Case Trimming - .223 - yea or nea

[gordie]

my trimmer always needs adj.. i seem to be chasing "0" alot.

starting to wondering if trimming .223 is worth the effort.

i'm thinking, when its out of spec... toss it. it's cheap.

using it in a bolt action, & when it gets to long, use it one more time for blaster
ammo in a semi-auto.

what do you guys do ?

thank, gordie

[Pipefitter]

How about when it gets out of spec you box them up and send them to me for proper disposal?
I have a new RCBS power trim pro that is just itching for a stress test..

[CastingFool]

I want my crimps to be uniform. Only way I know to achieve that is if brass is all the same length, imo +-.001" shouldn't hurt. BTW, what kind of trimmer do you have? I have an old Herters, that I bought used, and have been using it for 30 some years, and if I take my time to get it adjusted, it stays pretty much the same. Just did over 1k of .223 brass and hardly any difference in length to speak of.

[bhn22]

You must have a lot more disposable income than most. Some 223 brass needs trimming after each firing.

[Garyshome]

If it's that cheap just buy a lot of it trim it once and then throw it my way.

[leadman]

Use the Lee or Lyman trimmer tools with a fixed length case gauge. No adjustment, just check to make sure the case length tool is the correct length after trimming a case. I have had a couple of the Lee gauges that were too short. Even then the trimmed cases would be all the same length.

[waltherboy4040]

Trim it when it needs it.

I think the world's finest trimmers are $75, seems like it would pay for itself.

[cwheel]

Post above nailed it. If you don't have a uniform case length, you can't get a uniform taper crimp. If the crimp isn't exactly the same, different bullet pull and point of impact all other things being equal. I also agree with the +- .001 tolerance, that's what I use as well. I find when I trim LC mil brass, I get about 4 trims out of it before I start to see neck cracks. Trimming for me is done in a drill press with a piloted counter bore with cases clamped in a fixture in a machinist Cardinal speed vise with jaws machined to the case profile, a depth stop set on the drill press spindle. Using this setup to trim makes me wait until I have at least 1000 to do to bother with the setup. Once setup, cases trim very fast and accurate. I can process 8 or more cases this way in the time it takes to do 1 with a Lyman Universal case trimmer. Even if you are not as fussy about the OAL tolerance, don't let them get more than +.005, your groups will open up big time fast.
Chris

[sdcitizen]

I had no idea so many people trim 223 brass, don'think I have ever seen a case that was in danger of being too long to properly chamber. At least in my rifles the end of the chamber is .045 and .056 longer than the max length on a saami drawing.

[Jupiter7]

I check all of them. Most Federal commercial brass is .010 short, I just square them. I trim all the rest to 1.755. You want good results on paper then you need uniform brass and uniform crimp. I also uniform all flash holes and clean primer pockets.

[dudel]

Had no problems since I switched to a Wilson trimmer. I do a fair amount of trimming making 300BO from 223.

[CastingFool]

My experience has been that milsurp is usually about .010"-.020" longer, while Federals are .010" under.

[garym1a2]

I have made some untrimmed that locked up my brother's AR Hard in a class. he end up pulling over 500 rounds to fix them. At $75 the *** is a great trimmer and very fast.


I had no idea so many people trim 223 brass, don'think I have ever seen a case that was in danger of being too long to properly chamber. At least in my rifles the end of the chamber is .045 and .056 longer than the max length on a saami drawing.

[gordie]

thanks for everyone's feed-back...

i think i will check into the "fixed length case gauge" model...

[Swede44mag]

Buy what you want but I have had no problems since I switched to a Wilson trimmer.
I also use Small Base Dies on any brass I buy that is once fired or pickup at the range.

[osteodoc08]

I've used the WFT for thousands of trims and it is fast and fairly consistent so long as your giving consistent pressure but tiring on the hands. I just bought an RCBS universal case prep center and am looking forward to giving it a workout once I get a batch of LC 223 brass processed.

[William Yanda]

Those of you who trim, has your experience for the need to trim varied with whether the loads were near max velocity/pressure or more moderate loadings? 45 ACP is reputed to actually shorten. 35 Remington has the reputation of minimal growth, allegedly because of moderate pressures.

[fouronesix]

Those of you who trim, has your experience for the need to trim varied with whether the loads were near max velocity/pressure or more moderate loadings? 45 ACP is reputed to actually shorten. 35 Remington has the reputation of minimal growth, allegedly because of moderate pressures.

In my experience it varies with the pressure of the load, type of brass, the design of the cartridge and the individual gun.

Usually when fire forming new brass, especially with bottleneck cartridges, the first firing will shorten the case a little. Then, if the cases are not overly resized, they will start to lengthen with each firing.

New brass is usually, by nature and on purpose, a little undersized so they will easily chamber all manner of chambers within that caliber. That first firing expands the case to the chamber. In that process brass to fill the chamber, especially in the upper body/shoulder area, has to come from somewhere. Brass is pulled from both the body and from the neck…. thereby shortening the case. If the brass is not overly resized by the sizing die after that first firing, then the pressure will move or flow the brass forward thus increasing it's length a little with each re-loading and firing.

The phenomenon of shortening at the first firing, is especially evident when fire forming a standard case into an improved case.

[Motor]

gordie. If you are loading for a bolt action rifle why are you full length sizing? I'd be neck only sizing for that puppy which btw means you'll very likely will not have to trim them for many cycles.

Suggestion#2: RCBS X-DIE. Yes they work.

Motor

[rbt50]

I always trim mine on Dillon case trimmer

[Motor]

Those of you who trim, has your experience for the need to trim varied with whether the loads were near max velocity/pressure or more moderate loadings? 45 ACP is reputed to actually shorten. 35 Remington has the reputation of minimal growth, allegedly because of moderate pressures.

The amount that a case grows in length when full length sized is directly related to how much the case was "sized" by the die. If you have a large chamber and are full length sizing to the maximum amount (as in full cam over) then you will see more growth than if you have a minimum spec chamber and are full length sizing.

This is why there is very little growth, if any, when you "neck only" size.

Higher pressure can cause more growth but only because it forces the brass to expand tighter to the chamber wall than say low pressure cast loads. This makes it have to be sized more when being re-sized. The more you reduce the body size and or push the shoulder back the more over all length growth you will get.

The RCBS X-DIE does not allow the flow of material to lengthen the case. I'm not quite sure how it manages this yet without causing problems somewhere else on the case body, but it does.

Motor

[omgb]

I was very fortunate. When a hunting buddy died I got his Dillon case trimmer and a set of 308 and 223 dies for it. I trim all 223 brass and all 3006 brase each time because I like even crimps.

[Rustyleee]

I want my crimps to be uniform. Only way I know to achieve that is if brass is all the same length, imo +-.001" shouldn't hurt. BTW, what kind of trimmer do you have? I have an old Herters, that I bought used, and have been using it for 30 some years, and if I take my time to get it adjusted, it stays pretty much the same. Just did over 1k of .223 brass and hardly any difference in length to speak of.
FWIW I bought a box of Winchester 62 grain .223 from Bass Pro not long ago. When I got them home I noticed that 6 or so of the bullets were seated very deep into the cases. I emailed Winchester and sent them a picture of the rounds in question. I later got a phone call from a rep. They sent a label and sent me a check to cover a new box. During the conversation with the rep I asked if they were having trouble with the crimping on these. He told me they don't crimp that round. Just sayin...

[FISH4BUGS]

my trimmer always needs adj.. i seem to be chasing "0" alot.

starting to wondering if trimming .223 is worth the effort.

i'm thinking, when its out of spec... toss it. it's cheap.

using it in a bolt action, & when it gets to long, use it one more time for blaster
ammo in a semi-auto.

what do you guys do ?

thank, gordie
I really don't feel like blowing up my M16A1 just because I was too lazy to trim the cases. You MUST trim every time to ensure consistency and quality reloads.
I use a Forster with an electric screwdriver adapter (and switch to manual just to vary the routine) and have the chance to inspect each and every piece of brass that I use.
Brass prep is just part of the deal.

[Edward]

Buy a Little Crow trimmer ,my 223 is trimmed accurate/fast ( +15 per min)and 1,000s later all the same !!!!

[Greg S]

If you are using a trimmer that registers off the base and it's not +/- .001 time to look for a new trimmer. I'm on my 4th trimmer and if I had done it right the first time I would have got a Wilson with Sinclair accessories for the money I've spent. Right now I'm running a Foster which is pretty accurrate but on heavy cuts a burr forms on the inside of the case mouth that has to be cleared to get to the final oal. The other I'm running is the Girraud for production in 5.56 and 7.62. This is accurrate but, it registers off the shoulder. The problem with that is on the 3z4 time through the sizing die and the brass starts to work harden, not all shoulders get bumped back consistently which will reflect in the oal after trimming. For just mass production, the Dillon is hard to beat but requires chamfering as a seperate operation.

[mold maker]

I trim only once on 223/556. X dies work, without over working the brass, especially if used in only one chamber.

[Motor]

FWIW I bought a box of Winchester 62 grain .223 from Bass Pro not long ago. When I got them home I noticed that 6 or so of the bullets were seated very deep into the cases. I emailed Winchester and sent them a picture of the rounds in question. I later got a phone call from a rep. They sent a label and sent me a check to cover a new box. During the conversation with the rep I asked if they were having trouble with the crimping on these. He told me they don't crimp that round. Just sayin...

That very well may be true. Almost all mass produced ammo is loaded into brass that HAS the case mouth flaired. This is to aid in manufacturing.

That mouth flair needs to be removed. The result is that the loaded round appears to have been crimped but in reality the "so called crimping" did nothing more than remove the mouth flair.

Just sayin....:)

Motor