Relative Strength of Ruger 327 revolvers

[dilly]

First off: I know the guns are set to handle SAAMI strength and I'm not interested in exceeding normal factory loadings. I do like to know how sturdy my guns are and that's probably the main reason I have so many Rugers.

However, I know the relative strength of these platforms vary pretty wildly.

The guns I know off the top of my head that have been chambered in 327FM are the blackhawk, the GP100, SP101, Single Seven.

I am kind of wondering how strong of a frame that Single Seven 327 Federal Magnum is and where you would put it on this list. Part of me wants to say that single actions can be pretty strong and it might be a pretty sturdy little thing for that size frame, but part of me wants to say that it was originally designed for 22 and they can barely fit this size round in the thing with COAL limitations and frame modifications.

Just don't know what to think... any input?

[Gus Youmans]

Dilly,

Do you want facts or opinion?

Gus Youmans

[dilly]

Well the best way to determine this factually is to load increasingly hot loads in each gun until one of them blows up. The one that blows up with the lowest charge is the weakest. I guess if someone has four revolvers they want to sacrifice, I'd want to know the results.

But I wouldn't ask anyone to do that. I guess there are other inferences that can be made based on other chamberings offered, relative cylinder wall thickness, topstrap thickness, etc. Those are what I was expecting as responses.

[Outpost75]

The bigger, heavier gun, with the most massive cylinder and best supported barrel threads is going to be strongest, presuming equal metallurgy, but any of the guns mentioned are more than amply strong for any sane load.

[376Steyr]

If you aren't planning on blowing up a 327 with overcharges, maybe your question actually is: Of these four models, which would "wear out" first using factory-equivalent loads?"

[psweigle]

I will be following this thread. I too am interested in a ruger in.327fm.

[jrayborn]

In terms of girth, I would rate them like this:

Blackhawk
GP100
SP101
Single Seven


I own all but the blackhawk.

[dilly]

That is interesting. I might've put the GP 100 above the Blackhawk and the single seven above the SP101, but I don't have anything but the SP101 kit model. Your estimate is clearly more educated than mine.

[Green Frog]

FWIW, of all of the Ruger offerings (current and past) I only own the Blackhawk. As the old cowboy said, "She's Hell for stout!" I bought it at the perfect time when the price kinda bottomed out and now I think it will stay in my arsenal as a test mule if nothing else. Then too, the investment value, even as a used example seems to be doing nothing but going up.

As for the OP's question, I would agree with jrayborn's post #7, but say that any one of them should be sufficiently strong for any SAAMI loads, but that the bigger they are, the more "beef" they have and the longer they will take to wear out. JMHO based on calculations and surmise, not actual experience.

Froggie

[dilly]

Now I'm getting interested in just how much affect the barrel length has on the velocities. The 327 for deer thread has raised my expectations of this caliber's abilities.

[Rustyleee]

I think a rifle in the caliber would have great possibilities.

[rhouser]

A tech at Ramshot told me that my limit for loading the 327 mag/113gr gc/enforcer combination for my blackhawk 8-shooter was the chamber length. The tech then stated that the velocity with enforcer would only be limited by the barrel length.

Using my 5.5" barreled BH with a COL that used ALL the cylinder length and loaded to almost 100% density, I chronographed my 113 gr gc load at 1930 fps with the enforcer. I had no ejection issues, no overt pressure signs with the primers. The primers were will flattened but not smeared. The 1930 fps was not a single shot but the avg velocity for the 8 shot string. If you look at the pressure listed in the ramshot guide, it makes the 327 mag cry out for a lever gun to shoot it in (18"+ barrel).

Note that this load cracked like a highpower rifle.

Just my 2 cents. rch

Just my 2 cents
rch

[dragon813gt]

This thread makes me want to set up my SP101 in a rest that's anchored and pull the trigger w/ a string. I'd do it w/ a Single 7 but that's a limited production revolver ;)

I don't know if you'd be able to get enough powder in the case to blow one up. Maybe w/ the really fast burners. But the magnum level powders seem to slow to break one.

[rhouser]

Dragon, I am not a very "risk oriented" reloader. At 65, the adventure of catastrophe is pretty well gone. The loads I have been discussing are ONLY for the BH and definitely NOT for the SP 101.

The following data is extracted from the RAMSHOT website Load Guide for as the Max load for the 327 MAG using RAMSHOT ENFORCER.

For the 115 (L) LC FP the Max Load listed is 12.8 gr 1,492 FPS PRESSURE PSI: 34,930 COL: 1.500.

The extremely low PSI combined with the very short 1.5 COL is what prompted me to "make the call" to Ramshot. The short 1.5 COL is what the tech verified as limiting the max load powder capacity of the RAMSHOT Max load. He said the case could not hold enough enforcer to "over-pressure" the cartridge. Barrel length (and unburned powder) would dictate the final velocity. I really wish my BH 8-Shooter had a 7.5 inch barrel.

With a cartridge that is designed to operate at 45,000 psi, the above 34,930 pressure is very mid-load. Enforcer Itself proved to be very consistent on the way up not spiking at any point. I settled for a load that shoots a 115 gr Cast Performance GC in the 1730 fps range.

I also have a load using a Hornady 90 gr SWC (swaged) with .5 gr of Bullseye for the back yard.

I do love this cartridge.

rch

[dragon813gt]

I'm not risk oriented either. But there is a tiny part of me that wants to blow one up under controlled conditions. Since I don't have the money for "controlled conditions" it will never happen. I'm perfectly happy loading plinkers w/ W231 and mildly warm loads w/ H110. I don't ever load to max.

[rhouser]

Try a grain or 2 of bullseye and a Swaged Hornady wadcutter. No need for a plinking load. This is about the most fun a man can have with his clothes on. In my BH I shoot 32 ACP (has just enough rim), 32 Short, 32 Long, 32 HRM, and 327 Mag. I hate to admit it, but, I also have the dies for reloading each of the above. I own a Marlin 32 HRM that I really think about sending out to have "extended" for the 327 Magnum. Brockelman's out West has done a bunch of them.

32 can be addicting. I blame it all on Ed Harris and his da** bunny loads.

Have a great night. rch

[RJM52]

rhouser...based on your posts about the .327 using Ramshot Enforcer I am trying to find some of that powder now... I was about to buy one of the Single-Sevens when a great deal came up on a custom ordered 6.5" Freedom Arms 97 and grabbed it instead... The boolit I am using is the Accurate Mold 31-120S..

Thanks again for the information..Bob

[Ramjet-SS]

rhouser...based on your posts about the .327 using Ramshot Enforcer I am trying to find some of that powder now... I was about to buy one of the Single-Sevens when a great deal came up on a custom ordered 6.5" Freedom Arms 97 and grabbed it instead... The boolit I am using is the Accurate Mold 31-120S..

Thanks again for the information..Bob

I for one am looking forward to your shooting report with that gun. I load the case with WW296 and a 130 grain Mihec HP GC and will report the velocity from a converted K frame tomorrow. But guessing around 1275-1300 FPS. I do know to shoots very very accurate just need to setup the chronograph.

[Outpost75]

I see the .327 as a rimmed .30 Carbine, which I never figured as a deer gun, but I love the. 44-40 and people don't get excited about it either. Whatever floats your biat.

[wrench man]

The barrel on my 30 Carbine Blackhawk is a little longer than my Single seven, but judging from the boom coming out of the end of the barrel, the 327 is MORE than a rimmed 30 Carbine!

[Ramjet-SS]

143100 ran some the 130 grain Mihec Cast GC HP from my coverted K frame 6" barrel. The load is 10.7 Grains of WW296 with small rifle primer. Averaged 1289 FPS. This load printed very well at 40 yards and hit hard.

[Green Frog]

143100 ran some the 130 grain Mihec Cast GC HP from my coverted K frame 6" barrel. The load is 10.7 Grains of WW296 with small rifle primer. Averaged 1289 FPS. This load printed very well at 40 yards and hit hard.

I'm impressed! Who built your K-327? Is it based on a Model 16-4 or put together from other parts and pieces? I have frequently discussed the building of Project 616, a K-frame stainless based on a Model 66 no dash and using rebored Model 617 barrel (4") and cylinder. I load it with the NOE 314008 bullet (no GC) that runs almost exactly 125 grains with my COWW + 2% Tin alloy. Here's the reference for the project;

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/260686-project-616-a.html

and here is a picture of my finished project;

PS I bought my Blackhawk 8-shooter while waiting for this one to be built... they make a nice pair! ;)

[Ramjet-SS]

Very Nice Green Frog. It was 16-4 (a gun my wife bought me in the early 90s) and the re-clambering was done by Hamilton Bowen and the gun reworked by Gary Reeder. I wanted the barrel to stay longer to take advantage of the potential velocity. The grips are absolutely fantastic. I ran some defensive handgun drills with that gun this morning and was not only surprised at the accuracy but very impressed. The load above is what the sights are regulated for I ran some Gold Dot personal defense factory rounds through the gun but I am far more impressed with the 130 grain HP cast bullet loading of my own.

[rhouser]

Ramjet, the extra barrel length should do nothing but increase your velocity. The Case capacity will be the limiter (at least for me). Please post if you find the same kind of result with this powder. thanks rch

[Green Frog]

Ramjet, the extra barrel length should do nothing but increase your velocity. The Case capacity will be the limiter (at least for me). Please post if you find the same kind of result with this powder. thanks rch

rhouser, with the length of the new FM case, it's not capacity that is the limiting factor, but with a variety of powders I begin to have a concern with pressure. Some of the fast burning powders, if used in case-filling volumes, will get into some pretty scary pressure ranges. This of course gets into the OP's question and explains why I am staying with my K-frame and Blackhawk... I'd love to have all that power and velocity in a J-frame or a Single-whatever, but I'm not sure I really want that pressure in such a small container. Some of my favorite powders/loads display a pretty steep pressure curve, potentially making a revolver into an IED without knowing you are even close. In many ways this is a strange little cartridge and since it doesn't have a very long reloading history nor a very extensive data base, I'm tending to be a little extra-cautious and to "make haste slowly."

Froggie

[rhouser]

Green Frog, NO, NO, NO on using my data or discussion without reading the following:

I am ONLY talking about Ramshot Enforcer, the 327 magnum cartridge, and ONLY in my Blackhawk.

PLEASE DON'T FILL a case with 110, 296 or any fast powder based on ANYTHING that I have said.

Again.... RAMSHOT ENFORCER only in a BLACKHAWK or STRONGER cylinder or frame.

Thanks to all, and stay safe. rch

[Ramjet-SS]

10.7 grains of WW296 small rifle primers gives me just under 1300 FPS with the 130 grain CG HP and is very accurate hits with authority.

[Green Frog]

Green Frog, NO, NO, NO on using my data or discussion without reading the following:

I am ONLY talking about Ramshot Enforcer, the 327 magnum cartridge, and ONLY in my Blackhawk.

PLEASE DON'T FILL a case with 110, 296 or any fast powder based on ANYTHING that I have said.

Again.... RAMSHOT ENFORCER only in a BLACKHAWK or STRONGER cylinder or frame.

Thanks to all, and stay safe. rch

That was the point of my comment. A later post you made in this thread mentioned loading Bullseye and a couple of other powder in the 32 S&W L, IIRC. One of the attractions of the long-for-diameter "boiler room" for the 327 case is that you have the potential to put in a relatively large amount of powder for that bullet size... if you do so with the proper due diligence. Again, the Blackhawk gives me a little extra margin of safety when I go up toward the upper pressure limits in the cartridge. I'm not willing to publish some of the loads I have made up because they pushed the envelope for the K327 and Blackhawk, and I'd hate to have somebody try shooting them through something smaller.

Shoot safe!
Froggie

[rhouser]

Ok, we are in agreement Froggie. Sorry, I just got alarmed. I never want to cause harm to someone by accident.

My point with the bulls eye load and the swaged bullet was that the 327 can also be used to make a very soft mouse-fart load. The only reason I use the full length brass instead of a 32 short or long is that it keeps the bullet out close to the throat. (I also have a bunch of it)

I can edit out the bunny load if you think it is dangerous to people reading this forum. I don't want to be leading someone down the trail to disaster.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm looking on with interest here, given my status as a mid-caliber handgun enthusiast of some duration. I saw that Ruger brought back the 4.2" SP-101 in 327 Federal, and I see one of those as a likely acquisition. Ruger dropped these for a time, I was wondering if some engineering question came up or ?

[Gus Youmans]

9.3

I read a thread at some time in the past that suggested that there were some engineering issues but no specifics were given. I have not experienced any but hardly ever shoot full-house magnum loads out of my .327 SP101s, including one of the original 3" versions. I suspect the real answer is that Ruger was not selling enough to make it profitable. The cartridge was introduced about the time we began to experience ammo and component shortages due to the election of our current president and that certainly did not help get it off to a roaring start. In my opinion the cartridge will always be more popular with bullet casters and reloaders than casual shooters because of the limited variety and cost of the factory ammo that is available. It is forums like this one that have helped keep the cartridge in the forefront; advertising by the gun and ammo makers certainly hasn't helped much, if any.

Gus Youmans

[Ramjet-SS]

Gus

I could not agree more. This cartridge is hand loaders dream and especially a boolit casters dream. The options are vast and the diversity of this cartridge is very impressive.

I suspect they they figured out at 40k plus in pressure one needs to have a very tight barrel to cylinder gap. Or it is very likely gas cutting occurs? Just a guess but that's What I am thinking.

My reworked S&W has .002" gap the gas deposits are minimal. I look at the SP101 in 357 Mag it much more so I wonder what the .327 is?

Just some ideas.

[Green Frog]

My only problem with the small gap is that sometimes I'll get a little buildup of carbon on the cylinder face and the cylinder àctually begins to drag (with hard trigger pull.). A quick cleanup of the deposit and I'm good to go again, but it can be irritating! I'd probably do better with a thousandth or so more.

Froggie

[Ramjet-SS]

I am surprised you have that issue at top pressures that should clean its self. I have not run into that issue with the above load. With the faster burning powders and close to 40,000 it surprises me? But I am shooting GC boolits. Not that should matter for cylinder face fouling.

[Zim]

Froggie,
What lube are you shooting on these? The fouling could be due to the lube?

[Green Frog]

Froggie,
What lube are you shooting on these? The fouling could be due to the lube?

Carnauba Red on my semi-hard cast bullets for more high performance loads and my swaged bullets in "lesser" loads (usually in 32 S&W L brass have that graphite based stuff that Hornady uses. I've yet to measure the BC gap, but it is obviously pretty tight. Because of my habit of shooting random combinations of hot and mild loads, it's hard to really analyze what's going on or to predict when the condition will develop. Admittedly, more organization and scientific analysis would be a good thing! :|


Froggie

[Zim]

Organization can be a good thing. Unfortunately, I have too much fun blasting to get very scientific.

I know unique will leave deposits.

Best wishes!

[Ramjet-SS]

Substitute Universal for Unique and the newer Unique at top end loads will not leave deposited at all. I have been using Bens Lube with great success no leading or deposited and great accuracy and tumble luring is far more tolerable than other forms.