With Condor?

[KCSO]

I see that California has expanded the lead ban in Condor zones to include 22's and all muzzleloaders. Hey Now you M/L and 22 owners in CA are victims of a gun ban! We knew this would never happen didn't we?

[Duckiller]

Until we get Barnes X bullets or similar projectiles a whole bunch of use Calif. gun owners are victims of a gun band. At least if we want to go hunting where a condor may fly. Can still (for now) shoot lead containing projectiles at ranges. The rules are absurd and the Fish And Game Commission (those people that I thought were supposed to look after my hunting and fishing rights) expanded the ban to include M/L and 22RF. Should not have been surprised after what they have done and are doing to my ocean fishing rights. If fish live there you can't fish there. Must convince SWMBO and children to move out of this state.

[xtimberman]

I just don't get it. Every time I go to California, I always meet fine level-headed folks who live in a wonderful place with lots of interesting things to do - and a lot of laws and politicians telling you not to do a lot of things and taxing the heck out of everything they can think of!

Obviously, I'm not meeting the crazy folks. I see some of them in the big cities, but in the smaller places, I seem to meet good folks like the rest of us. CA elected Ronald Reagan governor for two terms. Who are all those folks voting for now? You must have a lot of conservative-types out there who choose not to vote. You've recently ditched a crooked Gov. and have had several successful tax referenda.

Don't give CA up. It's still one of the 50 states - last time I looked at the list.

xtm

[softpoint]

Some folks on other forums have suggested hunters just shoot the big buzzards on sight, They are going to become extinct anyway, and no great loss. After they are gone, they say, no more reason for a lead ban. Of course this is Kalifornia we are talking about,

[KCSO]

Just Kalifornia? Wait till someone finds another dead eagle with traces of lead.

[leftiye]

Some folks on other forums have suggested hunters just shoot the big buzzards on sight,


Then they'd have lead poisoning!

[dakotashooter2]

Just Kalifornia? Wait till someone finds another dead eagle with traces of lead.


THAT is what I don't get. The Condors are supposedly dying from lead consumed in carrion, yet no other birds of prey are being found or reported with lead poisoning. Numbers wise, one would think that eagles and hawks are more likely to find and feed on a lead ridden (:roll:) carcass than a Condor. Something smells and it isn't the carrion.

[xtimberman]

Bills signed and laws passed by agenda-driven politics are the absolute worst! You can almost never get them repealed because the proponents always have a wave of emotional anecdotes and heart-wrenching photos to toss up to the opponents.

Lead shot, freon, incandescent light bulbs, and so on. It's for the children, you know.

xtm

[9.3X62AL]

Agenda-driven ANYTHING is usually a farked-up mess. I'm all for the "Condor Kevorkian" idea, since our wingnut/fruitbat Fish & Game Commissions won't allow the poor things to die with dignity. It's like trying CPR at an autopsy.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I saw the Disney, or perhaps only Disneyesque, movie, "The Boy Who Flew with Condors" many years ago and thought they were interesting birds. Further study taught me they are just big buzzards, and that their ecological niche has disapeared. There are no longer large herds of elk and antelope filling the Central Valley, and there aren't many dead whales washing up on California beaches these days. Nor have any giant bison, huge ground sloths, or mammoths been sighted since the pre-Indians invented SUVs 10,000 years ago. No carrion, no condors.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't fish and game COMMISSIONS political appointees, and therefore vulnerable to Sierra Club pressure? The DEPARTMENT of Fish and Game personnel are the professionals, who are probably very tired of condors.

[softpoint]

We have buzzards here in Texas that eat gutpiles from hunters ALL THE TIME, and we really have too many buzzards, the darkheaded mexican buzzards are aggressive and will attack young livestock. None of our vultures seem to be dying from lead poison,unless the are bothering livestock, and then it's intentional lead poison.! Of course, we don't have a taxpayer funded BPA (Buzzard Protection Agency) like California. I think maybe it's a good idea for people to shoot the darn things to protest a STUPID law ,if nothing else.
Gee, I dunno...maybe we ought to feel sorry for people who have nothing better to do than to GO OUT ON A LIMB FOR A BUZZARD.What kind of life can people like that possibly have?
And I don't even want to know the people who perform autopsies on buzzards to see what they died from!

[flhroy]

To help in the condor recovery effort I found that there are rearing facilities at the Washington park Zoo in Portland OR and at Birds of Prey out side of Caldwell ID. This is so they can diverify the gene pool. Now we would't to have inbred condors now would we? I mean maybe they would become even more unable to take care of themselves.

[MT Gianni]

Condors are fowl so either a white or red wine would be acceptable.

[PatMarlin]

Until we get Barnes X bullets or similar projectiles a whole bunch of use Calif. gun owners are victims of a gun band. At least if we want to go hunting where a condor may fly. Can still (for now) shoot lead containing projectiles at ranges. The rules are absurd and the Fish And Game Commission (those people that I thought were supposed to look after my hunting and fishing rights) expanded the ban to include M/L and 22RF. Should not have been surprised after what they have done and are doing to my ocean fishing rights. If fish live there you can't fish there. Must convince SWMBO and children to move out of this state.

They are shutting down my offshore salmon sport fishing indefinitely, but guess what... it's Oregon also.

Don't be fooled into a false sense of security. These bans are going nationwide in some form or another, eventually.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I may have mentioned this before in the other bird threads: it's not about the condors, or the lead, or bird extinction, or anything else related to condors. IT IS ABOUT THE GUNS.
Did anyone take note of the analysis of dead birds that also listed copper and zinc? Or of power lines killing as many as the evil lead. You watch, the next thing is to define acceptable bullets out of existence, now that they have banned lead bullets.
It's the consent of the governed that makes the ban work.
You think sm-13 is going to stop shooting lead & copper because of silly laws? BvT

[danski26]

Ring Ring.....hello? Mr Darwin? Are the stupid Condors fit for survival????

[dakotashooter2]

Now we would't to have inbred condors now would we? I mean maybe they would become even more unable to take care of themselves.

Bingo...... The last I read, condors were still unable to successfully rear offspring in the wild. They not only have difficulty breeding in the wild but care of the nest/eggs and chicks (if they hatch) has been wholey unsuccessfull. As I understand the few chicks that have hatched generally starve to death within a few days. ALL existing condors are captive bred and raised birds and I believe much of the natural instinct is probably gone. Amazingly at least one of the latest birds to die was found to have it's stomach full of junk. Bottle caps, bits of metal, plastic and etc. which caused it,s death.

[leftiye]

Probly too dern dumb to find real food?

[montana_charlie]

Amazingly at least one of the latest birds to die was found to have it's stomach full of junk. Bottle caps, bits of metal, plastic and etc. which caused it,s death.
Probly too dern dumb to find real food?
Consider this...
Today, if a whale (or a whole herd of them) gets 'beached', those who feel the need to 'manage Nature' so everything happens 'naturally' will expend effort and dollars to 'save the stranded'.

If they (the various types of 'huggers') would stay out of it, many condors (and other fauna) could get tons of nutrition from dead sea life...and it may take something the size of a whale to catch a condor's attention.

But, no...
Either the animal(s) must be prevented from committing some form of nature-inspired suicide...

Or, if rescue fails...

The beaches must be immediately cleansed of any form of 'animal residue' so that the tourist industry will not suffer.
(We don need no steenking whale meat!)

If the 'huggers' would just stop 'hugging', the things they want to hug would probably be much better off...or would go extinct...which seems to be what Nature has been trying to accomplish with the condor.

Instead of banning lead bullets, it would be more helpful (for condors) to ban clean-up crews from condor habitat.
CM

[Ghugly]

I think it's a damned shame that there are no more mastodons, giant ground sloths, dodo birds, passenger pigeons, etc., etc, and, of course, etc.. The extinction of the California Condor is just one more in a long, long list. The idea of turning thousands of square miles of the U.S. into a giant aviarie in an attempt to delay the inevitable would be kind of funny, if we weren't actually doing it.

[Ghugly]

I see that California has expanded the lead ban in Condor zones to include 22's and all muzzleloaders. Hey Now you M/L and 22 owners in CA are victims of a gun ban! We knew this would never happen didn't we?

I'm ashamed to admit it. You pegged me, exactly. Other than firing of a quick e-mail or three, I didn't do a damned thing to stop it. I made the mistake of reading the bill and finding it so damned dopey that I just couldn't take it seriously. I knew there was no way that the Governator would sign it.

I now know that there is no proposed law that is too stupid to be taken seriously.

[Ed Barrett]

They should try to get a bill through to limit the human population in the condors range. The huggers like to tell other people what to do but wouldn't give up their homes or vacation spots. Look at the Kennedy clan and the wind farms in Mass.

[9.3X62AL]

What is REALLY needed--in addition to a natural die-out of the condors--is a die-out of the wingnut eco-freaks and trendy leftists spawned at Cal-Berzerkley during the 1960's.

[montana_charlie]

What is REALLY needed--
--is a die-out of the wingnut eco-freaks and trendy leftists.
That could provide a windfall in condor nutrition. I understand they do well on any kind of meat...even that from vegetarians.
CM

[HORNET]

I dunno 'bout that. I think that there are some things even a buzzard won't touch....

[DanWalker]

I saw this idiocy firsthand when I worked as a biologist on Catalina Island in 2002.
We were killing feral hogs and goats and were made to use barnes bullets because of the fear that eagles might ingest the lead from our bullets.
We also had one endangered species KILLING another out there. The bald eagles we were also trying to rehabilitate and reestablish, were preying on the catalina foxes that I was also working with.
As long as we keep leeting people with an agenda(Walt Disney,the Sierra club,etc...) educate the population about nature, we'll keep getting moronic decisions like the one you're describing.
My current pet peeve is "The Marine Mammal Stranding Network". These are the crying hippie kids you see shoving stranded dolphins back into the water. NEWSFLASH.....These animals came ashore for a reason...they're too sick to swim and are there to DIE. When I was in college my professor used to go to these strandings. He'd have his doctor bag with him. All the hippie kids would look to him for guidance. He'd tell them he was just going to give the animal an injection to ease it's pain. That was sorta true. He'd hit flipper with a massive dose of phenobarbitol, and in a very short time ALL the pain was gone from the animal, and it died a dignified death.
The hippie kids would all have a good cry over their bong hits, and he'd get some tissue samples and maybe some blood samples.
I hope to one day be able to stand over one of these hippie morons while they're lying in a hospital bed, too sick to even stand. I'll then drag him out of bed, and try to stand him up. then, when he collapses, or tries to crawl back into bed, I'll do it again.
I wonder if they'd show that on the news?
I could make myself a T shirt and found,"The Sick Hippie Stranding Network"

[waksupi]

Reminds me of when the envirowackos were concerned about lead at one of our national rendezvous. Thier solution? We had to sit of a pile of straw bales, with half inch plywood in front, so we could catch the bullets. They didn't know much about muzzleloaders, ovbiously. We did as they asked, ruined a bunch of plywood, and scattered straw quite aways. And we all had a big laugh over it. Bet they never caught on.

[montana_charlie]

These animals came ashore for a reason...they're too sick to swim and are there to DIE.
Maybe the strandings happen when Mother Nature plants a message in the brain that says, "Crawl up on the beach and die, because my Condors are hungry."

But, the huggers come along to screw up the whole train of events...and then wonder why Condors are eating bottle caps.
CM