Paper Patch Boollits in 8mm

[oadad]

I have 2 24/47's that measure 323 when slugged, I use a Lee 175gr boolit and size them to 325. I tried paper patch using transparent paper rapped twice the diameter. When I measure again I read 330 inch (paper and boolit). Is this to big to shoot safely?? At 1700-1800fps, maybe 2000fps or even 2400-2600fps. I'm trying to develop a replacement for J-boolits and heard paper patch will get me there. I get very good results without the paper patch at .325 inch using gas check and 860, 5010 or H4895 powder. :confused:

[bcp477]

Check the paper-patching forum, here on this site. There is some good information there. I am dealing with the same thing right now (working on paper-patched loads for the 8 x 57). I am not experienced enough to say that .330" is too large to work, or be safe. However, a rule of thumb of which I have heard alot is that most rifles like PP bullets BEST when sized so that they are approximately at groove diameter, plus or minus a bit. This would mean about .322" to .324". I am testing several possibilities myself, including from about .326".....down to .323" (varying based on paper thickness). I have not had the chance to do any shooting lately, so I cannot provide any direct guidance (I have a number of cartridges, of several different loads, ready.... and I may have a chance to test them this week....so maybe I'll have some results by then). What I am doing now is sizing my bullets to .314"....then wrapping them twice with paper approx. 0.0020" thick (ordinary lined notebook paper)...to get a total wet diameter of about .325". When dry, these bullets lose about 0.001"....for a final diameter of just about .324". I do not know if these will prove to be the BEST final dimension....but I have a feeling that they will. After the wrapped bullets dry, I lube the paper with Lee Liquid Alox.

Anyway, things could go either way. I'll post my results and observations, when I have some results.

[kjg]

What aboutusing an ordiary unsized bullet in example saya standard bullet casted from a lee mold 90370 i'm casting slightly softer than#2 and close to 20-1 and they are dropping out at .310 diam and weigh 195 grains and wraped 3x with computer paper then lubed with liquid alox hmmm got me going now you guys did it. off to the bench I go ya'll just got me in trouble with the missus grin grin...kjg

[Larry Gibson]

I run a soft cast 325471 through a .314 Lee sizer (bullets come out .315) and then PP back to .325 for use on my 8x57s.

Larry Gibson

[Uncle Jaque]

So; How do they shoot?

I've noodled around with patched bullets over the years and never had much luck to speak of with 'em.

[JKH]

Hi Guys,

I'm new to the forums, been thinking seriously about casting for my .45 but am now thinking strongly of casting for my rifles.

At any rate, as to the above topic, I have paper patched jacketed .308 bullets to shoot in .318 bore mauser rifles, I have an old artical by Ross Seyfried about this, he took the lead bullet application and applyed it to jacketed bullets for high velocity locads in rifles with odd bores and scarce bullets.
I had great success with the process using 10% (or higher if you can get it) cotton paper, some copier papers work well as is if you get 20lb weight or there abouts, liquid alox works great and I dusted them at first with grahpite but that was rather dirty and swiched to white motor mica, this is just to keep the alox thats exposed from being sticky and picking up any crud.
Cut the ends of the paper on an angle and experiment with the length so that when wrapped wet the ends are a few thousandths of an inch apart (NOT overlapping), mic the paper and your bullets so that when wrapped and the paper shrinks after drying, it comes out as close to bore diameter as possible, maybe one or two thousandths over.

I'm not sure how fast you can push lead but jacketed bullets can reach the full velocity potential of the parent cartridge/rifle combination.

If I can ever dig up the artical I will post it, the technical information on calculating finished diameter, etc. based on paper weight and thickness, etc. is very handy, Seyfried was awesome, his leaving G&A is why I stopped subscribing after getting that magazine since the late 70's.

Jeff

[Buckshot]

..............If it was the one where he was also paper patching 500gr .458" jacketed slugs, that was Seyfried's first published article.

...............Buckshot

[eka]

Oadad, when your patched boolit has dried, run it back through your .325 sizing die. It doesn't hurt anything and if you are using a lubrisizer, it will leave some lube on the boolit at the lube grooves. I've just started paper patching myself and am in no way speaking from a wealth of knowledge or experience. However, I have learned a bunch from the guys here that post their thoughts and ideas in the paper patching section. I am experimenting with four different calibers doing just what you are and have had some very promising results.

[JKH]

it may have, he was also patching bullets for .333 Jeffrey (if memory serves me right, most likely not) and other odd British calibers. It is a very informative tome with applications in both bullet realms.

I wish he was still writing, he made G&A along with Kieth, Cooper and other classic writers, I cant stand Boddington (my personal feeling, others may like him though).

I had somewhat forgotten about paperpatching and may wrap some old cast .308 bullets I have for llight loads in an 8MM, they are gaschecked bullets sans checks, I wonder how well the paper acts in place of gas checks to perform the same function?

Would IMR4227 work with 170grain paper patched cast lead bullets in 8mm for?

Jeff

[JKH]

eka,

Are you varying your final bullet diameter by changing paper type and weight? I found that by following Seyfrieds advice and trying different paper, I could get the final diameter spot on. The paper will spring back to a certain extent so if its to far over in diameter after drying, sizing may not bring it down to proper diamter.
I found that with the vintage commison action type sporter I was shooting these in (.318 bore) that if the final patched bullet was over diameter it sometimes would cut (the lands that is) through the paper patch and shred it before leaving the bore, as you can imagine accuracy was not existant. With proper diameter the paper patched .308's shot as well as standard
.318 bullets (jacketed), it made shooting the old beasty a LOT cheaper.

The only down fall to the whole system was time, it takes a lot to make good paper patched bullets, I finally just bought a bullet swag similar to the LEE system but with interchangeable inserts, one in .320 and one in .318 and just run standard .323 jacketed bullets through both using lithium grease to lube and get great results. I know, slightly off topic, I might have to revisit this pathcing process with lead over the winter when shooting is near impossible and loading ammo is a good way of keeping cabin feever at bay.

Jeff

[eka]

Jeff I haven't tried but one paper so far. It's tracing paper and the way I measure it, the thickness is .0017. I've already seen, like you said, I will need different paper for different applications. I'm just starting to get going on this technique. One of the things I like about it, is it had breathed new life into some rifles that I had previously tested to death.

[JKH]

eka & oadad,

Tracing paper may be a little light, try some cotton based paper something on theorder of 10% and around 20lb weight, you can get varying thickness depending on the weight of the paper. Any somewhat strong paper will work but cotton helps reinforce it and makes it hold up better with higher velocitys and also resists tearing better when wet and applying the patches to the bullet, I also have found that this paper tends to dry tighter on the bullet and is very resistant to loosening. Now, to qualify my experience; I used paper patching with JACKETED bullets at standard velocitys but have not tryed it on cast bullets yet other than to practice before doing the jacketed ones, however, if these hold up throwing a 150 grain bullet at around 2600FPS (plus or minus) then they will certainly do well with the lower velocitys encountered with lead bullets.

eka, I ran across your thread about patching, good stuff! I am going to try some paper patched bulelts coated with paint rubbing compound from wally world in a K98k-ZF41 sniper rifle with a slighlty rough and dark bore, I was thinking of something like the Tubbs system but thought it might be to harsh to risk onsuch a valuable rifle, good info guys!

Keep us posted on how you both make out, these kinds of experiments are great and help the rest of us that are to lazy or chicken to try them till proven out first ;^ )

Jeff

[JKH]

Hey Guys!

Reserecting an old post here, I FINALLY found the article Seyfried wrote that I posted above about, it is now scanned to PDF and I would be happy to e-mail it to anyone who is interested.

Jeff

[Moonie]

JKH, I'm interested.

[Larry Gibson]

So; How do they shoot?

I've noodled around with patched bullets over the years and never had much luck to speak of with 'em.

They shot comparable to regular cast bullets out of my 24/47 and M48s. I was just using WW + 2% tin for an alloy and was getting the same accuracy (1 - 2" with 10 shot groups) as with regualr cast bullets at the same velocity. When I pushed the PP'd harder accuracy went south. I could have used a harder alloy but that was not what I wanted. For hunting purposes the 323471Hp at 2100 fps is just as accurate as the PP'd bullet. So I use the regular cast bullet to avoid the extra steps. Truthfully I never really worked a lot with it as I was needing a hunting load. Might have to revisit it one of these days. That 323471 should be a very decent bullet if I can drive it decently at 2400 fps.

Larry Gibson

[damron g]

(1 - 2" with 10 shot groups)

Scoped? at what range?

George

[docone31]

I am going to guess about 100, with scope. The barrel is not even paper polished yet either.
Bed the barrel. Makes a difference.

[Larry Gibson]

(1 - 2" with 10 shot groups)

Scoped? at what range?

George

The Yugo VZ24/47 is bedded and has a 6X Leupold on it and the groups were shot at 100 yards. The Rifle shoots sub moa with Sierra's 175 gr SPs and the MKs. The gray cord wrapped around it is the connection cable to measure the psi's via the Oehler M43.

Larry Gibson

[Good Cheer]

Please do keep the info coming. Got a 1888 that's just about the best darn long range run-up sights 32 caliber shootin' stick I'll ever need. Haven't tried paper in it since '82 when Richard Hoch put a new barrel on it. Think I'd like to try a real soft semi-spire point with 9# onion skin. Got an extra 311284 that just might get modified to suit. Yeehah!