.5 grains over maximum is it safe?

[maximus]

Hello guys I have reload for many years but never for 380. I use Lee dippers the smallest one is 3cc and will fit 3.5 grains of Titegroup.
the reloading chart form Hodgdone says 3.0 max load.
Would you go for it and put 3.5grains or not safe at all?

[frankenfab]

I'm not saying I wouldn't ever go over a max load listed in a book, but I would never start at the max load for sure. You can make dippers from cartridge cases and a piece of wire, trimming the case to get the volume you need.


.5 grain is 16.6% over that listed max load.

[osteodoc08]

Titegroup is a fast powder and exceeding max charges, especially to start would be ill advised. Do it right. Save your body parts.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The risk to body parts isn't great if you are going to hold the pistol in any conventional position. I think the odds are against any harm being done to it, but it might be. 3gr. is going to give you quite a bit more than 83.4% of the velocity, and plenty of people who know what they are doing have found it adequate.

I certainly wouldn't choose a load by the size of measure I had. You can always trim the edge of the dipper, or reduce it by pressure on a hot piece of metal.

[maximus]

Good idea I may sand it to make it shorter.

[osteodoc08]

An intentional overcharge with a fast powder in an auto loader is indeed risk to body parts. Especially if there is any amount of bullet setback after the fact. at least it is greater than I would undertake.

[jonp]

Safe? Probably.
Advisable? No

I go over max once in a while with certain pistols but I start well below max and cautiously work up. Stating there is asking for trouble as each gun is different.

The advice about trimming a cartridge down to use is a good one. Even better might be a lee powder measure and a scale or at least a scale

[w5pv]

I have a few hundred loaded with titegroup in the 2.0 range and they shoot fine under a 102 grain plain base lead bulet.I would never go over maxium in any load.In fact I consider the starting load to be my maxium in everthing I load

[knfmn]

I probably wouldn't do it, especially when .5 grain is SO much more than max. As others have said, be gentle on your gun and then work your way up. Even if the barrel is fine in the autoloader, the wear on the slide and other action parts is going to increase from the beating they take with that load. Be safe.

[pretzelxx]

Titegroup is good and fast. I put a slightly higher charge in my 9mm and it worked well. Be cautious, space capacity and all those other things tolerance stack quickly. Work a tenth of a grain to see how it works before a half a grain.

[Bzcraig]

Titegroup is a fast powder and exceeding max charges, especially to start would be ill advised. Do it right. Save your body parts.

^^^^^^great advise^^^^^^

[longbow]

Another option is to punch out cardboard discs that fit into your Lee dipper to displace a little volume without altering the dipper. They can be removed when you are done with loading that caliber. Of course you need a scale to make sure that you get the right displacement for proper charge.

It works for me anyway.

Something else is that you should check what the Lee dipper throws too. I have found that charges can vary considerably with different lots of powder so if you are already over by .5 gr. based on volume and the powder batch you get is a little denser then you may be over by .75 or even 1 gr. which is significant.

Play safe and confirm the charge you are actually throwing.

Longbow

[William Yanda]

There are methods of reducing the volume of your measure-a cardboard disc in the bottom or tape around the inside. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.

[country gent]

with out a proper work up I wouldnt consider starting at max or especially above it as a starting load. As stated above the 3.5 grn charge is 16.6% above max. While gun may take it for awhile its going to gretly shorten the pistols life.. DIppers can be adjusted with a snug fitting disc in the bottom ( make sure its snug and pushed in tight or powder will work under and around it. A stip or 2 of tape cellopane, masking , or duct tape depending on thickness needed. If the dipper is one dedicated to this it can be filed down or filled with epoxy also. A 32 pistol case or appropriate could also be used to make a dedicated dipper for this garge also. A pistol case some heavy wire for a handle a litttle solder or glue cut to throw charge wieght and your good to go. Before destroying a dipper I would really consider making one up.

[flounderman]

If you don't have a scale, you don't know what the weight of the charge is by measuring. I would never trust a dipper I hadn't weighed the amount it dipped before I used it. One of the first items you should have in reloading is a reliable scale.

[xacex]

I find the lee dippers, and the lee disks to drop a little on the shy side. It is advised to always measure to be safe. That being said the 380 case itself has been known to be able to handle over pressure. Your gun may not. There are many stories of people loading a 380 case with a 9mm load when one slips into the line up in a progressive press. I would not do this intentionally with a fast powder. I dont know what weight boolit you are using but just entering a 100 grain boolit with 3.5 of tightgroup in Quickload and it shows you are playing with a dangerous load. Do us a favor and don't shoot the ones you loaded if you have already loaded some.

[RogerDat]

Maximum by definition is the amount you should not go over. Starting load is by definition where one should start loading when trying a new load/powder/firearm combination.

Make a dipper either by modification of an existing dipper or using a spent shell. Either one will give you satisfactory results once you know the powder load that works best with your firearm so you can size dipper to throw that charge. Frankly with some powder measures and certain powders I'm not sure a dipper won't give more consistent results.

[MT Chambers]

I'd ditch the teaspoons and get a proper powder measure and a good scale, it's a safety thing.

[leeggen]

If you are asking that question on here then you in your own mind are nervous about trying
want one of us to say oh yea go ahead it won't hurt. You already know the answer!
CD

[rollmyown]

Would I overload anything by about 15%?

Nope.

[DrCaveman]

It is hard to believe that you have reloaded for years and own neither a scale nor a powder dispenser. Before doing any more reloading, drop what you are doing and go get one of each.

Not even gonna answer your question. Not being rude, just trying to set you up for success through knowing what you are actually putting into your rounds. The dipper volumes presented in the Lee manual mean DIDDLY to actual charge weights, in my experience. They weight out both higher and lower than indicated.

[Horace]

No!
Horace

[Freeandcold]

Sorry to pile on... But, I hope this helps to keep you safely enjoying reloading.
Never start at a max published load.
Be careful when close to max load... Rework up if any components are changed.
Never ever start above max published loads.
Always use a scale to (at a minimum) verify thrown charges.
At max loads consider weighing each charge.

Also, dippers can be modified or made with modified spent shells...
My experience with dippers is that they get me in the ball park so I can trickle to my desired charge... And that the published weights for a dipper are at best "kinda close"... Not good enough for near max loads...

Now for black powder... A different discussion entirely...

[Yodogsandman]

Can we just start calling you lefty now?

[smoked turkey]

While it is true that some of our loading information has been tempered by a lawyer somewhere, I would not knowingly go over maximum charge listed in a trusted source of information. The powder manufacturers have spent untold thousands of dollars in time and on measurement equipment prior to publishing their loading information. I don't think my meager equipment or my gut feel is worth contesting their laboratory results or their ballistic statisticians. Especially if my equipment is a set of Lee dippers. BTW I use my dippers a lot but I almost always verify each charge scooped with my digital scale. In short No it is not safe and don't do it. Start at the low end of the scale and be easy on yourself and your gun. I'll wager the load will do what you need it to do.

[Hickory]

I have known at least 4 people who have hurt themselves, lost fingers or have been blinded with this loading practices.
Don't do it.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I don't think a dipper of the correct size is intrinsically any more dangerous than a rotary measure. It is unlikely to be quite as accurate, and certainly won't actually cut individual grains as some measures will. But dangerous overloads, such as can be produced by an extra movement or part-movement of the measure handle, can't happen.

[MT Gianni]

Dangerous overloads can happen by picking up the wrong dipper. Start with a good scale.

[mozeppa]

its been many times stated that NO firearm ever shoots to its best potential by loading to the max or exceeding max.

too dangerous ...not worth it....costly...not accurate ....what good is missing your target at 2 times the speed of sound?

[Char-Gar]

Max loads are not safe unless tested and proven so in an individual handgun. That is why we work up to max loads. If max loads are not safe, then .5 grains over max certainly would not be.

Don't do it! Certainly not for the sake of a cheap plastic dipper.

If you don't have a powder scale, stop reloading until you do.

[duckey]

Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread yet, but have you weighed what your dipper is dipping? I started loading .40 S&W with the Lee Dippers and then switched to a Lee a Perfect Powder Measure. The dipper was higher than what the CC to GN conversion should have been, not by much.

[Golfswithwolves]

It is difficult with some cartridges to know for sure what "Maximum" should be. If you go by the standard manuals for .44 Special for example you find one set of SAAMI approved values for the recommended loads. We find however that the long-used "Skeeter" load is considerably above the SAAMI maximum, yet it has a reputation for being a safe load. Should we stick with the lower loads in this case? I cannot answer.

[bangerjim]

Why even ask? Max loads are there for a reason!!!!!!

"Shim" your dipper, or get a good powder measure and throw those stupid plastic spoons away.

When I got into uber-light loads I made several custom dippers out of 22LR cases cut to different lengths with brass welding rod silver soldered on the side. Works GREAT! Have several for every powder I use.

You can do the same thing for odd "MAX" loads with the appropriate brass case.

banger

[FromTheWoods]

"It is hard to believe that you have reloaded for years and own neither a scale nor a powder dispenser. Before doing any more reloading, drop what you are doing and go get one of each." DrCaveman

With Titegroup you want to go over max--16.6%! And without weighing! Your original question posted in jest? ----Yes, load it, and use the insurance money paid for lost fingers, etc to purchase a powder scale. (And that last sentence is a joke. Not meant to be nasty.)

[bedbugbilly]

+1 to what longbow said.

Instead of sanding your dipper and ruining it . . . put the cardboard spacers in the bottom until it dips the correct charge. As you already know . . . "being consistent" with the dipper . . . doing it the same way each time . . is everything. I sometimes use the dippers but I have found that what the Lee chart says and what I actually come up with can vary. (I check often with a scale).

Another alternative is if you are going to be loading you .380 and can finalize your charge once you work it up, make a dipper out of a .22 rimfire casing. I keep a supply of brass on hand just for making dippers. 22 LR, .25 ACP, .32 ACP, etc. make excellent dippers. Either solder a handle on to them or on the ACP casings, wrap a wire tightly around the ejector groove for a handle. If you don't want to file the casing . . . glue in cardboard cut out with a casing until it throws the correct charge.

I push the dipper into the powder (pour a quantity into a tupperware container) and then raise up and stick off on a piece of brass rod that I place in two holes that i've drilled in the sides of the tupperware for the rod to slide in to so that it is easy to strike off the charge. I practice each time . . . measure and strike then weigh. Even being consistent, I find that I can be off a tenth of a grain or so . . . but I never load near max so I'm still within the range between Minimum and Maximum.

[Wayne Smith]

Unanimity is so rare. I'm glad to see it here.

[Lumpy grits]

What is it about MAXIMUM, that you DON'T understand or grasp the concept of? :veryconfu
LG

[runfiverun]

TITEGROUP COMPRESSED IN A SMALL CASE==== BOMB.
period.


I blew up a 9mm handgun [on purpose] with 4 grs of the stuff, that's a slightly larger case than your using.

[bangerjim]

hummmmmmm........no word back from the OP......post and run?

Mabe he blew himself up!?!?!?!?!?!?

After all the sage advise here, we would hope not!

banger

[osteodoc08]

hummmmmmm........no word back from the OP......post and run?

Mabe he blew himself up!?!?!?!?!?!?

After all the sage advise here, we would hope not!

banger

I would hope not. There is knowledge to be gained. I think that we are just concerned and we (as a whole) are often very hard on inadvisable practices.

[303Guy]

Another option is to punch out cardboard discs that fit into your Lee dipper to displace a little volume without altering the dipper.Good one.

I once overloaded a 380 auto. I still have all my body parts but I can't say the same for the gun. OK it didn't blow up but I did note that it was recoiling somewhat awesome. After shooting a few rounds and taking the gun home I found the problem. I had loaded the wrong boolits! Too heavy. The gun showed significant damage on the locking lugs. I filed the burrs down and left it like that, still working with normal loads.

So, no, do not overload by 16%. Don't even load it to max. Load it only enough to reliable eject the spent cases in a neat pile. Defence loads can be as high as it will go safely but one only ever fires two or three of those. Make that a full magazine. That should only happen once in a lifetime.

P.S. I solved the overweight boolit problem by skimming the round nose down to a flat nose in a jig I made. They shot pretty accurately too. The gun in question was a Star DKL. Lovely little carry gun.

[Bullwolf]

It's really quite easy to make a custom powder dipper.

Here's a dipper I made from a trimmed down 32 S&W case, a piece of welding rod, and a short section of wooden dowel.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143327&d=1435735916

I just trimmed down a 32 S&W case, and kept checking until it would scoop 3.5 grains of Bullseye. I made this dipper for 38 Special, but I still double check the dipper alongside my powder scale. I often wish Lee sold individual scoops for custom projects, like the ones that came in the old Lee hand load single caliber kits.

http://www.gunthorp.com/images/Lee%20loader%20kit.jpg

While I do own a complete Lee scoop set, I rarely use it anymore. I have occasionally done the cut out paper discs to decrease the scoop volume trick though. I used the Lee scoops more often back when I was loading 12 Gauge slugs.


- Bullwolf