.327 for deer

[327ballistician]

Before anyone jumps into a frenzy over this, let me start by saying, this is not a thread asking for advice on the cartridge's use or if this round/gun are good/powerful enough for deer. I am using my Ruger Single Seven 7.5"bbl for deer this fall, am fully confident and capable and require no further opinion on that particular matter.

What I AM trying to say is this. I am on a mission to come up with a load that meets MY criteria for a hunting round. I have chosen mostly 100gr. loadings with the exceptions being a 90gr. Sierra JHC on the low end and a 130gr. Buffalo Bore cast Keith boolit on the high end. I will post all data and results after Thursday when I can hit the range after work. I'll post my loading data as well.

Sierra JHC 90gr.
Badman Bullets 100gr. LRNFP boolit
Rainier Ballistics 100gr. CPHP

(Factory loadings)
Speer GoldDot 100gr. HP
A.E. 100gr JSP
Buffalo Bore 130gr. Cast Keith boolit

My first criteria in order of importance is accuracy. A well placed cruddy projectile is always better than a poorly placed uber magnum unicorn bonded ultra polymer-tipped moly coated rhino bullet, every time in my book. That being said, to the most accurate bullet goes the most points, but not all.

The next criteria is energy. I know full well that my cartridge of choice for this endeavor has a multitude of load ranges to choose from. Whichever load comes out on top for accuracy, to be chosen, must also be in the top end for power level. I'm going to go out on a limb and say minimum of 450ft/lbs @ muzzle.

The bullets will then be tested on water jugs or similar media at ranges from 25-100 yds to test for terminal performance. I have specifically chosen not to test the Hornady XTP because of numerous reports of jacket core separation at .327 velocities.

The bullet/boolit with the best combination of these criteria, will accompany me in the field this fall. The final determining factor in this whole endeavor will hopefully come this fall, with "real world results."

[GoodOlBoy]

Not certain why folks would jump into a frenzy over it. Sounds like you know the limitations of what you are trying to accomplish and plan to work well within them. And as you said accuracy counts for alot. ANYWAY.

If it were me I think I would shy away from anything in a HP. Mainly because I would be concerned with penetration (I know you are planning to test, stuff still happens) even on thin skinned game such as a whitetail deer, and then I would be concerned with what happens when/if you hit bone, etc.

I noticed you left out cast bullets so I will skip that part of the discussion. Have you looked at Semi-jacketed soft points? I haven't checked much into the .327 but I know that a couple of companies offer 100grain soft points in loaded ammo, but I have no idea about components. SJSP are actually my favorite non-cast loadings for 38s and 357s. They perform well, and are accurate, so I don't see why they wouldn't in a 327.

Anyway I will be curious to see what you wind up with and how you do.

GoodOlBoy

[StrawHat]

If it were me, I would look at a good SWC, perhaps something like

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?34945-Catshooters-32-Keith-re-run&highlight=32+Keith

This was an old GB, maybe one of the other produces has adopted the style.

N.O.E. has something similar,

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=170

Kevin

[dougader]

I've tested the little Sierra 90 grain jhc myself, and I wouldn't recommended it for anything more than coyotes with perfect broadside shots. it's designed for the 32 mag and comes apart at 1200 fps in water jugs.

I wish someone made a good jsp for hunting with the 327, preferably at 120 grains or heavier.

I bought some bullets from kaytod on the single actions forum, a cast fn-gc that runs about 121 grains and will hit hard and penetrate deep. I loaded some with blue dot and got so-so results. I'm thinking 2400, AA9, or H110/W296 will give better results.

I look at the sectional density of the 100 grain offerings and it's similar to a 357 bullet of 125 grains, which is a bit light for deer imo.

I've read where a guy shot his deer with a 327 revolver, but his load was Buffalo Bore 32 mag round. Good luck on your deer hunt, and keep us updated! Oh, also read of a guy who shot a hog with a 327 cast bullet and it knocked the oinker down, but his buddy jumped in to pat him on the back so he couldn't get in a 2nd shot before the little ham got up and trotted off.

[taco650]

Having no experience with this caliber, my advice is tempered from everything else I've read HERE. I suggest that if the 130gr SWC Buffalo Bore gives satisfactory accuracy, stick with it. Making two holes with every shot is always better than one IMO and that 130gr SWC looks like it would "bore" right through a leg bone, etc and just keep going.

[runfiverun]

I have used the rcbs 98gr rnfp sized to 313 on deer, in a 7" revolver...... it worked all the way to the dirt.
keep the nose flat, your shot in the right place, and the velocity up in the 1100 fps area....

[327ballistician]

I agree with the hollow point comment, but I wanted to test/try as many options as I can. The only HP I have any real hope for is the Speer GoldDot as they are bonded and perform well (as far as other reviews go) at .327 velocities. I haven't delved into casting my own boolits as of yet, but I'm very interested in the process. Maybe for next year. I do have two cast boolit options that I'm trying, in the 100gr. LRNFP (.314") and the 130gr. Keith Buffalo Bore. The American Eagle 100gr. is a jacketed soft point that I'm hopeful for, but thus far hasn't shown spectacular accuracy in my previous range sessions. I will be shooting the accuracy test at 25yds. from sandbags for all of these rounds. I will be taking Chrono readings as well.

the bullet offerings in .312-.314 are limited and most are designed around lower power cartridges like the .32H&R like dougader said, and the biggest reason I chose to negate testing the Hornady XTP. I love the idea of a good, deep penetrating cast boolit, but as I have stated previously, I have not taken the plunge into casting and casting equipment... yet. So as of right now and this deer season, I am limited to production offerings of loaded ammunition and bullet/boolit choices. I would really like to find a 100gr LRNFP with gas check @.313-.314 that could be launched around 1500-1600fps. That may have to wait until I start casting my own.

as an aside, the 90gr. Sierra will be also considered for a carry round in my SP-101's.

[cainttype]

I think you'll find the Buffalo Bore 130 SWC to be a standout in the penetration category (advantageous in a less than optimum angle), but I might be leary of a "hard-cast" in this diameter because of fears that it wouldn't upset.
If you pursue casting your own in the future, a similar bullet weight in a different (more malleable) alloy may be worth taking a close look at. A good RFN or SWC should wring the most out of the 327's potential for field use.
I look forward to seeing your test results and conclusions.

[Gus Youmans]

327ballistician,

I think Speer still makes a factory 115 grain Gold Dot load. You might want to try that load to have something with which to compare your handloads. I don't have my notes available but remember being impressed with the velocity out of my four inch GP100. Although I don't remember the accuracy, I suspect it would be accurate enough for deer out to 50 yards or so.

Gus Youmans

[dilly]

I don't have a lot of insight into this as I'm not a big hunter myself, but I hope you'll document your journey. My inclination would be to load a heavy for weight cast flat nose bullet as fast as W296 would let me and practice my aim! From what I've read, I've seen people push the heavy bullets almost as fast as the light ones in this caliber for whatever reason.

Please let us know what you settle on. Bullet, alloy, powder, chrono readings, etc. A picture of your big prize buck wouldn't hurt this fall either.

I think there are a lot of people who still need convincing of the 327 and I think sharing your results will help ease that stigma a bit.

[Tom R]

You should try my mold
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-135S-D.png

I can't get the photos from my phone on here...

link to a write up I did on it. With pics

http://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/new-mold-for-the-327-31-135s.228/

[dilly]

Wow that certainly seems like a good option.

[stubert]

Hodgdon's web site shows a max load with a 115 gr. bullet @ 1300 fps. That will only give you 431 Lbs. However, a .45 acp 230 grain @ 850 fps is only 369 lbs. There are not alot of deer that would walk from that. I would think good shot placement would fill your freezer.

[bushog]

Rim Rock Bullets sells the same boolit Buffalo Bore uses for the 130gn loads.

Go over to the singleactions forum and look at some of the loads that are being used over there. There has been extensive load testing by Hoover. You may be able to get a little more velocity from that 130 keith boolit if you work at it.

[bushog]

Here is some good info too..

http://www.gunblast.com/Freedom-Harton327.htm

[Rustyleee]

I was thinking the 327 is close to a .32-20. I wish there was a rifle available for it.

[dougader]

327ballistician,

I think Speer still makes a factory 115 grain Gold Dot load. You might want to try that load to have something with which to compare your handloads. I don't have my notes available but remember being impressed with the velocity out of my four inch GP100. Although I don't remember the accuracy, I suspect it would be accurate enough for deer out to 50 yards or so.

Gus Youmans

No, Speer discontinued it in favor of their 100 grain gdhp. I got an email from them (Speer) yesterday saying it is gone... both as components for reloaders and the loaded ammunition. Stupid move IMO.

I have exactly 47 rounds of that ammo left. Grrr.... and it averages 1506 fps from my 4-5/8" Single Seven. That's 579 ft pounds of muzzle energy. The bullet holds together, too.

Why Speer thought they should go with a lighter bullet is beyond me.

ETA: Tom, I really like your bullet. Try pushing that with W296 and see how it goes.

[327ballistician]

Bushog that article on gunblast was interesting, but wow! They have some powder charges listed that are WAAAAY over published maximums!

[dougader]

These are my numbers with the Todd Corder 120 FNGC boolit:

Cases: Speer 327 FM, once-fired nickel
Bullet: Corder 120 grain FPGC
Powder: 8.5 grains Blue Dot
Primers: CCI 500
7-shot avg: 1283 fps; ES: 73 fps; ME: 439 ft. lbs.

Not so bad, but not quite as good as I had hoped. I loaded some more with 9.0 grains BD, but my Chrony just stopped working after some 24 years of service (and I never shot it once!).

[Cowboy_Dan]

Don't know how much time you have to play with loads before deer season, but I am in the rerun of Miha's 314640. It is a rnfp and I am getting the gc version. It should drop about 125 as a solid and a smidge over 115 as a hollow point "dressed for the party" as they say. If you want to try some, I can send you a pm when it arrives. Should be soon-ish, the blocks are currently being cut.

[HABCAN]

LEE C309-113-F as-cast shoots fine from my .303 Brits........cheap mold for you to try when you get a Round Tuit.

[taco650]

Getting a little off topic but... sounds like the 327 Federal is, more or less, a rimmed version of the 30 Carbine. How many deer have been killed with a 30 Carbine? Probably plenty so can't see why the 327 would be any "less lethal".

[44man]

.44 mag to start! I am afraid you will lose most deer shot with the .32

[sixshot]

I'm shooting a 140 gr. cast HP from my 8 shot 327 Blackhawk & I would not pass on a shot for deer with it at handgun distance. Mine is from a Miha mould with a very long shank & I'm quite sure it would give me a complete pass through on broadside shots. My load with H110 shoots very flat for a 32 caliber eight gun! Bullet placement will get you there.

Dick

[roverboy]

I'm shooting a 140 gr. cast HP from my 8 shot 327 Blackhawk & I would not pass on a shot for deer with it at handgun distance. Mine is from a Miha mould with a very long shank & I'm quite sure it would give me a complete pass through on broadside shots. My load with H110 shoots very flat for a 32 caliber eight gun! Bullet placement will get you there.

Dick

If any boolit load would do it on deer, that one would. A .32 boolit in that weight at good velocity should get-er-done.

[dilly]

I'm shooting a 140 gr. cast HP from my 8 shot 327 Blackhawk & I would not pass on a shot for deer with it at handgun distance. Mine is from a Miha mould with a very long shank & I'm quite sure it would give me a complete pass through on broadside shots. My load with H110 shoots very flat for a 32 caliber eight gun! Bullet placement will get you there.

Dick

Wait... your name is sixshot, but you're posting about your eight shot revolver, in a thread about the OP's seven shot revolver.

What has the world come to!

[44man]

Wait... your name is sixshot, but you're posting about your eight shot revolver, in a thread about the OP's seven shot revolver.

What has the world come to!
GOOD ONE, need more shots!
Don't believe the hoopla of shot "placement" or penetration only. The revolver is sure not a rifle.
So many sad results from .357's on deer but of course you will get opinions but I stay away from them in revolvers for my hunting.
The point is never if you can kill a deer, it is if you recover it and kill it fast. Plant the little boolit on the spine and see if it goes through.
It is getting like hearing about a "wondernine." Yellow brick road. A false wizard at the end.

[dilly]

Well I'm looking forward to hearing your range results after you get back today.

From all the data I've read (don't have a chronograph myself) it seems like bullet weight costs very little in terms of velocity for this caliber in particular for some reason. I think it's because the limiting factor is so often just the amount of powder present rather than the pressure itself.

[327ballistician]

44man,
I do appreciate your input but again like I said originally, no need for opinions on whether or not I should use this cartridge. I am. I just thought some folks would like to hear about it and see some of my findings. Looks like a great day to hit the range! High of 75 and low wind. Can't wait to see some numbers!

[44man]

44man,
I do appreciate your input but again like I said originally, no need for opinions on whether or not I should use this cartridge. I am. I just thought some folks would like to hear about it and see some of my findings. Looks like a great day to hit the range! High of 75 and low wind. Can't wait to see some numbers!
Only your results on deer matter. THAT is what I want to see.
Being a dedicated and confirmed revolver hunter I know what they do. It is up to you now. Do you REALLY want to shoot a deer with it? Is it a stunt?

[smkummer]

Getting a little off topic but... sounds like the 327 Federal is, more or less, a rimmed version of the 30 Carbine. Only if the 327 is fired from a rifle would it get close to the 30 Carbine soft point (1900 FPS with a 110 grain bullet). Its a handgun with the performance of the standard 32-20 fired from a rifle that in its day was advertised as a deer round. Anyway, it would not be a beginners handgun round for deer but with careful shot placement, should work. I wouldn't use it because the few times I did bag a deer with a handgun, they were not ideal situations and I was using a 44 magnum.

[Ed1]

I'm interested in the results too

[quilbilly]

Your 327 is very similar to my 32-20 Contender in its ballistics. I did terminal ballistics tests on my 32/20 some years back with the Lee 113 gr RF-GC at an MV of 1400 FPS (9.4 gr of 2400). The media was soaked compressed phone books. At 30 yards I got 15+" of penetration with good expansion with my alloy. This is certainly good enough to do the job on a deer under 120 pounds but I would want to be very accurate with the shot. Since I muzzle load for deer I can't give you info on that but that load is superbly accurate and deadly in my T/C on coyotes out to 150 yards (more if you use a scope).

[dilly]

I keep checking back looking for a range report.

Patient guy, aren't I?

I think I'm going to run by the indoor range after work today and try some light loads in my 327.

[327ballistician]

Well the range time went really well yesterday with some very surprising results to say the least. Sorry I didn't get any numbers posted yesterday as I was up til 0100, looking for my GF's dog, that decided to run away while we were at the range. I will crunch numbers and get them posted after work today.

44man,
no stunt here. I (and this is my personal opinion) feel that my cartridge choice is fully sufficient for my intended purpose. I'm not looking to impress anyone, or prove anything. I will not go out deer hunting with a .25ACP just to say I can, or because it's legal. I hope I don't in any way come across as being offended or being anything but pleasant towards you. So much is lost in text without tone of voice and facial expressions. Again, I do really appreciate ALL of the input and responses from everyone.

[327ballistician]

A teaser for you guys...142428142429142430

[lefty o]

it will definately do the job. if it were me, my criteria for deer with a 327fed would be a maximum 25yd shot with very good placement! choose your shot carefully, and have fun.

[MT Gianni]

See about the legality of firing into roadkill where you live. Look for through and through penetration, don't bother to autopsy. Failing that see about picking up some pork or beef bones from the butcher and see what happens after shooting through a shoulder of thigh bone. I think a heavy bullet will do fine something at least 115 gr heavy if you pick your shot.

[Jeff Michel]

I had an unfortunate incident where I had to dispatch my horse. American eagle 85 grain, factory. About four feet away, penetrated the skull (forehead), proceeded through the skull and exited the neck about ten inches short of the chest. I didn't bother to do an autopsy, just noticed bleeding from two sights. Based on my experience, I think up to fifty yards you certainly ought to be able to wreck a deer especially if you go with a heavier bullet. Don't try anything fancy. Go for the lungs and wear some good shoes for walking. You'll be just fine

[Fishman]

I have loaded the NOE 115 gr gas checked on top of 10 gr of H110 in the .32 H&R case. Plenty accurate at 25 yds and I wouldn't hesitate to shoot one of our small Texas deer through the ribs at that range. My son dispatched a wounded 250 lb boar with a headshot from his .32 mag last year. He was shooting a 90 gr Seirra hp over a max load of lilgun his Grandpa made for him. Just a quiver and the boar was done.

I think you are on the right track for success with the .327.

[Tom R]

Just to reiterate on my mold. This is what I designed it for. It has a wide meplat and fits the single seven cyl perfectly. I will have to shoot it through the chrony but I think it will hit close to 1400 fps. Pushed with accurate #9. Send me your address I'll send you a few to test.

[Ramjet-SS]

My Mihec mould drops boolits at about 130 grains with a HP and GC. I have no doubt it will do the job on Whitetail if the Hunter is accurate and waits for the right shot. I have Reeder working on a converted S&W revolver for me. But anyhow over goodly dose of WW296 I was getting 1200 FPS from 6" revolver. Cases extracted fine and it was very accurate.

[dilly]

Just to reiterate on my mold. This is what I designed it for. It has a wide meplat and fits the single seven cyl perfectly. I will have to shoot it through the chrony but I think it will hit close to 1400 fps. Pushed with accurate #9. Send me your address I'll send you a few to test.

I'm not doubting your word or anything but that sure seems awfully hot. Where did you get that data? I would love it if I could get those ballistics from my 327 but it also makes me somewhat nervous. That's part of why I made that other thread in the wheelguns forum about the relative strength of 327 revolvers.

Those numbers actually do come pretty close to some 357 loads like was originally touted with this round.

[327ballistician]

Sorry for the long delay guys. The GF's dog finally showed up late Friday night and we headed to the lake for some much needed R&R this weekend. I just finished crunching the numbers and they are as follows... (Most of these loads are following published data, although none seemed to meet the velocity claims.) All data is represented as a record of my testing and should not be used as a guideline for your own loading.

90gr. Sierra JHC, Titegroup powder, new Starline case, CCI BR-4 primer, COAL 1.460"

charge gr. (Vavg) (Vmax) (Max spr) (E ft/lbs)
5.0 1298 1314 38 337
5.1 1314 1319 12 345
5.2 1304 1375 77 340
5.3 1332 1384 109 355
5.4 1386 1408 59 384
5.5 1400 1416 35 392
5.6 1393 1440 127 388
5.7 1409 1458 135 397

COAL 1.500"
5.8 1393 1421 78 388
5.9 1429 1480 89 408
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A.E. Factory 100gr. JSP

(Vavg) (Vmax) (Max spr) (E ft/lbs)
1714 1785 164 652

All shots fired out of the last 150 rds. Had flat primers and sticky extraction. Makes me wonder what's in them...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Buffalo Bore factory 130gr. Cast keith

(Vavg) (Vmax) (Max spr) (E ft/lbs)
1419 1442 54 581
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speer factory 100gr. GoldDot

(Vavg) (Vmax) (Max spr) (E ft/lbs)
1645 1658 21 601
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post 1 of 2

[327ballistician]

100gr. Badman LRNFP, Federal once fired case, W296 powder, CCI BR-4 primer, COAL 1.500"

Charge (gr.) (Vavg) (Vmax) (Max spr) (E ft/lbs)
12.2 1394 1429 85 432
12.3 1392 1431 70 430
12.4 1385 1471 111 426
12.5 1378 1388 24 422
12.6 1396 1422 48 433
12.7 1389 1408 41 428
12.8 1405 1420 29 438
12.9 1404 1422 40 438
13.0 1430 1454 50 454
13.1 1452 1490 68 468

Mild leading near the muzzle above 1380fps.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

100gr. Rainier CP HP, Federal once fired case, W296 powder, CCI BR-4 primer, COAL 1.500"

Charge (gr.) (Vavg) (Vmax) (Max spr) (E ft/lbs.)
12.3 1434 1434 INS-D 457
12.4 1337 1397 92 397
12.5 1253 1345 141 349
12.6 1243 1280 87 343
12.7 1262 1350 143 354
12.8 1273 1351 117 360
12.9 1272 1318 84 359
13.0 1251 1279 55 348
13.1 1305 1385 138 378
13.2 1291 1311 32 370
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had some trouble with the first two loads of the rainier bullets and the crimp, so I lightened the crimp slightly and it appears to be too much. I had a lot of unburnt powder and lack of velocity climb beyond 12.5gr. None of my handloads came anywhere near the factory loads' velocities, although loaded to maximum book charges.

[327ballistician]

142691
From L to R:
100gr. Rainier CPHP
90gr. Sierra JHC
100gr. Badman LRNFP
A.E. 100gr. JSP
Speer 100gr. GoldDot
Buffalo Bore 130gr. Cast Keith

[44man]

Darn, I wish you would get away from ME junk. Some so sad anyway.
NO, I will not tell you to use a popgun for deer. Use the gun for bunnies or rats.

[dilly]

So now that I look at it again it turns out 1400 fps with a 130 gr projectile is not really out of the question, at least for that 7.5 inch barrel.

Those American Eagle rounds were really screaming weren't they? I've never seen data that hot from 327 FM, let alone factory ammunition. I had some of that exact loading and they didn't leave much left of a rabbit that was eating my wife's grandfather's garden, but I don't have a chronograph and had no idea how hot they were.

[dougader]

With the factory Speer 115 grain GDHP load I was getting 1300 fps from a 3" SP101. From my 4-5/8" Single Seven that same load was 1506 fps. That's a big velocity jump for a bit less than 2" increase in barrel length.

[327ballistician]

44man,

what at do you mean by "ME junk"? I'm not familiar with that term. "Muzzle energy?"

[quickdraw66]

Darn, I wish you would get away from ME junk. Some so sad anyway.
NO, I will not tell you to use a popgun for deer. Use the gun for bunnies or rats.

We got your point, you don't think anyone can cleanly take a deer down with anything less than your favorite round. Why are you pressing the issue when the OP clearly said...


Before anyone jumps into a frenzy over this, let me start by saying, this is not a thread asking for advice on the cartridge's use or if this round/gun are good/powerful enough for deer. I am using my Ruger Single Seven 7.5"bbl for deer this fall, am fully confident and capable and require no further opinion on that particular matter.?

[quickdraw66]

Before anyone jumps into a frenzy over this, let me start by saying, this is not a thread asking for advice on the cartridge's use or if this round/gun are good/powerful enough for deer. I am using my Ruger Single Seven 7.5"bbl for deer this fall, am fully confident and capable and require no further opinion on that particular matter.

What I AM trying to say is this. I am on a mission to come up with a load that meets MY criteria for a hunting round. I have chosen mostly 100gr. loadings with the exceptions being a 90gr. Sierra JHC on the low end and a 130gr. Buffalo Bore cast Keith boolit on the high end. I will post all data and results after Thursday when I can hit the range after work. I'll post my loading data as well.

Sierra JHC 90gr.
Badman Bullets 100gr. LRNFP boolit
Rainier Ballistics 100gr. CPHP

(Factory loadings)
Speer GoldDot 100gr. HP
A.E. 100gr JSP
Buffalo Bore 130gr. Cast Keith boolit

My first criteria in order of importance is accuracy. A well placed cruddy projectile is always better than a poorly placed uber magnum unicorn bonded ultra polymer-tipped moly coated rhino bullet, every time in my book. That being said, to the most accurate bullet goes the most points, but not all.

The next criteria is energy. I know full well that my cartridge of choice for this endeavor has a multitude of load ranges to choose from. Whichever load comes out on top for accuracy, to be chosen, must also be in the top end for power level. I'm going to go out on a limb and say minimum of 450ft/lbs @ muzzle.

The bullets will then be tested on water jugs or similar media at ranges from 25-100 yds to test for terminal performance. I have specifically chosen not to test the Hornady XTP because of numerous reports of jacket core separation at .327 velocities.

The bullet/boolit with the best combination of these criteria, will accompany me in the field this fall. The final determining factor in this whole endeavor will hopefully come this fall, with "real world results."

I think you'll do just fine with that round if you keep it within it's limitations. Personally, I'd use a good SWC with it. The sharp corners will cut and tear into the meat as opposed to push through it, and it will make for a quick kill. I believe they make jacketed SWCs too.

[Tom R]

I'm not doubting your word or anything but that sure seems awfully hot. Where did you get that data? I would love it if I could get those ballistics from my 327 but it also makes me somewhat nervous. That's part of why I made that other thread in the wheelguns forum about the relative strength of 327 revolvers.

Those numbers actually do come pretty close to some 357 loads like was originally touted with this round.

I am guessing based off of data published in handloader. I will be working up loads soon but I have had good luck working up to 10 grains of accurate #9.

[327ballistician]

Tom R,
pm sent

[327ballistician]

I just looked through the Speer data and they show all the way up to 14.5 compressed gr. of W296 behind their 100gr. bullet and they state all charges are slightly below the 45,000psi limit.

[44man]

Yes, muzzle energy has nothing to do with boolit performance. Little light boolits lack penetration that is needed. Shoot them very fast and depend on energy figures will make you find out.
Not saying you can't kill a deer with the gun but would you use a nine for deer? Just read where a BG took 14 rounds of nines and kept shooting at the cop until two head shots ended it. Some said the cop was using an ACP but I have not sorted the thread yet. BG was hit in the heart, Kidney and more and was a sieve.
I use only revolvers for deer now and have more then 168 kills with them and know what works.
Just watch me use a .327! I will not hunt deer with a .357 either. Instant drops start with the .475. 420 gr boolit, Not 100 or less.
My opinion is to give it up. I do not condone shooting deer for fun or to prove a point.
Next question will be about a .380 from some fool. Hey, it is larger then a .327!!!!!
I fully expect to see an EXPERT say he dropped a deer at 50 yards with a .25 ACP.
Put the toy away and use what works. I killed thousands of bunnies with a slingshot so would i shoot a deer with one?
.327 for deer? NO, NO. get it?

[white eagle]

every one has differing opinions about what "they" consider usefull
just because I happen not to agree with "their" choice is of little value to them
might be thats all "they"have to hunt with
everyone has to live with the outcome of their decisions when hunting

[Jeff Michel]

Let it go, you made your point. He started out the thread as not to be contentious and said as much.

[44man]

Let it go, you made your point. He started out the thread as not to be contentious and said as much.
It gets that way though. If I did not have a good deer gun, I would not hunt them. Even a .44 mag works different at 20 to 50 yards then at 100+. Deer are stupid tough. Seen some go over 1 mile hit with 300 mags. Dang, seen a woodchuck shot in the guts with a .220 Swift and all the guts were blown out, still made it 50 yards to a hole.
Only have one gun! Sell it and buy one that works. A bunny gun will never be a deer gun even with all those charts.

[Jeff Michel]

If this departs from the original thread please remove it.
Mr. 44,
It will alway boil down to choice. What opinion that you hold to be holy writ, quite possibly be at odds with someone else's experiences. The gentleman in question has decided to harvest a deer using a specific caliber. If that caliber is legal in the state he hunts, I am failing to understand what the consternation that you appear to be harboring is based on other than a strongly held opinion. For my part, I have never shot 168 deer with a pistol, not even one with a 44 Magnum. I have however, filled my last twenty years worth of Ohio tags with a .357 revolver. Last year I used a 77/357. None of these deer required more than the requisite single shot. Did I pick and choose my shots? Yes. Did I pass on long or marginal shots? Yes. My shots have ranged from 35 to 110 yards and I have never recovered a single bullet It is a legal firearm in the state of Ohio, and I extend every effort to harvest game cleanly. And yes, I get a lot of guff from other hunters because I choose not to carry a .500 S&W or a 44 Mag. But I can scarcely be ridiculed based on my results. Deer are not any tougher than any other species I've encountered and a well placed shot where it matters seems to be an effective means to an end. I am not saying this to bait anyone, the entire premise here is to exchange ideas not to find fault because so and so has a differing opinion. I'm glad the both of us has found a caliber that works in our respective applications even though they a different. You have chosen one for specific reasons and I have done the same. Both of us are content, and for my part will leave it at that.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

You might be able to glean some applicable info from this thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?220054-Buck-Kill-with-32-20-ballistics

[Geezer in NH]

I have killed deer with a 22lr. My choice for sport hunting no. 327? it will kill it most times but not all the 32/20 also. ethical not a chance I will be convinced of it. Respect what you want to take.

[327ballistician]

Yes, muzzle energy has nothing to do with boolit performance. Little light boolits lack penetration that is needed. Shoot them very fast and depend on energy figures will make you find out.
Not saying you can't kill a deer with the gun but would you use a nine for deer? Just read where a BG took 14 rounds of nines and kept shooting at the cop until two head shots ended it. Some said the cop was using an ACP but I have not sorted the thread yet. BG was hit in the heart, Kidney and more and was a sieve.
I use only revolvers for deer now and have more then 168 kills with them and know what works.
Just watch me use a .327! I will not hunt deer with a .357 either. Instant drops start with the .475. 420 gr boolit, Not 100 or less.
My opinion is to give it up. I do not condone shooting deer for fun or to prove a point.
Next question will be about a .380 from some fool. Hey, it is larger then a .327!!!!!
I fully expect to see an EXPERT say he dropped a deer at 50 yards with a .25 ACP.
Put the toy away and use what works. I killed thousands of bunnies with a slingshot so would i shoot a deer with one?
.327 for deer? NO, NO. get it?

Its a wonder anyone killed anything before the 30-06 was invented... I would like to further suggest that all law enforcement agencies immediately switch to 454 casull revolvers on account of this 16 shot "BG". In all seriousness though, I appreciate your concern, but it changes nothing. I do not go out and "shoot deer." I go deer hunting, and have for the last 16 years. I am not proving any points or shooting deer for fun. A clean harvest is a grand bonus to an otherwise great day in the wilderness.

I used my 30-30 last year with the load I concocted for my muley and watched him go no more than 20 yards. The shot was at 286 lasered yards btw. I also use a Bear Super Kodiak recurve for elk. I could have easily purchased a whiz bang compound with all the gadgets and been $ ahead, but I chose the recurve anyways. I know my equipment, it's limitations and mine as well. The last thing I wanted when starting this thread was 18 pages of arguing the usage of the cartridge and why. I don't care if anyone else is for or against it. That's not the discussion, and I'd like to keep it that way.


deer are stupid tough.

False. Deer with poor shots into them are stupid tough.


seen some go over 1 mile shot with 300 mags...

Again, ultra magnum power does not make up for poor shot placement.

I'll try to get some of the group sizes measured out, but as for now the most accurate loads were the Speer GoldDot by a bunch, then the A.E. The rest seemed Similar in size.

[327ballistician]

You might be able to glean some applicable info from this thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?220054-Buck-Kill-with-32-20-ballistics

I have actually read that article and was intrigued to say the least.

[quickdraw66]

It gets that way though.

YOU made it that way. The OP has expressed that he does not want this thread to turn into a debate over whether that round will kill a deer or not. It's very clear that nothing you say or do is going to change his mind. Be respectful to the OP and drop the subject.

[Ramjet-SS]

I have a nice 6" converted K frame on its way I cannot wait for its return so I can do some comparative testing with my 120 grain cast HP. I agree with the Op this cartridge will cleanly take a whitetailed deer if used within its limits and the user is capable of putting the bullet in the boiler room. I think the XTP running 1600 FPS from the muzzle would be DRT if the boiler room is hit. Pursue what you will its your choice and frankly I think within a 50 yard range with top loaded well constructed cast or XTP the gun will do it job. Longer barrels I would opt for WW296 or H110.

[327ballistician]

Ramjet-SS,

I have opted to not test the XTP because of lots and lots of reviews showing jacket/core separation above 1400 fps. I am still in the testing stages, but I'm interested to see how some of the bullets perform.

[dilly]

I have a nice 6" converted K frame on its way I cannot wait for its return so I can do some comparative testing with my 120 grain cast HP. I agree with the Op this cartridge will cleanly take a whitetailed deer if used within its limits and the user is capable of putting the bullet in the boiler room. I think the XTP running 1600 FPS from the muzzle would be DRT if the boiler room is hit. Pursue what you will its your choice and frankly I think within a 50 yard range with top loaded well constructed cast or XTP the gun will do it job. Longer barrels I would opt for WW296 or H110.

I hope when it comes you'll make a thread showing us pictures, a description of the conversion, range report etc.

Sounds like a pretty neat little custom gun.

[dougader]

Its a wonder anyone killed anything before the 30-06 was invented...

No kidding.

My great grandfather was poor by most standards and the only rifle he had was an old 25-20. He never lost a deer, and fed his family of 8 with that rifle.

I'm sure you'll do fine within the parameters you've set for the hunt.

I've had people criticize me for taking a mule deer at 400 yards with a 30-06 and handloaded bullets. One shot and it dropped like a stone. I used to shoot DCM matches monthly out to 600 yards, punching paper. It was easy as pie to hit a mule deer square between the shoulder blades at 400. I knew my bullet drop and there was no wind. Easy.

Know your bullet/boolit, know your limitations and skills and apply them well. The old 60's silvertips I loaded for that 400 yard mule deer still gave me about 6-8 ounces of bloodshot meat. Not a good choice for a 50 yard shot, but worked like a charm at 400.

[9.3X62AL]

The usual denunciations from The Usual Suspects concerning use of "marginal" calibers for game-taking and deer hunting. While I don't (yet) own a 327 Federal firearm, I DO own a lot of like and similar arms--30 U.S. Carbine, 32-20 WCF, both calibers in short and long guns. I also have an uber-accurate S&W Model 16-4 in 32 Magnum that will NOT be getting re-cut to 327.

The 327 or its similes is capable to deer harvesting in the hands of a judicious user. Shot selection, specimen size, range limits, and user skill all figure into the mix. My thoughts? Lyman #311316 cast as a Bruce B Softpoint and run at 1350-1400 FPS from the revolver. I have run Lyman #313631 to 1400 FPS from my 16-4 quite a bit, and it will reach out and touch varmints well past 125 yards and still do considerable damage.

[gtgeorge]

Well I am usually on the other side of the fence since all I had for 4 years to hunt with was a 4" .357 and took 6-7 deer each year with it. I lost 1 as well which hurt in more than 1 way since I was unable to work and that was food. Yes I did carry the .357 along on hunts as it or my little pocket 45acp was the only backups. I have used it for a few shots I knew I could make over the years but think the 327 is not enough as the .357 was barely enough and not always enough. Witrh 180gr it worked much better.

If something else is available I would leave it home as I usually do my .357 now that I have a 41mag, 44mag and 45 Colt to use. I have watched this thread and definately would not have led with my feelings but since the ball is on the court I played it.

Using something just because you "can" is the reason we get laws telling us what we "can". If it is all I had and I needed food I would hate to be told NOT to use it. I watched many deer run after being hit with the .357 158gr factory loads with single lung shots etc. Yes the .327 will kill them but too much can go wrong when selecting less than what should be used.

With all said I have shot hundreds of deer wiuth handguns, bows and rifles and even perfect shots from sufficent calibers don't always give the intended result. Some seem you could have hit them with a rock and killed them DRT and others sustained massive damage and ran a long long ways.

Sorry OP for adding my 2cents but I actually do support your right to use what you wish. I don't really care for it though if you have other choices. Good luck if you do and hope it ends with a positive story if you do.

[327ballistician]

So looking at Rimrock bullets' website, they claim that the bullet used by buffalo bore is in fact their 125gr, not the 130 that buffalo bore claims. Curiosity got the better of me and low and behold I found one cartridge that the bullet was seated poorly and had shaved the lead on the side into a neat little crescent. I pulled the bullet and it weighed out (with the shaving) @120.9gr!
seems a bit much to be off by almost 10gr buffalo bore...

That would make the energy level @ muzzle 541ft/lbs instead of 581ft/lbs. still in the acceptable range, but it was one of the worst for accuracy in initial tests.

It was also loaded with 6.8gr of a flattened spherical powder.

[Ramjet-SS]

I have not heard any issues with XTP but that's we are talking.

Like I said I prefer working with cast and my 130 grain cast HP will be my go to bullet for the 327. Any 100-120 grain WFN CG hard cast should work well at the high velocities.

[44man]

With all said I have shot hundreds of deer wiuth handguns, bows and rifles and even perfect shots from sufficent calibers don't always give the intended result. Some seem you could have hit them with a rock and killed them DRT and others sustained massive damage and ran a long long ways. "Quote."
This! I have at least 168 deer kills with revolvers and never made a poor shot. Placement is not all in the end. It is pushed too much. Perfect placement can lose deer as fast as a butt shot. It comes to what the bullet/boolit did and the internal damage. Then a second hole with exit. A light boolit that gives up the ghost in 6" will not feed your family.
I do not believe in ME and velocity. I believe in boolit work when passing through an animal ONLY.
Darn sure you can kill with the .327 but we want to hear about losses at the end of a few seasons. I care less about one deer.
Once I smacked a pheasant with a blunt arrow in the air and he flew into a power line and broke his neck. Would I claim "shot placement"? It is false science. Blow the heart out of a deer and it can make over 100 yards with no blood trail if no exit.
Long ago as an archer I learned a pass through killed faster then a stopped arrow. Arrows found healed in deer, shot in gun season, 2 out of three. 142946 In the chests. Not much different then a stopped boolit. If you think a deer can't live a long time with 6" of arrow inside, you are a fool. Toy boolit, Get back after a few years, I do not want to hear about one deer killed. Accident.

[dougader]

Should we all kneel and bow down, now? Give it a rest already.

[BRobertson]

Should we all kneel and bow down, now? Give it a rest already.

Exactly!!
There is a reason I have him on my ignore list!!

[44man]

Should we all kneel and bow down, now? Give it a rest already.
Not until you prove you know it all. I am still working at it. I can't give anyone the full answer. You do not have any idea how much I work. Maybe you can explain it.
I will not rest until every hunter never loses any animal.
But you must have it all and a good keyboard.
You must be the best hunter on earth.
I have lost too many deer but figured out why. You don't want to know means you should have a Crown. MY KING, I bow to you.
Where did you come from?

[44man]

Exactly!!
There is a reason I have him on my ignore list!!
Means you are so good you have no need to learn.

[quickdraw66]

With all said I have shot hundreds of deer wiuth handguns, bows and rifles and even perfect shots from sufficent calibers don't always give the intended result. Some seem you could have hit them with a rock and killed them DRT and others sustained massive damage and ran a long long ways. "Quote."
This! I have at least 168 deer kills with revolvers and never made a poor shot. Placement is not all in the end. It is pushed too much. Perfect placement can lose deer as fast as a butt shot. It comes to what the bullet/boolit did and the internal damage. Then a second hole with exit. A light boolit that gives up the ghost in 6" will not feed your family.
I do not believe in ME and velocity. I believe in boolit work when passing through an animal ONLY.
Darn sure you can kill with the .327 but we want to hear about losses at the end of a few seasons. I care less about one deer.
Once I smacked a pheasant with a blunt arrow in the air and he flew into a power line and broke his neck. Would I claim "shot placement"? It is false science. Blow the heart out of a deer and it can make over 100 yards with no blood trail if no exit.
Long ago as an archer I learned a pass through killed faster then a stopped arrow. Arrows found healed in deer, shot in gun season, 2 out of three. 142946 In the chests. Not much different then a stopped boolit. If you think a deer can't live a long time with 6" of arrow inside, you are a fool. Toy boolit, Get back after a few years, I do not want to hear about one deer killed. Accident.


Not until you prove you know it all. I am still working at it. I can't give anyone the full answer. You do not have any idea how much I work. Maybe you can explain it.
I will not rest until every hunter never loses any animal.
But you must have it all and a good keyboard.
You must be the best hunter on earth.
I have lost too many deer but figured out why. You don't want to know means you should have a Crown. MY KING, I bow to you.
Where did you come from?


Means you are so good you have no need to learn.

The OP and several others in this thread have asked you to knock it off. Your being disrespectful to the OP, and thinking you can force your opinion on us is doing nothing but making enemies. If you want to start a pissing match, go start your own thread.

[44man]

I have not disrespected the Op Or anyone else. It is facts in the field. Any disrespect for an animal shot without less then lethal right now hurts me. Play with toys to kill means you have no love or respect for wildlife. You are a fool. You should never be allowed to hunt.
Quickdraw66 must be a super hunter.

[quickdraw66]

I have not disrespected the Op Or anyone else. It is facts in the field. Any disrespect for an animal shot without less then lethal right now hurts me. Play with toys to kill means you have no love or respect for wildlife. You are a fool. You should never be allowed to hunt.
Quickdraw66 must be a super hunter.

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