought two slab sided uppers from Palmetto and sent them to John.
He milled both and supplied the handles for $75 each and sent them back.
I put one together for a 300 BLK so I could lower the charge for quietness.
So far I'm very happy with it,, if only I could get it back from the Grand kids, they are having such a ball with it,, and cheaper than 22LR because they can't unload a 20 mag as fast as a 10/22.
It is so much easier to charge the rifle now, they don't complain because it's not semi.
If you want it on the left side, you would have to contact John