Propane Exchange vs. Fill

[Landshark9025]

Was at the local hardware store yesterday. They are the only place within about 40 min. drive that actually fills the tanks. There are several exchanges around, but not fills. They also offer exchange as does the grocery store in the same plaza. I have been getting my exchanges at the grocery store and they are $18. I asked the guy "How much does it cost to fill a tank?"
"$16 or $17. I think $17."
"And how much for an exchange?"
"I think $18. It's about the same price."
"So what's the difference?"
"Five pounds."
"What?!?!?!"
"The exchange is five pounds light due to shipping. If you get it filled, it's a full tank. At least when we do it. The only reason to do an exchange is if you have an out of date tank."

I had no idea. Has anyone else run into this? I have not weighed them to confirm and since I hadn't had a gas grill in 10 years, I just assumed a "full tank is a full tank".

[Lever-man]

I'm not sure on the exact weight but I know that the exchange tanks contain less gas. I use them on an RV and have noticed that having one "filled" will last me longer.

[762 shooter]

Yes. You are getting 15 lb on an exchange. Read the fine print.

762

[Handloader109]

Some are 16 pounds, if you exchange with major co, you are getting ripped

[rancher1913]

this is why I have a wet leg on one of my tanks, costs me a little over a dollar a gallon to fill a bbq tank.

[pworley1]

Our local dealer will fill a tank for $15.00. He also fills it sitting on a scale so you see what you are buying.

[mold maker]

Ever notice a tank that stops heating (full blast) before it's empty?
I was told it was because some Propane is partly butane, which burns at a lower temp or vaporizes at a different temp.
How do they coexist in the tank without mixing?
There is a local dealer that fills tanks for $14., and he warns you to not store in sunshine or the tank will purge excess propane due to a pressure relief valve. His filled tank sure feel heaver.
My family has 5 propane applications involving 11 tanks. I keep the filled tanks in a shaded shed, where it's handy for everybody. When there are 4 empties I haul them to fill. The cost savings over exchanges is tremendous.

[oneokie]

Yes, exchange tanks only weigh 15 lbs. at the majority of places. Has been that way for years.
At 32 degrees, butane stops vaporizing. Propane has a much lower vapor temperture, ie, below 0 degrees F.
So, depending on the mix ratio between butane and propane, you will notice a difference at different ambient temps and the rate at which you are drawing off the vapors.

[lightman]

That info about the tank fill is good to know. I suspected as much, based on my usage, but really did not know.

[Landshark9025]

Read the fine print.

762

There's an idea. Lol

[MaryB]

Co-op here fills or exchanges. I don't want someones rusty beat up tanks that have sat in the weather for years so I only fill. They don't check dates on tanks and will fill ones with the older connection still!. I no longer have the gas grill that tank went with so it is sitting about 1/4 full. I have been thinking of putting a 1 pound tank filler on it or a propane tee to park my lantern on for power outages and run a hose to the coleman stove if needed. Long as they will keep filling it I may as well use it. $20 to fill here I think, been a year since I filled tanks and i need to drag them in, have lead to smelt.

[clintsfolly]

On your old style tanks write ( welding only) and you can get them filled.

[62chevy]

I get my propane for free. It pays to have a relative that works at a large distributor.

[GoodOlBoy]

we use to get fills done, I don't think we even have a place to do it anymore. Plus every other time we went we had to pay to "upgrade" the tank to another new valve type, another new anti-flo, another new whatever. At least at the exchange I just swap the darned thing.

GoodOlBoy

[Bad Water Bill]

Many years ago if your tank date had expired they pulled the valve inspected the inside and if it was rust free the tank got another 10? years of life.

Then some politician said we need a better valve and suddenly the landfills had millions of tanks now rusting away.

About 5 years later they tried the valve change again but some folks said Not again and also allowed exchanges at many locations.

[avogunner]

I quit exchanging tanks years ago when I figured out there was less. I didn't know it was a shipping issue, I thought I was getting ripped off. Anyway, it's $18 here in VA to fill a tank.

[Tackleberry41]

Guess depends on where you live. Any tractor supply generally fills tanks. Theres usually one in every small town here in rural TN. But you never know about local regulations. When I was in KY I could not get the big 100lbs tanks filled, some local ordinance. You could have 3 of the regualr ones rolling around in the bed of your truck, but was unsafe to have a single 100lbs cyl strapped down.

Its is not exactly in the best interests of the exchange companies to go to the effort to fill the tanks. With the new type valve generally can't 'fill' them anymore anyways, something like 80% cap. I have gotten those types 'filled', the guy would open the little screw valve to fill them that extra little bit, but does sort of defeat the overfill valve design. Again major companies are not going to go to that effort. Their legally full when the overfill valve says so.

[Budzilla 19]

Put a liquid withdrawal on your house propane tank and the associated hardware to fill your particular type of tank, and voila'! You just cut out the middle man. Just my .02 cents.

[jmorris]

Exchange weight is all over the place but none I have been to since they changed the valve (from 5 flute to 3 flute) have been "full".

I fill mine myself (from the 500 gallon tank that supply's my home) until they get close on the date then exchange them.

[mjwcaster]

One issue with filling is the operator skill or lack there of.
I used to use a lot of propane and had a gas station in town fill them (after I changed jobs and couldn't fill them myself).
The girl there set them on the scale and then just filled them as far as they would go.
No clue about weighing them.
One of the tanks was very overfilled, could tell just by picking it up, got it home and it started venting, moved it into the middle of the backyard and just let it vent for several hours.
These tanks were used in my garage, could have been very bad had it started venting in there.

Also in very cold weather my local fill station just couldn't get the gas moving 2 winters ago.
But at the time their tank was probably low, and nobody had propane anywhere, normal exchange location did not have tanks for a month or two.

I may look into having them filled again, need to price it out. Have just been exchanging them at the local grocery store, have to stop there anyway. And I am saving up my empties for their 4th of july sale.

Until the last year or two I didn't use more than 1-2 tanks per season so I didn't care, now I use a bunch at the range in the winter so it may have some cost savings.

Exchange places were great for upgrading all my older style to the newer (but not better IMO) OPD style.

[white eagle]

when I was young man starting out I used to work as a material handler at a
local foundry driving forklift
we use to fill our own tanks never weighed them just filled them
sure was a good thing to have at your disposal

[jmar254]

My refill place gives a free one on the fourth or so refill.

[MediumCore358]

NY state is crazy expensive for tank exchange I couldn't tell you exactly but I'd say double what you are paying. I've been getting tanks filled at the Indian Reservation (native american) for about 2.50 a gallon, 4 gallons per tank also filled on scale it's always over weight. Maybe get a large tank 100lbs? Make it worthwhile to drive to fill

[leeggen]

Most exchanges are 70 to 75 % fill, the new valve is set to stop the filling at 80%. The old style you could actually fill to about 98 %. then while the day warms up it will start venting until it decides to stop at a certain pressure, I don't remember off hand what it was. The government felt we might blow the cities up whilte the gas vented, so that was the change to the new valve system. I think the part that is dumb is you buy by the gallon but fill by weight. Some of the people doing the fill could not figure out the math.
CD

[Rustyleee]

When we built a new house about 9 years ago One thing I wanted was a gas range in the kitchen. To get an in ground gas tank the gas company said we had to have 3 appliances that run on gas. We have a range, a water heater, and a gas grill on the back porch. The gas grill is connected via a quick connect so I can also hook up a turkey fryer if I want. Gas is delivered via a truck and bought by the gallon.

[Sparky141]

I get my tanks filled at the local Co-Op for $11 each so I'm fortunate .

[RoGrrr]

I get my propane tanks filled at the local FLYING J truck stop. Pilot truck stops might also fill them. I think I paid about $3.10 a gallon last month. I smelt my lead with propane and also have an adaptor (available from NORTHERN TOOLS or north somthing-or-other. google it) to fill BernzOMatic bottles for my portable gas grill. The adaptor ($20) has paid for itself many times over in the past 20 years. I put the empty bottle in my freezer in the summer to be able to fill it better. Also, I turn the 20 pound tank upside down to fill the B-O-M bottle with liquid propane.

[Harter66]

We fill everything up the last week of September 6 20# 2 25# 1 20 gal and a 25 gal to go with the house 150 gallon house tank off the truck at the "summer" rate , about 2.00 gal . The exchanges are upwards of $22 . It's only $52 to fill and get the old tanks certified with the new valve .

[Mod42]

Lot of less than accurate information in this.

Exchange tanks are generally filled with 15 LBS of propane, in northern WI the normal price to exchange is between $22.00 and $28.00. The reason for the short fill is because no one reads the label, or cares how expensive it is.

Legally a LP tank has to have an OPD valve, and be refilled on a scale so that it is not over filled. OPD valves have a shutoff to stop the tank from being filled to more than 80% of the tank volume. OPD valves are required on any tank smaller than 60 pound capacity. Labeling a tank for welding only does not change this law, there is one exception that I am aware of. If the tank is for a camper, with special mounting brackets that would not allow the tank to be easily replaced with an OPD equipped valve, you can get a exception letter. That is not to say that there are not places that will fill illegal tanks, but if they get caught, the fines start at about $30,000.

LP expands and contracts with changes in temperature, and can build up a great deal of pressure if overfilled. LP is liquid below minus 45 degrees, and becomes a gas above minus 45. Overfills are dangerous, if the tank starts venting anywhere near an ignition source, the results can be dramatic.

Legally all LP tanks must be transported up-rite and secured in place, this part of the law is frequently ignored with 40 pound and smaller tanks.

The laws are federal for the most part, and are enforced by each states DOT.

The issue with tanks that stop supplying LP before the tank is empty is not because of butane, it is because of water. Liquid propane can contain up to about 5% water, and every time that a tank is refilled a tiny bit of water is added due to humidity. After many years there can be enough water in the tank to stop the flow of LP which is heavier than water. A quick but temporary solution is to shake the tank to break up the water barrier. In the long run the tank will have to be properly purged to evacuate the water. It takes a lot of time to get enough water to stop the flow.

I know these rules because I have an LP filling station, and sell approximately 40,000 gallons of LP each year. At my filling station it costs $13.50 to fill a 20 pound tank, including sales tax.

[dragon813gt]

I fill mine at the local Ace Hardware. Why pay more for less w/ the exchanges? I also get a free fill after buying five. No free exchanges ever so I'm getting an even better deal.

Slightly off topic. But go to Amazon and search for propane tanks. Then read the low rated reviews. I won't spoil the punchline. But let's just say that people are stupid :laugh:

[plainsman456]

I learned to fill bottles when butane was still the gas.

With propane i open the purge valve and when liquid comes out in spurts i consider it full.

As for marking the smaller bottles cutting torch/welding only,i have not had any problem getting them filled at stations.
We use 6 bottles at deer camp and when we feel they are getting low they get to go on a road trip and get filled here at the house.
The bulk tank i have is for use on a tractor and farm use.
I did buy a new bottle when the wife bought a pit but it was because i did not want to give up any of my bottles.

[10 ga]

I ended up getting a PU load (30+) of empty "bottles" about 15 years ago. Kept the good ones and gave away traded a lot of them. Have 15 plus around even now. All the old 5-6-8 star valve handles were initially exchanged and now just get them filled. Cheapest place for me is the membership warehouse retailer (Costco, Sams Club, BJs etc...) we go to. The fill station is at the tire shop and is always $3 to $5 cheaper than anywhere else and they give a full fill. Last I got in past March had 3 fills for #13.50@. That was in Mechanicsville VA. Local gas retailers are about $17 for a fill now and WW has Rhino exchange is $19 cheapest around.

[triggerhappy243]

mod42, thanks for the note of water accumulation in the bbq bottles. always wondered why they slowed down the btu output. I use these for meltin my lead as well as for my weeed burner.

[rosewood]

Lot of less than accurate information in this.

Exchange tanks are generally filled with 15 LBS of propane, in northern WI the normal price to exchange is between $22.00 and $28.00. The reason for the short fill is because no one reads the label, or cares how expensive it is.

Legally a LP tank has to have an OPD valve, and be refilled on a scale so that it is not over filled. OPD valves have a shutoff to stop the tank from being filled to more than 80% of the tank volume. OPD valves are required on any tank smaller than 60 pound capacity. Labeling a tank for welding only does not change this law, there is one exception that I am aware of. If the tank is for a camper, with special mounting brackets that would not allow the tank to be easily replaced with an OPD equipped valve, you can get a exception letter. That is not to say that there are not places that will fill illegal tanks, but if they get caught, the fines start at about $30,000.

LP expands and contracts with changes in temperature, and can build up a great deal of pressure if overfilled. LP is liquid below minus 45 degrees, and becomes a gas above minus 45. Overfills are dangerous, if the tank starts venting anywhere near an ignition source, the results can be dramatic.

Legally all LP tanks must be transported up-rite and secured in place, this part of the law is frequently ignored with 40 pound and smaller tanks.

The laws are federal for the most part, and are enforced by each states DOT.

The issue with tanks that stop supplying LP before the tank is empty is not because of butane, it is because of water. Liquid propane can contain up to about 5% water, and every time that a tank is refilled a tiny bit of water is added due to humidity. After many years there can be enough water in the tank to stop the flow of LP which is heavier than water. A quick but temporary solution is to shake the tank to break up the water barrier. In the long run the tank will have to be properly purged to evacuate the water. It takes a lot of time to get enough water to stop the flow.

I know these rules because I have an LP filling station, and sell approximately 40,000 gallons of LP each year. At my filling station it costs $13.50 to fill a 20 pound tank, including sales tax.

If an exchange tank is filled with 15lbs, what is a fill on spot filled with? If the tank won't take but 80% that is 16 lbs assuming the tank holds exactly 20 lbs completely full. Or will a 20 lb tank hold more than 20 lbs, but is assumed full at 20?

Thanks,

Rosewood

[standles]

Here's some info on the class action suit when suppliers reduced the propane fills from 17 to 15 without telling customers or reducing the price.
http://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/33534-blue-rhino-amerigas-hit-fixed-propane-prices-class-action-lawsuit/

[DougGuy]

It's not that big of a deal to me. The tank is heavy when full, and when they feel light, I take them and get them filled. I may get a couple bucks more gas at Tractor Supply if I take them there to get filled, but it's a few miles up the road and a few miles back as compared to hopping over to Lowe's and exchanging them. Not really profitable to drive 5x farther to save such a small amount.

I -do- know you can't fill a tank to 100% because liquid propane expands and contracts with changes in temperature, and most tanks are considered full when at 80% of liquid capacity to leave room for expansion.

[rosewood]

Found the answer to my own question. Apparently, a tank will hold 20 lbs and that is at 80% fill which implies if you could fill the tank to 100% LP, it would be 25 lbs but that would exceed the safety precautions (and pressure release valve).
http://www.elivermore.com/propane.htm


This is a good thread. Thanks for bringing this up Landshark. I had never heard of this before. I will be doing the math now to see if I refill or exchange in the future.

Ace hardware refills and are the closest thing to me, but I think it is like $18-20 for a refill. Academy sports near my work has exchanges for $15.99. In my ignorance, I thought I was getting a better deal, cleaned up tank and all, but it looks like I was not.

Rosewood

[dragon813gt]

Ace hardware refills and are the closest thing to me, but I think it is like $18-20 for a refill. Academy sports near my work has exchanges for $15.99. In my ignorance, I thought I was getting a better deal, cleaned up tank and all, but it looks like I was not.

Rosewood

Ace will also give you a free refill after buying five. So make sure you figure that into your calculations.

[762 shooter]

I use the 15 lb refill exchanges to get rid of an old type tank and just take the 5 lb hit. Two refill stations near me have been having a propane war and at one time a fill was $3.99 for a 20 lb tank. I think now they have settled on $13/lb. Not bad.

762

[oldfart1956]

Nothing quite so exciting as driving back from True Value on a hot summer day with a fresh filled 20 pounder setting on the passenger side floor of your Toyota Corolla and hearing the wooooshh of propane just as you light up that ciggerret. Danged pressure relief valves. Too lazy to grab a milk crate and set it in the trunk. (where I wouldn't hear it) There are exceptions to the rule of "you can't fix stupid.) Audie...the Oldfart..

[wills]

Years ago, I figured getting refills was comparable to getting the third tank free, if I exchanged.

[nanuk]

up here, if your tank is not empty, they still charge you the max for the fill.

it pays to be very vigilant

[Pinsnscrews]

I have an exchange place that is about 4 blocks from my house (CVS). The nearest (that I would trust) refill station is 30 mins from the house. There are a couple closer, but I see flash fire damage really frequently on their equipment. The other advantage of my exchange place, we frequently get $10 free when you spend $25 coupons, they will include the exchange price in that $25 purchase. So I just make sure to get an exchange at the same time I am picking up my Rx's ;)

[LAGS]

I had my tank filled yesterday.
$11.55 to fill it.
But an exchange was $24.00
And the Exchange seems lighter and doesnt last as long

[cajts]

About 15 years ago I have the appropriate hoses and valves put on my 500 gallon tank. Best money I ever spent. Cost about 100 to have it done and paid for its self very fast. It costs me about 7 to 8 dollars to fill mine now.

[Geezer in NH]

I have to drive 40 miles 1 way to get tanked filled versus 12 miles to get exchange. So what it gets a couple of pounds less.

[SteveS]

I get mine filled at the Ace Hardware store for $14. Exchange is $22.


I have to drive 40 miles 1 way to get tanked filled...

Where the heck do you live?

[timtheartist]

I live in a great neighborhood surrounded by apparently very intelligent people. When the 20 pound tanks are empty they put em out on the curb for the garbage man to pick up. I have not bought a shiny new empty tank in a long time.

Thanks guys for all the fill info.

[possom813]

I only, currently, use propane for an oxy/propane torch.

The wife and I buy storage buildings as a hobby and find tanks every now and again. I had 6 laying around the house from the last year or so and called Walmart to see what it would cost to exchange them, most were the old style valve and I think one may have been converted to an air tank.

But, the one I used for cutting was out, so I figured I'd fill up a couple.

When I called, I was transferred to the garden center and the young man that answered said I was lucky for calling today. They had a promotion going on with their supplier and for every tank exchanged, you got a $10 gift card. Cost $15 to exchange.

So I filled up all 7 tanks for a little over $100 and got $70 in gift cards that filled up the truck and bought a soda.

Still have 6 1/2 tanks full sitting in my storage building.

But, we just bought a house in the country and will be converting from natural gas to propane, and there is a 350 gallon(I believe) tank out there to get filled up, may have to make the T connector for my smaller tanks eventually.

[MarkW]

For whatever reason, the bottle exchange company that services the local Moto Mart has started accepting old style valves for a straight exchange. I've been able to exchange a couple old tanks I still had so I have some spares now (I have a few different items that use 20 lb bottles and it is nice to keep them all hooked up and still have a bottle in reserve). As mentioned, an exchange is usually $20-ish and only 15lbs and getting a bottle filled is about $5 less and 5 lbs more but it is worth it to get some useable bottles. Anyway, I'm sure this isn't the only place doing it so it might pay to check a couple of your local exchange places as well.

[Jedman]

I found a local place today that fills 20 lb. tanks for $7.00 and they give you a full 20 lbs.
Stores that sell them by exchange charge $17 to $18 for a tank with 16 lbs.
the fill price was $10.00 last fall so the price really dropped since then.

Jedman

[sthwestvictoria]

Slightly off topic. But go to Amazon and search for propane tanks. Then read the low rated reviews. I won't spoil the punchline. But let's just say that people are stupid :laugh:
I liked this one:

The tank also has a weld in the middle of it going around the entire circumference. It looks like two small grill bottles welded together. A weld will always be weaker than a solid milled part. Don't know what I was expecting but this wasn't it.

[SeabeeMan]

The only time I exchange is if I somehow end up with a very beat up tank or I find an old one at a garage sale. I've picked up plenty of old style tanks at estate sales in my area and the gas companies won't exchange them without an additional fee. So what is a guy to do? Go to Walmart between 11PM and 5AM when the one person who is in the whole store doesn't know any better.

I've thought about having a wet leg installed to refill my own. Or, since my regulator is on the outside of my house between the garage and the deck on opposite ends, running piping to both of those places to allow things to run off of the bulk tank directly. I rented a house once that had quick connects in 3 different spots on the deck so we could run the grill and patio heater directly off the the bulk tank.

[Geezer in NH]

I get mine filled at the Ace Hardware store for $14. Exchange is $22.



Where the heck do you live?North of the lakes region, closest propane filer is an Aubuchon who is a pain to wait for after burning gas. By the way the closest gas station is NOT in my town. Some in NH is really RURAL

[Geezer in NH]

I get mine filled at the Ace Hardware store for $14. Exchange is $22.


Where the heck do you live?Sandwich closest fill is in Laconia There is a couple of places closer but good luck having the guy that can fill being there at the same time. With the price of gasoline the 20 buck exchange is cheaper.

[SteveS]

Pretty nice area. I used to do some hiking up there. That road up through the notch and over to Waterville Valley still open? I hunted partridge on that road years ago.

Nice out of the way spot.

[Electric88]

I found a local place today that fills 20 lb. tanks for $7.00 and they give you a full 20 lbs.
Stores that sell them by exchange charge $17 to $18 for a tank with 16 lbs.
the fill price was $10.00 last fall so the price really dropped since then.

Jedman

I also found a local place that fills for pretty cheap, though I pay about $9 for a full 20 pounds. Exchanges run between $20 and $30 around here. The local place weighs the refilled tanks on a scale so as not to run into any problems.

[Geezer in NH]

Pretty nice area. I used to do some hiking up there. That road up through the notch and over to Waterville Valley still open? I hunted partridge on that road years ago.

Nice out of the way spot."The Sandwich Notch Road" is still open during the summer and fall about may15th till after deer season great trout fishing in the ponds and brooks too. No camping allowed on it anymore.

[Chris24]

I have a Tractor Supply locally, and they sell propane by the gallon like gasoline. They have a running gauge, so you get a very accurate amount. It hovers around $2.50 a gallon, so I usually fill up for about $10, or a little more if the tank is really low. I've weighed my tanks afterward, and they definitely have more than the prefilled ones that cost twice as much!

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I and a fellow employee were installing a phone system at a LA County water treatment plant back in the 1970s. There was a county inspector on the job. He had a new station wagon in which he had left a propane tank all day. My friend said when the man came off the job to go home he opened the back door of the wagon with his key and when he lowered the door the propane filled car ignited. My friend said it blew the man's clothes off and the poor guy began to run around in circles. It was a very long time before he was back on the job. I noticed he always wore long sleeve shirts after that. Very sad.