Dillon and Federal Primers

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Folks, A member of my cowboy shooting club just posted a heads-up, that he had called Dillon with a priming problem, and was told that Dillon doesn't want anyone using Federal primers, stating that they're too sensitive to be used safely in Dillon presses, and the entire primer magazine may be set off. This is a new one on me, I know that Lee warns against using Federals(They've got that open primer slide), stating that their use voids any warranty. I've been using SDB's for over twenty years,(I've got three). I've loaded enough ammo to wear out the Delrin bearing surfaces, and have caused what Dillon refers to as "Thumbnails" in the priming bearing surface interfering with the priming operation. I've called them many times over the years, and no mention of primer brand in any of these conversations.
The only time primers brands were ever mentioned, was when I purchased my first SDB, in 10MM., and was having problems seating the primers. The Dillon tech suggested I stop using CCI's as they were hard to seat, and switch to Federals or Winchester.

Sounds to me like this is a legal dept. decision, not engineering. It's my understanding, that during development, the steel shield around the primer tube had been tested to withstand a complete primer set-off .

Has anybody had problems with Federal primer explosions in Dillons, or heard of any? I plan to call Dillon about this on Mon.

Like to wish everybody a Happy Easter.

Morgan

[HeavyMetal]

Lee makes a big stink about primer brands in their tools and insinuates that using a tube primer feed, particularly on a progressive press, is like playing "Russian Rullette" with an Auto pistol!

I think this is 50% competative BS ( remember the feud between RCBS and Lee in the 70's?) and 50% legal BS with a .005% chance of a sensitive primer actually going off.

It does happen, it will happen, BUTwill it leave a radioactive crater in your garage?

Take the usual safety precautions when dealing with primers and any feeding system and just be careful!

[runfiverun]

i think the federal primers are a bit taller, yhey sure give my primer tube filler fits.
and my 550's hang up with them once about every 50 or so.

it is the anvil that is somewhat higher at least on the federals i have

[imashooter2]

Many thousands of revolver competitors use Federal primers to the exclusion of all others since Federal is the only brand that will go bang every time. Many other reloaders use Federal just because. This is simply the legal department limiting Dillon's risk exposure. Carry on with your life as normal.

The only primer magazine explosions I've ever heard of were on 650's. The SDB and 550 system uses a shuttle that seems safer than the 650 system. In the magazine detonations I've heard or read about, the inner tube was toast, the outer shield held fine and the users pants were soiled.

[Lloyd Smale]

I have probably ran over a million federal primers through square deals and 550s without a bit of trouble. My buddy did have two primer detonations with this 650s one with a fed primer and one with a cci. It was admitted operator error trying to force things when they didnt feel right.

[Freightman]

Federal primers and Winchester are the only ones that go bang with my Gaucho's light spring and trigger. The CCI and Remington will miss one every once in a while. I load Federal with LEE equipment.

[Castoff]

I have Dillon Presses and am sorry I ever bought any of them.

I have gone through the "which primer to use" nonsense with Dillon and no matter which brand of primer I was using , it was always the wrong one , according to Dillon.
Same for powders.

The problem with Dillon 650 press primer system is that the primers will partially flip and jam the machine. This then requires a disassembly of the Shell plate and the primer system.
I have heard all the excuses from Dillon I care to hear.

I hired a mechanical engineer to look at their primer system and he concluded the primer disc, which is used to rotate the primers into place, was not close enough to the part over it . This allows the primers to jump when the press is indexed and flips the primers.
Dillon, as always , disavows any knowledge of this.
Finally , in disgust, I asked them to take the 650 press back under their "No BS" guarantee.
Well, I found out that the "NO BS " guarantee is just that---------BS.
They refused to take back the press.
This plus:
1)- a powder charging system------- that by Dillon's own statement-------will only throw a powder charge plus OR minus 1.5 grains
AND
2)- a plastic indexing pawl which breaks at the drop of a hat
has completely disillusioned me with Dillon presses.
For what they charge , I think I should get better products and better customer service.

[Russ in WY]

In fact I just loaded 300 rnds 38 spl with Federal primers this week end with no problems. On the 550 I really find it hard to see how when seating a primer if it did detonate how it would lite off the tube. Totally isolated. I once thought of upgrading to a 650, then got a 2nd 550, & stayed with them. Guess I was lucky. My 2¢. Russ.

[Kraschenbirn]

Don't have a Dillon 650 but DO have an SDB that I switch back and forth between .38 Spl and .45 ACP and a 550 that, these days, runs mostly .44s. (Back when I was shooting sillywhets, I ran all my .41 mags, 7Brs, and 7TCUs on it) Between the two, I've loaded well over 200,000 rounds...ALL with Federal primers...without a single mishap. A friend with a 650 DID have one "incident" but, like Lloyd's buddy, it was apparently "operator error" caused by trying to "crunch" a primer into a military 5.56 case with an unswaged primer pocket.

FWIW...in 20+ years, I've never had cause for complaint about Dillon's warranty/service. Haven't had that many breakdowns but, when I have, it's always been "What's the problem?" and "We'll get the part(s) sent out right away."

Bill

[NVcurmudgeon]

First off, let me say that Dillon has a fantastic warranty. "No BS" means exactly that. My Square deal, purchased in the early eighties has been factory serviced twice and both times was upgraded at no cost to me. Within normal business hours you can talk to a knowledgeable, polite, and helpful technician with a minimal wait on the phone.

It is very gratifying to me to see that others have trouble with Dillon priming systems. For over twenty years I thought that I was Dillon's stupidest customer. Maybe my using both SP and LP priming systems with my three different caliber conversons exacerbates the problems. I load .45 ACP, .44 Magnum, and 9 mm Luger. My troubles with priming are two. I frequently experience flipping of primers as castoff reports. The other, less common problem is that a primer will occasionally turn sideways and get mashed, or completely turn over and be seated backwards. Either condition is fatal to the reason for buying a progressive in the first place. I load my pistol ammunition 500 to 1000 at a time. The frequent clearing of all partially loaded rounds, and fiddling with the priming system has made me believe I can load faster on a single stage press. Well maybe, not quite, but certainly with a lot less lost and ruined primers, spilled powder, occasional powderless rounds, and Navy language. The last lot of .45 ACP I loaded went flawlessly. That was because I removed the priming system entirely, sized and decapped the cases, and removed them without charging at station 2. Then I primed the cases on the RCBS Ram Priming system of my RS3 press. Then I returned the primed cases to the SD at station two for expanding, charging, seating and crimping. This "semi-progressive" system has the advantage of much of the speed of the SD on a good day, without any of its aggravation, wasted components, shop sweeping, or misfires. So far I have resisted the temptation to order a conversion for .38 Special/.357 Magnum. The warranty is great, the "Blue Press" has cute girls (one of them looks like my wife must have about fifteen years before I met her,) but Dillon would be better off redesigning their lousy priming system.

P.S If I have heard, "Use only Federal or Winchester primers." from Dillon techs once I've heard it a dozen times. I began using WW primers only in the SD after the first phone call to Dillon, early in the Reagan administration. Sad experience and a good Starret mike told me there was little difference.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

curmudgeon, For what it's worth, I think I've solved the flipped primer problem(at least mine) I've found, that the primer flips over, not in the press, but in the pickup tube, and is dumped, upside down into the primer magazine, with the rest of the primers.

At the joint between the plastic pickup end, and the aluminum tube, there's just enough clearance for a primer to flip over as you invert the tube to dump it into the magazine. To prevent this, after filling the tube, BEFORE inverting it, I push the last primer up into the tube, against the rest of the primers, with the primer follower, and THEN invert them together, leaving the follower in the pick-up tube as I remove the cotter pin. Never had another inverted primer since I started doing this.
Morgan

[Ron]

I use my Dillon 650 for 38 spec and 9mm and the only problems I have had with the 650 were of my own making., wrong adjustments when changing calibres. I have used nothing but PMC primers and have had no misfires etc.
I know the current Australian IPSC Champion and to the best of my belief he uses nothing but Federal primers because of the light setup of his revolver, again with no reported problems.

[Lloyd Smale]

I own 6 dillon presses and have never had one bit of problem with there warantee. they give me parts and even extras sometimes to keep my down time low. the only thing theyve ever questioned is shell plates that have broke. they understandably want to see the old one to make sure a guy isnt trying to get a free caliber coversion. Ive had about 5050 luck with them and electrical parts. they dont like replaceing things like low primer and powder alarms. But if you stick it in a padded envelope and send it to them they will usually send one back. I did the same thing once with my first dillon tumbler. It gave up the ghost after many years and i just sent it in. I got a new one back. I think they figured if they did nothing they still had to ship my old one back so they had might as well send a new one if they had to pay for shipping. Only real headache i really had with dillon was that *** dillon primer tube filling machine. that thing was a nightmare!! I was using those little 30 dollar frankfort arsenal primer tube fillers before i bought it and they were twice as good as that 250 dollar *** dillon sells. Ive still got one new Frankfort arseonal one in the box buy wear about one out every year and dont know what im going to do when the last one dies! they quit making them and nobody i know of makes a product simular.

[NVcurmudgeon]

curmudgeon, For what it's worth, I think I've solved the flipped primer problem(at least mine) I've found, that the primer flips over, not in the press, but in the pickup tube, and is dumped, upside down into the primer magazine, with the rest of the primers.

At the joint between the plastic pickup end, and the aluminum tube, there's just enough clearance for a primer to flip over as you invert the tube to dump it into the magazine. To prevent this, after filling the tube, BEFORE inverting it, I push the last primer up into the tube, against the rest of the primers, with the primer follower, and THEN invert them together, leaving the follower in the pick-up tube as I remove the cotter pin. Never had another inverted primer since I started doing this.
Morgan

Morgan, I've been pushing the last primer up for years, but your follower trick never occured to me, I'll try it next time.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Folks, I just got off the phone with a tech at Dillon I've been in contact with several times before, and whom I have great confidence in. He said Federals can be "a bit tricky in a 650, but are no problem in a 550 or SDB"( His exact words.), and he was given no instructions to warn people against Federals, even if they're using a 650.
I mentioned that on the SDB, the distance between the primer magazine and the priming position (served by the shuttle) would make it impossible to set off any primers in the magazine, if one were to go off in the priming position. The 550 is about the same, I'd imagine.
I also told him that I had read that the primer magazine shield was more than strong enough to contain any forces generated by the primers going off in the magazine, and he affirmed this, the low primer sensor, might reach the ceiling if it was popped off. I mentioned my friend's experience with the fellow at Dillon who was so emphatic about the dangers, and he was surprised, thought he might have been a new employee.

It's my opinion, that this is a non issue, at least where 550's and SDB's are concerned.

BTW, This week, Dillon replace a spent primer chute, and two old style powder measure springs gratis. Last year, they replaced a defective low primer warning unit, and replied in the negative, when I offered to send the defective one back. Other parts I've received in the past, were a .45LC shell plate, a few sets of wave bearings, and a complete primer feed assembly, all for my SDB's.
No questions asked(well, a few). I seems like a no BS warranty to me.


Morgan

[slughammer]

The problem with Dillon 650 press primer system is that the primers will partially flip and jam the machine. This then requires a disassembly of the Shell plate and the primer system.
I have heard all the excuses from Dillon I care to hear.

I hired a mechanical engineer to look at their primer system and he concluded the primer disc, which is used to rotate the primers into place, was not close enough to the part over it . This allows the primers to jump when the press is indexed and flips the primers.

Morgan gave a good explanation of using the primer follower when flipping the primer tube. I had one or two inverted years ago and have been using this same technique. The fliped and sideways primers came from the transfer process. I have been doing the primer follower trick for years and have not had a flipped primer since starting.

I have 2 complete priming assemblies and have run close to 100K on my machine.

[giz189]

This question does not really concern the use of Federal primers in a Dillon machine, but does concern Federal primers and also CCI. I have not been able to find any Fed's and very few cci's. Mostly I was looking for 215m, 210m and small rifle match. What gives?

[imashooter2]

This question does not really concern the use of Federal primers in a Dillon machine, but does concern Federal primers and also CCI. I have not been able to find any Fed's and very few cci's. Mostly I was looking for 215m, 210m and small rifle match. What gives?

Supply and demand. People are panic buying primers because they are scarce, and they are scarce because people are panic buying them.

[PatMarlin]

Scary thing is I'm really starting to like my LEE classic turret press better than my 550B. No fuss no muss. It just works... :Fire:

[DLCTEX]

I am surprised to hear of priming problems with Dillons. I have heard so much bashing of Lee Loadmaster, primarily aimed at it's priming system, that I just thought Dillons never gave problems or broke any parts. I guess they are fallible after all. I'll keep my Loadmaster and if I need a part it will cost a buck or two. You Dillon guys paid for replacement parts when you bought the unit. LOL, DALE

[Three44s]

Scary thing is I'm really starting to like my LEE classic turret press better than my 550B. No fuss no muss. It just works... :Fire:

........ Well I "reckon" I will put my Dillon envy back on the shelf for a spell and enjoy my Lee Classic Turret some more!!!!!!!

Thanks Pat!

Three 44s

[Dale53]

I HAVE to speak up here. I can't say I have NEVER had a primer feed problem (I occasionally mash one) but all in all, the 550B works just fine with a variety of pistol and rifle cartridges.

Morgan, I'll "jump on" the tip that you have offered up and thank you for it.

I have had few problems with my original 550B but did get a mismachined cartridge plate, once, and a phone call and it was on its way. I have worn a couple of parts to the point that they needed replaced and BINGO they were on their way. The no "BS" warranty has worked for me every time I needed it. I have loaded tens of thousands of rounds on my 550B and just recently added another one so I wouldn't have to change primer sizes. THAT'S what I think of Dillon and their presses!

Now, It is ALWAYS possible to get a "bad" something from any company. That is the nature of the world. I feel badly for anyone who gets a bad product. Fortunately, I haven't had that experience at Dillon other than that one part many years ago - and THAT was rapidly replaced without having to send the part back and wait for two way mail.

I LOVE the fact that EVERY time I have called a real person answers the phone promptly and my questions are answered by a knowledgeable tech. I would compare Dillon to other companies that I have called for help but there is NO comparison - Dillon stands alone.

Dale53

[Boomer Mikey]

I have loaded tens of thousands of rounds on my 550B and just recently added another one so I wouldn't have to change primer sizes.

Dale53

Same here,

Two RL550's and no problems with primers as I still prime and charge by hand. The progressives make sizing, expanding, seating, and crimping a breeze.

I guess I'm just too old fashoned... I want to look in every case charged and feel the primer seat in every cartridge case.

Federal primers have been excellent for me; no shortage here, about 50K on hand.

Boomer

[PatMarlin]

........ Well I "reckon" I will put my Dillon envy back on the shelf for a spell and enjoy my Lee Classic Turret some more!!!!!!!

Thanks Pat!

Three 44s

I truly believe LEE has hit the nail on the head with this one. If you can get past the Primer feed option being plastic (eventhough it works flawlessly), it's got the 550 beat in a lot of ways.

I've got a ton of money in Dillion plates, dies, etc. I don't think I would go as far as selling it, but if it got ripped off, I would be in hog heaven with 2 classic turrets and would not replace the 550.

Those of you dillon owners who still prime by hand, would really like the LEE classic.