Click Bang???

[Babbott213]

Had something funny go on when I was shooting my desert eagle yesterday evening. On my first magazine my last two rounds acted funny. You could hear the hammer strike and then the round would go off with a delay. Almost like when firing a black powder gun when you get that click bang effect. No other rounds did it. These were loaded by me with Federal large magnum pistol primers and filled with Hodgon H110 powder. Not sure of the charge amount but I'd say in between minimum and maximum charge though. I'm on a flight right now and don't have my load info with me. I had actually shot video of this in slow motion and you can sure tell the delay either in slow motion and at regular speed. When I can I'll try to upload it to YouTube tonight and post the link here. Any thoughts?

[Cornbread]

I had that happen with 45 ACP, Unique, and Large Pistol primers, out of a 45 ACP revolver. It turned out to be a bad batch of old primers. Not sure if that is your issue or not but for me it sure was. I was getting fizzle shots like that every couple of rounds with them. I got rid of that batch and put some new CCI large pistol primers in and have never had the problem since.

[JSnover]

Sounds like bad primers to me, too.

[bhn22]

I'd be really interested in knowing what the actual powder charge was, and the bullet type & weight. H110/296 will hangfire under specific circumstances.

[Babbott213]

The powder charge was 23.5 grains of H110. That is pushing a 240 grain JHP. I also used Fedeal Magnum Pistol Primers. I'm working on getting the video loaded on YouTube now.

[Babbott213]

You know, after looking at the video a few times in slow motion, I think I have figured it out. I'm pretty sure that it's a low powder charge on these two. Watching the cases eject from normal sounding rounds the cases were thrown way up and over and these two just did not have the same momentum or throw. I'm pretty good at checking my cases after throwing a powder charge, but when I have a good consistent run I may only check every fifth round or so for weight. Guess I'll start checking that more closely for now own. When I fired the first round that went click bang, I did notice that my bullet didn't even hit target, but hit a pretty good but in front on the ground. But I think that this was from the delayed fire and once the hammer dropped, I let my barrel drop a bit, as I was expecting some barrel lift instead. I've been loading now I guess for three years, and I'm still learning. It's a fun sport and glad this site is hear to learn even more.

[Babbott213]

Here's the video link. http://youtu.be/D_GepzeMUCc

[murf205]

Sounds like bad primers to me, too.

Sounds like H110/296 to me. Well known for being hard to light. Try a NEW batch if CCI magnum primers. I have read where they have much hotter flame temp than any other primers, including Federal.

[Babbott213]

I'll check on that. The Federals are easy for me to get where I'm located so that's what I've been using. The last batch I ran I used Winchester Large Mag primers and I fired a few of them and no problems with those as of yet. I've not used the H110 all that much to date, so I'm still learning with it, but I do know that my Eagle likes it.

[DrCaveman]

Id be surprised about any factory-new primers (magnum especially) failing to properly light a book-load of h110. Your charge weight seems in line with hodgdon's recommendations for that boolit, so unless your reloading setup is being inconsistent, i dont think a light charge is your problem.

You are talking 44 magnum, yes? I rarely use magnum primers, always get great ignition, federal, cci, winchester.

How is your neck tension/crimp? Problems there seem like a distinct possibility

[ebner glocken]

The only time I ever had a "click bang" issue was a few primers being contaminated with case lube. It gets your attention and cause a temporary loss of confidence in your ammo. The things that are supposed to go bang are really scary when they don't do so predictably.

Ebner

[44man]

That is a fine load for a 240 gr.
I can give one explanation to look at, not enough case tension,common with some expanders.
The bullet has moved out some from the higher pressure primer, the powder has moved ahead with the bullet giving more air space, ignition is weakened by increased distance from the flame.
If this keeps up, you better make sure every bullet leaves the gun.
Change to Fed 150 primers and check the tension. CCI 300's work fine too. WW has a slightly reduced pressure over full mags too.
This is typical and is like under loading H110. The 150 does not have the pressure and has plenty of fire. Been using the 150 in the .44 since 1980 and found Hornady dies have the perfect expander, junked out my RCBS dies for other uses.
it is not easy to contaminate a primer. I have poured primers into my hand forever to put in the Lee priming tool. The issue of a bad primer would not even enter my mind, it is mostly the dies used.
The best thing to do with any question is to list every single detail of your process, makes it easier to figure out.
Notice a few don't use a mag primer in the .44, my tests have proven them wrong because the .44 is not large enough to support them. I don't even think of a mag until the .475 up.
Federal has never loaded the .44 with a mag primer. Loading manuals are just wrong.

[Babbott213]

Thanks 44Man and everyone else that had posted. I put a pretty heavy crimp on the cases and I expand them pretty well so the bullet sets on top well before being pushed into place. I'm using the Lee 4pc dies on a Lee single stage press. On the first click bang the thought of a Squib did enter my mind until I seen the dirt fly up out in front, so I knew that the bullet did leave the barrel. On the next on though after I stopped the filming I did remove the barrel and check it as I didn't see where I hit the target nor see the round hit the ground, so before I put in a fresh mag, I did check to make sure that the barrel was clear. I have a couple hundred rounds left, so I'll be shooting these up soon and I'll watch each crimp a little more closely next time. I keep my loading all in order and do one process at a time and transfer each round to a different loading tray through each process. I'll have to have a discussion with my QC guy when I return back home.

[44man]

Thanks 44Man and everyone else that had posted. I put a pretty heavy crimp on the cases and I expand them pretty well so the bullet sets on top well before being pushed into place. I'm using the Lee 4pc dies on a Lee single stage press. On the first click bang the thought of a Squib did enter my mind until I seen the dirt fly up out in front, so I knew that the bullet did leave the barrel. On the next on though after I stopped the filming I did remove the barrel and check it as I didn't see where I hit the target nor see the round hit the ground, so before I put in a fresh mag, I did check to make sure that the barrel was clear. I have a couple hundred rounds left, so I'll be shooting these up soon and I'll watch each crimp a little more closely next time. I keep my loading all in order and do one process at a time and transfer each round to a different loading tray through each process. I'll have to have a discussion with my QC guy when I return back home.
Crimp does NOT help. do not need more then a fold to the bottom of the groove, ONLY to hold under recoil in a revolver. Not an issue with the DE at all. just tension.
I have not used Lee dies because I do not trust them. Lee makes great stuff but I will never use the dies. I have a few like the FCD but they do not work as stated.
I have shot the DE to 1/2" at 50 yards, great but a huge gun. I wish I could afford one.

[Whiterabbit]

ill bet unless every charge was weighed, the last two didn;t meter right for whatever reason, and were 20%-ish light.

[Patrick56]

The same happened to me with a Winchester .458 mag rifle. Loaded with Hornady 350 gr bullets to a moderate level. Fortunately the old army drill had me still keeping the muzzle toward the targets when it went off with a bang. I suppose it was a bad primer.

[Bulldogger]

If you load the same recipe and method next time, and document as suggested, suggest you weigh your loaded rounds and see if there are any outliers. Sounds like a low charge to me. It's easy enough to do.
Bulldogger

[44man]

H110 is too easy to meter but remember that bullet movement acts like a low load.
Too much crimp can also break the tension.
Some primers can push a bullet pretty far into the rifling.
Babbot gave a clue when he said he expands pretty well but that is not the flare that is the problem, it will be expander diameter. Also how deep it expands.
I have been working the .44 since 1956 and even RCBS expanders were wrong, way too loose and long.
I can not give dimension numbers, never could. Never, ever would I run an "M" die in revolver rounds either.
The expander with the Hornady dies only expands about 3/8" deep and lets the bullet expand the rest as it is seated. I can not measure the expander on Hornady dies, it is fixed. But they work as good as my BR dies. yes, I have .44 BR dies. Collar dies with all kinds of collars so an expander is not needed. Just a flare die.
All of you know I can measure seating pressure with revolver loads and sort them. I can't make it work with rifles because of the handle position that is too low.
I shot jacketed for IHMSA and felt each bullet go in different so I worked with a BR die maker and he understood what I told him.
At that time I started primer tests to go along with bullet retention. Results were amazing with me taking 79 out of 80 with a SBH to 200 meters and winning state. Missed the last ram from myself.
Hitting 20 turkeys at 150 meters and 19 rams at 200 wore me out. All due to my understanding the .44.
I have shot many DE's at 50 yards and meters that could hold 1/2" to 1". Everything that works for the revolver also works in the DE. Stinking wonderful gun. A beast does not describe it of course. Thing needs wheels!

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Could the issue be coagulated grease, corrosion, fouling or any other demons in the firing pin channel?

Once I acquired a classic pre-'64 M70 with a lock time about as slow as Babbott213. Turned out all it needed was to remove the firing pin and scrub the big chunks out.

[44man]

Could the issue be coagulated grease, corrosion, fouling or any other demons in the firing pin channel?

Once I acquired a classic pre-'64 M70 with a lock time about as slow as Babbott213. Turned out all it needed was to remove the firing pin and scrub the big chunks out.
Maybe. A primer needs hit with a lot of force.

[murf205]

That's my next thought too. Your DE might not be giving the primer a hard enough smack. Have you got a revolver with a stock hammer spring to try this load in?

[Babbott213]

It only did it with two rounds. All others had zero problems.