ohland
06-29-2015, 09:54 AM
Should be pretty close.
In short, the OP went and had a rifle barrel machined and installed in his 12 gauge SxS. Not that I would do that, but the loads used could provide grist for the mill.
As always, send complaints to the circular file. If you disagree with the article, feel free to dredge up a period article and post it. If you find the PDF to text difficult (yes, it varies from spot on to mixed column and text order) at least post the link to the article....
Outer's Book - Recreation, vol 59, No. 5, Nov 1918 page 306
https://books.google.com/books?id=lH07AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA270&dq=ideal+32-40+rifle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bkWRVeP8CcSvogThlar4Aw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=ideal%2032-40%20rifle&f=false
Another Vermin Snipers Cartridge
by F.G. Black (nom de plume? Fg Black?)
I HAVE just read Mr. Chas. Askins’article on the vermin sniper’s cartridge and noted especially his remarks on the 25-25-86 Stevens cartridge, as it has been my favorite smallbore for more than 20 years. I have never used smokeless powder in this cartridge, mainly because I feared the consequences in cleaning the gun so it would not rust, but also because I got such good results from black powder that I was satisfied with them. I am a one-gun crank and being unable to afford a high grade, three-barrel gun, had a Stevens-Pope 25—21 barrel turned down to fit into the left barrel of my old Remington double, 12-bore, hammer gun. This Stevens-Pope barrel was given to me by a friend, as he could not get accurate shooting with it when using factory ammunition. I tried it out with black powder and lubricated lead bullets and found it shot very accurately for three or four shots, then very wild for succeeding shots unless carefully cleaned. It fouled badly with three or four shots and as I had formerly owned a Stevens 25-25 rifle that would shoot as many as 15 or 20 shots with the finest accuracy and no signs of freezing up I concluded the barrel and not the ammunition was at fault, though I have no doubt that the right load of smokeless powder would have produced accurate shooting from this barrel as it originally was. But I wanted to use black powder and lubricated lead bullets, so with lead and emery I lapped out the bore to such uniform diameter that no tight or loose spots could be detected when a bullet was pushed up and down in it. Fine emery and a lead about 3 inches long cast on the end of an iron rod having a revolving handle was carefully used and the result was entirely satisfactory, for with the same black powder loads the gun shot with accuracy for any number of shots and there is no hard, dry powder crust; it wipes out as freely after the twentieth shot as it does after two or three.
THIS barrel is now turned down to a fit in the 12-bore chamber of a shotgun. From that point it tapers sharply down to 5/8 in. diameter and then a straight taper to the muzzle, where it is 1/2 in. diameter. The barrel is 28 inches in length, weighs one and one-half pounds, has a left hand twist with one turn in thirteen inches and is now chambered for the 25-25 Stevens straight shell. The muzzle of the barrel is threaded and an eccentric collar is screwed on that fits the inside of the shot barrel closely. This eccentric collar corrects the inward pointing of the shot barrel so that the sighting for the rifle can be right down the middle of the rib. The sights on my gun are a Lyman rear on the grip, made to turn down forward out of the way, and a specially made, very low ivory bead front. The shot barrels are same length as the rifle barrel, 28 inches. There is nothing to hold the rifle barrel in the shot barrel except friction, the fitting being so well down that unless a rifle shell sticks quite out starting the rifle barrel with it. I want to give credit to the gunsmith who did this difficult work of turning down tight in the chamber, it will extract with-to such light weight and fitting so accurately that there is absolutely no fault to find with the job. He is Oscar Lindburg of the firm of Chas. Lindburg & Sons, Grand Rapids, Mich. [ed. uh, the second to last sentence is very poorly constructed]
Now as to the accuracy of this rifle. With Winchester 25-25—86 black powder ammunition at 150 yards, with the sights above mentioned, shooting from a good rest I have made a 10 shot group that measures 4 3/4 inches high by 7 inches wide. Nine of these are in 4 3/4 inches high by 4 inches wide; 8 of them are in 3 inches high by 4 inches wide.
Not a bad showing for such a barrel with factory cartridges, shells crimped into bullets at that. But that's not all. Without any change in lateral adjustment of the sights, using a hand-loaded reduced charge of about 13 grns. FF black powder, a dry felt wad cut from black edge gun wad and hand cast bullet of about 80 grns. seated friction tight in mouth of shell, a 10-shot group measuring 1 inch across the widest part was made, at a distance of 50 yards. Nine of these shots were bunched so closely that they tore the paper so there was a single hole about 3/4 inch across. This reduced charge shot so closely to the same vertical line as the full factory charge that no alteration of sights would be necessary in changing from one load to the other when hunting.
But I have met with dissappointmcnt in one respect. My old Stevens Ideal rifle loaded with 27 grains of FF black powder and pure lead 77 grn. standard flat point Ideal cast bullet, shot very fine. I have a target made with it using this load which shows 15 consecutive shots in a 2%-in. circle. All but the first shot, which is a little the highest of the group, are in a 1 3/4 -in. circle. The rifle had set triggers and when the above shooting was done it was with the barrel lying in V-shaped ways, not held down in any way and allowed to recoil as far as it would. It was pushed forward to the same position for each shot and there was an interval of probably 5 minutes between each shot while I went to mark the shot on target, which I forgot to state was 97 yards from the muzzle.
Now 27 grns. of black powder and a 77-grn. bullet is a pretty speedy combination in a 25-caliber, 28-inch barrel, for black powder it is, and I would be quite content with such a load in my auxiliary rifle barrel if it would even approximate the accuracy of the old Stevens, but it don't. It takes about a 12—inch circle to enclose 10 shots at 150 yds., when this load is shot in the auxiliary barrel. The Stevens was rifled with a 14-inch pitch, while the auxiliary is 13-inch pitch, and I suspect this quicker twist, quick-burning FF grain powder and short, light bullet form a combination that the light barrel will never handle with accuracy, no matter what the temper or fit or shape of bullet.
I HAVE tried hard bullets and soft ones and medium ones without success. I wanted to try F grain black powder but I guess it isn't to be had any more, for I can't find it in the market. And now I will get down to the reason why I have written all the foregoing. I would like Mr. Askins, or someone else who knows, to tell me if there is a smokeless powder that can be hand loaded in the 25-25 Stevens shell, using a 77 to 86-grain bullet, that will give velocity equal to, and no greater barrel pressure than the 27 grns. FF black powder, 80-grn. lead bullet load, and at the same time leave the barrel, after, say, 20 shots have been fired from it, as easy to clean, so it can be put away without fear of rusting, as is the case after using black powder? Another thing, would the same smokeless powder that is right for full charges, if there be one adapted to use in my 1 1/2— pound barrel, be good to use in reduced charges of about half the power of the full charge? And would it be necessary to use a special primer, or would the ordinary black powder primer do as well? What I want is one powder, one primer and one bullet for both full and reduced charges, that will give equal velocity, greater accuracy and no greater pressure at any point in the barrel than 27 grns. of FF black powder does when fired behind an 80-grn. lead bullet. And with all this I want a powder that after firing several shots will be as easily cleaned from the barrel without the employment of any special cleaning dope as is the moist residue of black powder.
In short, the OP went and had a rifle barrel machined and installed in his 12 gauge SxS. Not that I would do that, but the loads used could provide grist for the mill.
As always, send complaints to the circular file. If you disagree with the article, feel free to dredge up a period article and post it. If you find the PDF to text difficult (yes, it varies from spot on to mixed column and text order) at least post the link to the article....
Outer's Book - Recreation, vol 59, No. 5, Nov 1918 page 306
https://books.google.com/books?id=lH07AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA270&dq=ideal+32-40+rifle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bkWRVeP8CcSvogThlar4Aw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=ideal%2032-40%20rifle&f=false
Another Vermin Snipers Cartridge
by F.G. Black (nom de plume? Fg Black?)
I HAVE just read Mr. Chas. Askins’article on the vermin sniper’s cartridge and noted especially his remarks on the 25-25-86 Stevens cartridge, as it has been my favorite smallbore for more than 20 years. I have never used smokeless powder in this cartridge, mainly because I feared the consequences in cleaning the gun so it would not rust, but also because I got such good results from black powder that I was satisfied with them. I am a one-gun crank and being unable to afford a high grade, three-barrel gun, had a Stevens-Pope 25—21 barrel turned down to fit into the left barrel of my old Remington double, 12-bore, hammer gun. This Stevens-Pope barrel was given to me by a friend, as he could not get accurate shooting with it when using factory ammunition. I tried it out with black powder and lubricated lead bullets and found it shot very accurately for three or four shots, then very wild for succeeding shots unless carefully cleaned. It fouled badly with three or four shots and as I had formerly owned a Stevens 25-25 rifle that would shoot as many as 15 or 20 shots with the finest accuracy and no signs of freezing up I concluded the barrel and not the ammunition was at fault, though I have no doubt that the right load of smokeless powder would have produced accurate shooting from this barrel as it originally was. But I wanted to use black powder and lubricated lead bullets, so with lead and emery I lapped out the bore to such uniform diameter that no tight or loose spots could be detected when a bullet was pushed up and down in it. Fine emery and a lead about 3 inches long cast on the end of an iron rod having a revolving handle was carefully used and the result was entirely satisfactory, for with the same black powder loads the gun shot with accuracy for any number of shots and there is no hard, dry powder crust; it wipes out as freely after the twentieth shot as it does after two or three.
THIS barrel is now turned down to a fit in the 12-bore chamber of a shotgun. From that point it tapers sharply down to 5/8 in. diameter and then a straight taper to the muzzle, where it is 1/2 in. diameter. The barrel is 28 inches in length, weighs one and one-half pounds, has a left hand twist with one turn in thirteen inches and is now chambered for the 25-25 Stevens straight shell. The muzzle of the barrel is threaded and an eccentric collar is screwed on that fits the inside of the shot barrel closely. This eccentric collar corrects the inward pointing of the shot barrel so that the sighting for the rifle can be right down the middle of the rib. The sights on my gun are a Lyman rear on the grip, made to turn down forward out of the way, and a specially made, very low ivory bead front. The shot barrels are same length as the rifle barrel, 28 inches. There is nothing to hold the rifle barrel in the shot barrel except friction, the fitting being so well down that unless a rifle shell sticks quite out starting the rifle barrel with it. I want to give credit to the gunsmith who did this difficult work of turning down tight in the chamber, it will extract with-to such light weight and fitting so accurately that there is absolutely no fault to find with the job. He is Oscar Lindburg of the firm of Chas. Lindburg & Sons, Grand Rapids, Mich. [ed. uh, the second to last sentence is very poorly constructed]
Now as to the accuracy of this rifle. With Winchester 25-25—86 black powder ammunition at 150 yards, with the sights above mentioned, shooting from a good rest I have made a 10 shot group that measures 4 3/4 inches high by 7 inches wide. Nine of these are in 4 3/4 inches high by 4 inches wide; 8 of them are in 3 inches high by 4 inches wide.
Not a bad showing for such a barrel with factory cartridges, shells crimped into bullets at that. But that's not all. Without any change in lateral adjustment of the sights, using a hand-loaded reduced charge of about 13 grns. FF black powder, a dry felt wad cut from black edge gun wad and hand cast bullet of about 80 grns. seated friction tight in mouth of shell, a 10-shot group measuring 1 inch across the widest part was made, at a distance of 50 yards. Nine of these shots were bunched so closely that they tore the paper so there was a single hole about 3/4 inch across. This reduced charge shot so closely to the same vertical line as the full factory charge that no alteration of sights would be necessary in changing from one load to the other when hunting.
But I have met with dissappointmcnt in one respect. My old Stevens Ideal rifle loaded with 27 grains of FF black powder and pure lead 77 grn. standard flat point Ideal cast bullet, shot very fine. I have a target made with it using this load which shows 15 consecutive shots in a 2%-in. circle. All but the first shot, which is a little the highest of the group, are in a 1 3/4 -in. circle. The rifle had set triggers and when the above shooting was done it was with the barrel lying in V-shaped ways, not held down in any way and allowed to recoil as far as it would. It was pushed forward to the same position for each shot and there was an interval of probably 5 minutes between each shot while I went to mark the shot on target, which I forgot to state was 97 yards from the muzzle.
Now 27 grns. of black powder and a 77-grn. bullet is a pretty speedy combination in a 25-caliber, 28-inch barrel, for black powder it is, and I would be quite content with such a load in my auxiliary rifle barrel if it would even approximate the accuracy of the old Stevens, but it don't. It takes about a 12—inch circle to enclose 10 shots at 150 yds., when this load is shot in the auxiliary barrel. The Stevens was rifled with a 14-inch pitch, while the auxiliary is 13-inch pitch, and I suspect this quicker twist, quick-burning FF grain powder and short, light bullet form a combination that the light barrel will never handle with accuracy, no matter what the temper or fit or shape of bullet.
I HAVE tried hard bullets and soft ones and medium ones without success. I wanted to try F grain black powder but I guess it isn't to be had any more, for I can't find it in the market. And now I will get down to the reason why I have written all the foregoing. I would like Mr. Askins, or someone else who knows, to tell me if there is a smokeless powder that can be hand loaded in the 25-25 Stevens shell, using a 77 to 86-grain bullet, that will give velocity equal to, and no greater barrel pressure than the 27 grns. FF black powder, 80-grn. lead bullet load, and at the same time leave the barrel, after, say, 20 shots have been fired from it, as easy to clean, so it can be put away without fear of rusting, as is the case after using black powder? Another thing, would the same smokeless powder that is right for full charges, if there be one adapted to use in my 1 1/2— pound barrel, be good to use in reduced charges of about half the power of the full charge? And would it be necessary to use a special primer, or would the ordinary black powder primer do as well? What I want is one powder, one primer and one bullet for both full and reduced charges, that will give equal velocity, greater accuracy and no greater pressure at any point in the barrel than 27 grns. of FF black powder does when fired behind an 80-grn. lead bullet. And with all this I want a powder that after firing several shots will be as easily cleaned from the barrel without the employment of any special cleaning dope as is the moist residue of black powder.