Allstate patents spying on driver's physio data

[ohland]

Ah, the joys of an omnipresent monitor, in your car, on your wrist, NSA....

http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/28.73.html#subj8.1

Henry Baker <hbaker1@pipeline.com> Mon, 22 Jun 2015 16:20:09 -0700FYI—"George Orwell wrote this, right?", says Bob Hunter, insurance
director for Consumer Federation of America.

"The invention also teaches the monitoring and recording of data from
onboard cameras and proximity sensors, as well as driver physiological
monitoring systems. Also included within the invention is predictive
modeling of future behavior as a function of recorded data an individual
driver compared with other drivers within a database."

[runfiverun]

modeling of future behavior,,,,,,, great.[the thought police are on duty]
glad I only got about 20 more years in me.

[mold maker]

Future thoughts are tempered by past memories. My memories are finding hiding places, does that mean my thoughts are loosing their temper?

[smokeywolf]

As it is difficult or next to impossible to disable the electronics in the newer cars that enable OnStar type agencies and therefore government alphabet agencies to spy on you. The Mrs. and I will keep our older vehicles as long as possible or attempt to replace with used from pre-digital OnStar/GPS and the like technology.

[OldFogey]

Not a problem around my house. All I can afford is old "junkers" anyway.

[MaryB]

I have been looking at a mid 90's jeep CJ. I would rip out the computer controlled motor and drop in a 350 with a carb. Keep it simple, not need much for spare parts...

[w5pv]

I quit Allstate in the early sixties,I had insurance with them for years,never a claim,and was about 3 months from being discharged from the Army,I sent a payment and put my Army return adress on the envolope and they canceled me becase I was in the Army.They said they would reconsider me after I was discharged.My parents usually paid the premium from our home adress,no problem.That was when you paid for insurance by the year and not the month.I stayed with the next insurance agent for the next forty years and then went to another agent after the first one died because he was a personal friend of the daughters and have been with him for about 25 years,

[bubba.50]

tied in with that, the auto industry is workin' feverishly to get laws passed to prevent you from workin' on yer own car so that you can't disable "big brother".

[dragon813gt]

tied in with that, the auto industry is workin' feverishly to get laws passed to prevent you from workin' on yer own car so that you can't disable "big brother".

Got any links to articles about this?

[bubba.50]

no I don't & wouldn't know how to post them if I did. just type in "auto industry laws to prevent owners from working on their own cars" or anything similar & you'll get pages of links.

[Bad Water Bill]

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Perhaps I should reconsider keeping BOTH of the 1981 VW Rabbit Diesel 5 speed pickups with camper caps.:bigsmyl2:

[big bore 99]

I quit Allstate in the early sixties,I had insurance with them for years,never a claim,and was about 3 months from being discharged from the Army,I sent a payment and put my Army return adress on the envolope and they canceled me becase I was in the Army.They said they would reconsider me after I was discharged.My parents usually paid the premium from our home adress,no problem.That was when you paid for insurance by the year and not the month.I stayed with the next insurance agent for the next forty years and then went to another agent after the first one died because he was a personal friend of the daughters and have been with him for about 25 years,

This also happened to me. I got drafted in 1969 and when I got out and tried to get insurance again they refused me. I went with St. Farm and have been with them since.

[snuffy]

I signed up for in-drive with St. Farm insurance. I've been with St Farm all my life, since 1965.

It's a module that plugs into the test port on my Saturn Vue. Immediate 5% discount, further discounts if I drive well under the 10,000 mile/year I'm at right now. It keeps track of my driving habits as well as I suppose some other things. No bio readings though, but so what? I've nothing to hide.

[Blammer]

So you are assuming the source of this is reliable?

Onion perhaps?

[smokeywolf]

30+ years ago my folks were with Allstate on their home. Had the policy for some 30 years. Pipe broke and flooded most of the house. Allstate said, even before the carpet got wet it was used and used carpet is worth next to nothing, so that was what Allstate gave them. Insurance agents are your best friend while they're selling. Then, when there's a claim they give you the long face and say, "I'm really sorry, but that's the best we can do."

Back when the insurance companies paid off the gov't to allow them to surcharge after a claim. That's when the insurance companies became no better than an organized criminal racket that you pay protection money to.

You pay premiums to cover you in case you have an accident. Then, when you have an accident you find out that those premiums you've been paying for 10 or 20 years weren't to cover you in case you had a claim. They were pure profit for the insurance company, because now that you've had a claim they're going to surcharge you on top of your premium until you pay back the amount of the claim.

About 12 years ago when the stock market started imploding, because insurance companies are the biggest stock holders in the U.S., most insurance companies jacked up the homeowner policy rates 10 to 20%. Not because of increased risk, but just to make up for their losses in the stock market.

How do they get away with all this? Because nearly all politicians work for those who bribe them, not for those who vote for them. And SCOTUS has ruled that bribing politicians is a constitutional right, protected by the 1st amendment.

[dragon813gt]

I signed up for in-drive with St. Farm insurance. I've been with St Farm all my life, since 1965.

It's a module that pligs into the test port on my Saturn Vue. Immediate 5% discount, further discounts if I drive well under the 10,000 mile/year I'm at right now. It keeps track of my driving habits as well as I suppose some other things. No bio readings though, but so what? I've nothing to hide.

Proof right here that they don't need to force this on us. Sheep willingly sign up. You're willing to give up your privacy for a 5% discount? I have seven vehicles on my policy and 5% off that sure as hell isn't worth it. Eventually this technology will be a requirement to have an insurance policy. Thanks for starting us down that path.

[Garyshome]

I've been looking for a 67 chevy pick up lately.

[jonp]

I have Allstate now. Got it when I moved to the south. My daughter recently totaled my truck in another state. I called them and the 1st woman I talked to was awful. They cant do anything till monday ( it was saturday ), she wasnt on my policy, yada yada yada...She also had one of the most annoying voices I have ever heard. I cut her off and told to put her supervisor on the phone. After explaing my daughter just got back from the sandbox which is why she was not on the policy and only had 2 weeks leave to get home and no car which is why she was in my truck he bent over backwards to help. Got an agent licensed in my state to immediately add her on so I was covered, helped find her a hotel and said the adjuster would call me the next day which she did. When the rental company would not give her a car for some reason but would rent her one for $100/day I called Allstate. Allstate said "not even close, we will handle it" and she was in a car less than one hour later no out of pocket. The adjuster called me next day, went over to the tow companies yard, declared it a total and called me that day. I had a check cut and in my hand for much more than expected by the end of the next week.

The whole thing was top notch from start to finish.

[FISH4BUGS]

I have been driving Mercedes diesels for well over 30 years. Currently I drive a 1987 Mercedes 300 diesel with 413,000 miles on it. I bought it with a shade over 100,000 on it 10 years ago. Religiously maintained it with oil and filter changes every 3000 miles. It still doesn't burn a drop of oil and purrs like a diesel should. I did the body over 2 years ago and this car is reliable as all get out.
I LOVE the older Benz cars because there are next to no electronics on it. The biggest electronic piece is the cruise control and the heat/AC control. They are just old fashioned printed circuit boards. Both have been rebuilt by geeky engineers in California - TWICE! Yank 'em out, send them, they fix them and they send them back. They test and replace if need be every resistor, diode and transistor on the board. Reinstall and you are good to go.
I once had an alternator let go as I left Buffalo NY. It got darker and darker as the battery ran down. I jumped off the NY State Thruway into a motel before it got really dark. I just parked it, locked it up, and let it idle all night. Got in the next morning and drove away. No muss no fuss. These diesels have a mechanical injection system so who needs any electronics?
I'll stick with the older diesels, thanks. Starting to look for a good used 99 or so.

[perotter]

I have been looking at a mid 90's jeep CJ. I would rip out the computer controlled motor and drop in a 350 with a carb. Keep it simple, not need much for spare parts...

You could replace the engines current electronics with a MegaSquirt or MicroSquirt DIY ECU. That would be cheaper, give modern electronics/fuel system, allow for E85 if desired and for you to be in control. The price is about $160 for one that you solder to $650 for ready to run.

http://www.megamanual.com/MSFAQ.htm

http://www.diyautotune.com/faq/megasquirt_efi_ecu_options_diyefi.htm

[dkf]

Got any links to articles about this?

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/automakers-gearheads-car-repairs/

[dragon813gt]

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/automakers-gearheads-car-repairs/

From reading that it sounds like they're trying to lock down the ECUs more than anything. There was mention of a diagnostic tool in there as well. Which makes sense because it talks to the ECU. I'm definitely not for this. Most of my vehicles are chipped to one level or another. And I have a laptop that mimics a factory VW scan tool.

The one argument I'm not buying is the rolling back of the odometers. I can only speak for VW but I'd imagine the other manufacturers are the same way. The clusters can only have mileage coded into them once. And even then you need the factory SKU that came w/ the car, used cars won't have it since the original owner most likely lost it as it didn't look like something important. Clusters aren't cheap. And you can't do it yourself anymore. You need a factory scan tool as it talks to directly to the manufacturer. This is one area they have locked down. If other makers are more lax then they're foolish.

All in all that's very bad news is lobbyists get this shoved through. It will really hurt the aftermarket industry. The local mechanic won't really be effected because they haven't been able to do much since the early 2000s. They can do preventative mechanical repairs but any electronics, like coding a key, has to be done at the dealer.

[snuffy]

Proof right here that they don't need to force this on us. Sheep willingly sign up. You're willing to give up your privacy for a 5% discount? I have seven vehicles on my policy and 5% off that sure as hell isn't worth it. Eventually this technology will be a requirement to have an insurance policy. Thanks for starting us down that path.

Privacy? Me a sheeple? GRRRRRR. How does me proving I'm a good driver and that I don't drive as much anymore make me a sheeple? What do you have to hide about your driving habits that you couldn't/can't stand the scrutiny of someone knowing how you drive?:mad:

I wish some of the people I'm dodging in the streets of Oshkosh had some sort of monitor on their vehicle, they'd be jerked off the streets. We've had a bunch of round-a-bouts installed lately. New intersections are getting them all the time. I love them as long as everybody knows how they work! Idiots that screech to a halt while in the roundabout, or stop, look, then proceed only when the entire roundabout is empty! Usually an old grandma. Or like last week an old granny pulled out right in front of me while I was in the inside lane going straight out from a left turn. Left some rubber on the road that time, dog on the floor from his seat!!

I'm glad you can afford 5% extra on all of your cars. I have one and it's a help to my limited income. It'll help more if I get additional reduction from driving less. I suspect additional help should I ever have an accident, my documented good driving record via the in-drive system might get me a better outcome.

[dkf]

From reading that it sounds like they're trying to lock down the ECUs more than anything. There was mention of a diagnostic tool in there as well. Which makes sense because it talks to the ECU. I'm definitely not for this. Most of my vehicles are chipped to one level or another. And I have a laptop that mimics a factory VW scan tool.

The one argument I'm not buying is the rolling back of the odometers. I can only speak for VW but I'd imagine the other manufacturers are the same way. The clusters can only have mileage coded into them once. And even then you need the factory SKU that came w/ the car, used cars won't have it since the original owner most likely lost it as it didn't look like something important. Clusters aren't cheap. And you can't do it yourself anymore. You need a factory scan tool as it talks to directly to the manufacturer. This is one area they have locked down. If other makers are more lax then they're foolish.

All in all that's very bad news is lobbyists get this shoved through. It will really hurt the aftermarket industry. The local mechanic won't really be effected because they haven't been able to do much since the early 2000s. They can do preventative mechanical repairs but any electronics, like coding a key, has to be done at the dealer.

They don't like the aftermarket for tuning yeah. But the dealer can see if and when the vehicle was reflashed even if you leave no hardware on the vehicle. It shows up on their diagnostic software if the tech knows where to look. Most of the car manufacturers do a pretty crappy job of tuning their vehicles. Slow lagging shifts, lazy and frequent TQ locking and unlocking, short shifting for gas mileage, adding delay into the DBW system and even when at full throttle the throttle body blade may not be all the way open and etc. The DBW vehicles are some of the worse, floor it to pull out quick or something and vehicle sits their and has a shifting seizure until it finally decides to go. Annoying and dangerous IMO. That is why I have a custom tune on my truck, it makes it work much better and I see lower trans temps as a result.

You are not going to roll back the odometer. If you need a new one for some reason the dealer can't even adjust the new one for your current mileage. The car companies are just trying to lock in more profit.

The cars have been slowly transitioning to throwaway units as each new model year comes out. I visually look over models from 10-15 years ago and compare them with current models. Lots of corners are cut and parts are eliminated to save cost and make more people take their vehicles to the dealer for simple fluid changes. You can look and feel the parts old vs new and tell they are more cheesy. Favorites of the car companies to eliminate is engine oil and transmission oil dip sticks, fuel filters, under hood lights, ashtrays and etc. they will keep bundling more and more replacement parts into sub assemblies, thus you can't buy the part you need but have to buy the whole assembly.

All the buzzers, chimes, monitors and other **** bug the **** out of me. I'm no piker. I appreciate and use technology and can see the advantages. I just don't like taking simple things, complicating them for no real reason and then having to pay more money down the road to fix something that really did not need to be there. (nor did I want there)

I figure probably 20+ years or so down the road you will not buy a new car. You'll lease it for the term and then trade the complex piece of **** in for another new throwaway. I feel this is what the auto companies ultimately want.

[smokeywolf]

One more thing, once the automakers get the legislators they've bought to make it illegal for anyone but the dealer to perform service or repair on your car, they'll put their engineers to work, designing failure points and service points into the vehicle so that your car won't run for a year without having to take it in for a $500.00 service procedure. Oh, and while you're here we'll do an oil change for less than $100.00; $99.99-9/10.

[bubba.50]

my wife's new van already doesn't have a dipstick for the trans and only 2000 miles after the last change it dings & tells me to change the oil every time ya start it up.

[MaryB]

NO electronics is the goal. Or very minimal and easy to swap like an ignition module! This thing may be fording up past the bottom of the windshield on the trails here. It will have snorkels for exhaust and intake that go to top of the roll bar.


You could replace the engines current electronics with a MegaSquirt or MicroSquirt DIY ECU. That would be cheaper, give modern electronics/fuel system, allow for E85 if desired and for you to be in control. The price is about $160 for one that you solder to $650 for ready to run.

http://www.megamanual.com/MSFAQ.htm

http://www.diyautotune.com/faq/megasquirt_efi_ecu_options_diyefi.htm

[garym1a2]

I don't buy it, most cars made nowdays are much more reliable than the cars of the 60's, 70' and 80's. My Toyota 2009 is running very strong at 173k miles. Its also very easy to work on. Nowdays you can buy very streetable cars with 400 to 700hp than also get decent milage.

[leeggen]

Snuffy just drive 10,100 miles a year and see what they charge you. You will probably be dropped for lieing on the policy. They gather lots of infor. from those little plugins. In an accident it will tell them everything you were doing, speed, braking, turning, where the throtle wasand what your heading was.
CD

[smokeywolf]

I don't buy it, most cars made nowdays are much more reliable than the cars of the 60's, 70' and 80's. My Toyota 2009 is running very strong at 173k miles. Its also very easy to work on. Nowdays you can buy very streetable cars with 400 to 700hp than also get decent milage.

My '79 Camaro was very reliable, got 20 miles to the gallon, only reason I got rid of it was it had 420,000 on it, and the ex who owned it for 2-1/2 years before I could buy it back from her, had screwed up the interior to a fare-thee-well.

[mtnman31]

I signed up for in-drive with St. Farm insurance. I've been with St Farm all my life, since 1965.

It's a module that pligs into the test port on my Saturn Vue. Immediate 5% discount, further discounts if I drive well under the 10,000 mile/year I'm at right now. It keeps track of my driving habits as well as I suppose some other things. No bio readings though, but so what? I've nothing to hide.

I've got plenty to hide. I am a habitual speeder. The world is my racetrack. LOL
Seriously, I do drive fast although not recklessly. I'm safe - no accidents, other than a motorcycle spill on gravel. If an insurance company could monitor my driving habits, they'd drop me and I'd be riding my bicycle everywhere.

[Geraldo]

Proof right here that they don't need to force this on us. Sheep willingly sign up. You're willing to give up your privacy for a 5% discount? I have seven vehicles on my policy and 5% off that sure as hell isn't worth it. Eventually this technology will be a requirement to have an insurance policy. Thanks for starting us down that path.

Give up privacy? I don't call mileage, speed, and braking big privacy issues. The reason I won't sign up for it is that SF charges a monthly fee that would exceed the 5% discount.

Again fulfilling my duty as Captain Obvious, I find it ironic that people who worry about privacy post on internet forums.

[snuffy]

I've got plenty to hide. I am a habitual speeder. The world is my racetrack. LOL
Seriously, I do drive fast although not recklessly. I'm safe - no accidents, other than a motorcycle spill on gravel. If an insurance company could monitor my driving habits, they'd drop me and I'd be riding my bicycle everywhere.


Give up privacy? I don't call mileage, speed, and braking big privacy issues. The reason I won't sign up for it is that SF charges a monthly fee that would exceed the 5% discount.

Again fulfilling my duty as Captain Obvious, I find it ironic that people who worry about privacy post on internet forums.


I'd be interested in what are the parameters that are being gathered. They have no way to know what the speed limit is wherever I'm driving. As far as how fast I accelerate, I must be in the minority. Whenever I'm at a stop sign on a 4 lane road in the country, I'm slowest to get up the the speed limit. Gone are the days where I'd burn rubber to get up to speed.

SF? If that's State Farm, the deal I have is the first year is free. After that the cost is about 35 bucks IIRC. That would cancel the 5% savings, but I expect to save more than that because I just don't drive as much anymore.

As far as privacy goes, they've been placing traffic cameras on a lot of the stoplight posts around here lately. Big brother IS watching. I don't care. I behave myself in my old age. Why shouldn't I? Letting off the gas before a stop sign, then gently braking to a stop is easier on the car and gives greater gas mileage. If you're in such a hurry that you have to drive right up to a corner at the speed limit, then jump on the brakes, you should have left earlier.

[garym1a2]

GPS will give location, hence they can google the speed limits.

I'd be interested in what are the parameters that are being gathered. They have no way to know what the speed limit is wherever I'm driving. As far as how fast I accelerate, I must be in the minority. Whenever I'm at a stop sign on a 4 lane road in the country, I'm slowest to get up the the speed limit. Gone are the days where I'd burn rubber to get up to speed.

SF? If that's State Farm, the deal I have is the first year is free. After that the cost is about 35 bucks IIRC. That would cancel the 5% savings, but I expect to save more than that because I just don't drive as much anymore.

As far as privacy goes, they've been placing traffic cameras on a lot of the stoplight posts around here lately. Big brother IS watching. I don't care. I behave myself in my old age. Why shouldn't I? Letting off the gas before a stop sign, then gently braking to a stop is easier on the car and gives greater gas mileage. If you're in such a hurry that you have to drive right up to a corner at the speed limit, then jump on the brakes, you should have left earlier.

[snuffy]

GPS will give location, hence they can google the speed limits.

If they're that darn interested in my driving, they will find that I, like most others, pad the speed limit by 5MPH over, no more. They recently made hwy 41 into an interstate , the speed limit is now 70 MPH. I actually did the 5 over to 75, my 2002 Saturn Vue had no problem doing it, but at what cost? Gas mileage would suffer as well as increased wear. But just doing 70 meant I was getting passed even though I was in the far right lane. I guess I'm just acting my age, and the fact I'm retired and can leave plenty early to get there at a reduced speed.

We still have plenty of 2 lane roads here in central WI. What aggravates me is those that insist on doing exactly 55. They have a bunch of cars behind them, every one of them fuming about the delay they think they're being forced to endure. Fact is if they were able to do the 60-62 all the way to a 50 mile destination, they would only get there 5 minutes sooner. Relax, go with the flow.

The in-drive system has a button for reporting a crash to your agent. It also has a blue-tooth to hook up with your cell phone. Now, if I could just figure out how to configure it! Not that anybody calls me-----.

[smokeywolf]

Snuffy, have you ever heard the expression, "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile"? There lies the danger in giving insurance companies or the government access to your life. This is also one of the goals in obamacare. The government, through documentation, will be right there with you in the doctor's office and in the examination room. This will allow them to decide what kind of care you are entitled to and what limitations they might want to put on that care.

This thread is about a similar goal by the auto insurance companies. They want to be right there in the car with you. If they know that you are routinely exceeding the speed limit by 5 MPH they will use it as a justification for increasing your insurance premiums.

[TXGunNut]

I've been involved in accident investigations where a manufacturer's rep met the accident investigator at the shop and downloaded the info from the vehicle's ECU. Very enlightening. Insurance companies would love to be able to do that and I'm not sure I disagree. Insurance agents and adjusters get lied to every day and other policyholders foot the bill. I could care less about someone monitoring my driving habits, I hope they have plenty of coffee on hand because it's pretty boring. I did more high speed driving than I wanted to in LE emergency and pursuit situations and was actually quite good at it. There's something about a 5k # Crown Vic in a four-wheel drift with lights going and sirens blaring that is like no other driving experience. I also witnessed and sometimes documented situations where a little something went wrong and it went very bad in a big hurry. These days I don't speed, don't text and very seldom talk on my phone while driving. Maybe other folks have a talent for it, I don't so I take it easy. Someday maybe I'll get a discount for that...but by then I'll probably be so old they'll think I shouldn't be driving. Oh, well. ;-)

[smokeywolf]

TXGunNut, the Fury III was also pretty impressive at 3:30 in the morning, going sideways, Christmas tree lit up, responding to call for backup on a felony stop. The only time rolling code wasn't fun was when it was night-time and so foggy you couldn't see your hood ornament.

Recently installed forward and rear facing cameras on the wife's truck. They loop record for 3 minutes and have shaker (G) sensors to protect the recordings if the brakes are applied hard or there is impact.

[MediumCore358]

I've got plenty to hide. I am a habitual speeder. The world is my racetrack. LOL
Seriously, I do drive fast although not recklessly. I'm safe - no accidents, other than a motorcycle spill on gravel. If an insurance company could monitor my driving habits, they'd drop me and I'd be riding my bicycle everywhere.

Lmao!! Same here brother! I even speed past the cops without issues.. could be the bland plain Jane white car though.

[Lead Fred]

My 78 Chevy Burb, barely has electronic ignition, let alone spy equipment.
The cool thing about being old is, I dont have to impress anyone with the rig I drive.
Seems to keep the man off my donkey too

[garym1a2]

Don't worry with software they can automaticlly process all this data, they will know speed, locations, condition of all car parts, even tire pressure. than they can raise your rates for going around corners too fast. Plus how compaies like to sell information, you will start getting calls from the oil change and tire compaies when you get close to needing new tires.
If they're that darn interested in my driving, they will find that I, like most others, pad the speed limit by 5MPH over, no more. They recently made hwy 41 into an interstate , the speed limit is now 70 MPH. I actually did the 5 over to 75, my 2002 Saturn Vue had no problem doing it, but at what cost? Gas mileage would suffer as well as increased wear. But just doing 70 meant I was getting passed even though I was in the far right lane. I guess I'm just acting my age, and the fact I'm retired and can leave plenty early to get there at a reduced speed.

We still have plenty of 2 lane roads here in central WI. What aggravates me is those that insist on doing exactly 55. They have a bunch of cars behind them, every one of them fuming about the delay they think they're being forced to endure. Fact is if they were able to do the 60-62 all the way to a 50 mile destination, they would only get there 5 minutes sooner. Relax, go with the flow.

The in-drive system has a button for reporting a crash to your agent. It also has a blue-tooth to hook up with your cell phone. Now, if I could just figure out how to configure it! Not that anybody calls me-----.

[MaryB]

Pass! I like to corner hard! Like tires yelping hard! Have a few around here that are hairy, one is a 20 degree downgrade off camber right curve going down into the river valley. Posted at 40mph... I typically hit it at 65 and bottom out at 85 when I hit the straight to the bridge curve. Can make the tires howl coming down that one! Blacks marks on the inside edge are rubber!

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Echo,+MN/@44.7073232,-95.3380115,180m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x878a95971b6fbf07:0x906ab bb56ad7de81

[Handloader109]

well, I'll never have to worry about Allstate, they dropped me in the 90's due to too many claims in too short a time with narry a warning. I'll never be in their crappy good hands again.